The death of the auto enthusiast.

I would say by in large this is true, but then after paying for all their "necessary" experiences the younger generations wonder why they can't afford a home. (Spoken by a millennial who has the ability to say "no" to things to meet savings goals...but I'm probably a boomer at heart.)
Nah, I think the crazy home prices are why people can't afford homes. I live in a small town outside of a state university, and my home gained $120k in value without me doing anything just from 2021 until now. There are shacks in my town on 1/4 acre with mold in the ceiling selling for $350k.
 
There was a saying GenX and older pay for things and Millenials and younger pay for experiences.

They probably pay more for kitchen appliances, vacations, eating out, gym membership and classes than cars and stereos.

Millennials pay for experiences because they can barely afford their house payments. Easier to go a few places and get out of the negative media and toxic social media. I would want to get away too….

And since Gen X is behind in retirement ( average about 40% behind) and the “old” folks about to get slapped with some more health care cost (need more “shareholder value” ), I’m pretty sure I’m they should not be spending too much either.

Goal here is to live below my means until I pretty much die since one can’t really plan for all these crazy costs anymore. I’ve had to watch a friend from being well off and smart with money to broke over a bout with cancer…..
 
I dunno. I feel like it's one of the best times to be an auto enthusiast. You have so much information at your fingertips. In the past you didn't have a choice but to learn from someone close to you or learning by your own mistakes. Now you have thousands of teachers via the internet.

The only problem is everything is so expensive, and cars are only getting moreso.

For anyone looking for a good enthusiast magazine, Grassroots Motorports produces one. It's the only one I subscribe to.


Lots of info, no money for anything. YouTube helps huge just to show folks how to fix their stuff….
 
All you mention are still normal here. Plenty of people on my street wrenching, washing, and mowing. Might just be a small town Midwest thing though. I live in a town of 16k people so that may be small to many on here.

I know, some posters have turned this into another "kids these days" thread as seems to happen often, but it's also based a lot on their own very limited world and I'll go out on a limb and say a LOT of pre-conceived and unshakable biases.

For the record, I am 35, and I mow and do the vast majority of our car repairs. I gave up oil changes on my wife's new(ish) Atlas because I found out she has it for free for the first 30K(after I'd already done the first one myself...). BTW, I also have a bit of a hobby now of repairing/restoring old lawn mowers(Lawn Boys specifically). I don't wash cars at home mostly because, for reasons unclear to me, our house doesn't have an outside spigot, but I can honestly do better going to the car wash stalls up the street(I take my own soap and other cleaning supplies, but like their pressure washers). I do generally wax at home. Hooking up a water hose for the times I really need it, like cleaning the gutters, is a "fun" affair of unhooking the washing machine and depending on where I need it sometimes disconnecting the dryer vent to run it out there.

Looking around us at our neighbors-

On one side we have a mid-50s single lady who was always active outside up until about two years ago, but a back injury and surgery killed most of that for her(I mowed for a year for her, but had to bow out-between a 1-year old and my wife and I both working full time, finding the time to do ours is hard enough).

Neighbor on the other side is a 50s couple who are always out mowing and washing their cars.

On down is a couple probably a few years older than my wife and I. He has a few Camaros of different ages and some other old vehicles that he's always tinkering with. A street behind us, there's a young guy(I'd guess late teens or early 20s) who always has another interesting pile of rust that he's drug home and is tinkering with. I've seen him with a few different 70s pickups and some other odds and ends-I doubt anything much newer than 1980. There's no mistaking him, either, as he considers mufflers optional and anything more than a glasspack too restrictive.

I have a lot of hobbies, and am a collector at whatever I do. One of the things that's really surprised me is the number of fairly young people who I will connect with over hobbies and who know a LOT. I've collected American pocket watches for about 15 years now, and unfortunately the quality of information I've seen shared on Facebook has dropped as compared to message boards and the like, although a lot of the really bad/wrong information I see comes from the old guys who never bothered to buy anything more detailed than the big price guide(which is overall a terrible reference) and think that makes them an expert. A few months ago, I bought a sort of rare 1960s Nikon lens from a guy on Ebay and ended up talking to him a lot and doing a lot more trading. He's in his 20s, is SUPER into early Nikon Fs, and has sold me some great pieces from 1959/1960(the first year of the Nikon F). The interest is out there, and honestly I find that for people who are serious about their chose collecting, the internet has on the whole improved the level of research and scholarship in those areas.
 
Millennials pay for experiences because they can barely afford their house payments. Easier to go a few places and get out of the negative media and toxic social media. I would want to get away too….

And since Gen X is behind in retirement ( average about 40% behind) and the “old” folks about to get slapped with some more health care cost (need more “shareholder value” ), I’m pretty sure I’m they should not be spending too much either.

Goal here is to live below my means until I pretty much die since one can’t really plan for all these crazy costs anymore. I’ve had to watch a friend from being well off and smart with money to broke over a bout with cancer…..
What was his Health Insurance Situation?
 
What's the average age of those "wrenching"? What's the average of the vehicles they are working on?
I’d have to say in the 20s and 10-20 year old cars. By wrenching I don’t just mean working on them. Modifying as well. There’s some pretty cool tuner cars here. Some are even older Audis and BMWs. I’m pretty sure most are younger than me if not also under 30. I’m 39.
 
With distracted driving at an all time high-I don't understand anybody who would want to ride a motorcycle.
But that's just me! Riding one in Utah is a death wish....
I sold mine after the third or fourth time of nearly being squashed by an SUV or one ton pickup pulling a construction trailer. Nobody's paying any attention anymore, and the motorcyclist will always get the short end of the stick. I'm not owning a motorcycle so I can sit around and look at it like other people do. I bought it to ride it, but idiots have made that impossible.
 
Millennials pay for experiences because they can barely afford their house payments. Easier to go a few places and get out of the negative media and toxic social media. I would want to get away too….

And since Gen X is behind in retirement ( average about 40% behind) and the “old” folks about to get slapped with some more health care cost (need more “shareholder value” ), I’m pretty sure I’m they should not be spending too much either.

Goal here is to live below my means until I pretty much die since one can’t really plan for all these crazy costs anymore. I’ve had to watch a friend from being well off and smart with money to broke over a bout with cancer…..
What was his Health Insurance Situation?
Had it through his employer- seems there was some things that the plan refused to cover…..
Usually Cancer isn't one of them. I do understand that most people who file for bankruptcy due to Medical issues do have insurance. It would be interesting to have further details. But that isn't going to happen here.
 
Millennials pay for experiences because they can barely afford their house payments. Easier to go a few places and get out of the negative media and toxic social media. I would want to get away too….

And since Gen X is behind in retirement ( average about 40% behind) and the “old” folks about to get slapped with some more health care cost (need more “shareholder value” ), I’m pretty sure I’m they should not be spending too much either.

Goal here is to live below my means until I pretty much die since one can’t really plan for all these crazy costs anymore. I’ve had to watch a friend from being well off and smart with money to broke over a bout with cancer…..
Maybe, maybe not. I know a few Millennials who make 400-500k and they like things in a different ways than the older people. They know everything has a cost of ownership per year or per miles, instead of you buy and own something forever. To them nothing last forever, probably because they grow up in the age of planned obsolescence watching appliances and cars better replaced than fixed, or they see nicer things coming along all the time and things just depreciate, better sold to someone else, than repaired or modded.

Also let's not forget these days nothing last forever. Marriage, homes, cars, etc. You can buy the most durable furniture to last 100 years and then your wife say she hates it, and you have to replace it, or you two divorce and you have to sell it to move to an apartment with roommates. Modding a car? all it take is one hit and your effort of a couple years would be down the drain and not worth repairing. Many just don't want to take that risk and would just buy a car as it was designed and drive it, trade it in when they need something different instead.
 
Even with “ coverqge “ for cancer….

The percentage what insurance pays and what’s left over can still bankrupt someone very easily.

And “Cadillac” plans are exceedingly hard to come by now…
Yea-that's true. But I wonder how many that have serious illness causes them to go broke? 66% site medical bills of the cause of bankruptcy. But how many were able to pay or had adequate insurance that didn't need to file? Out of all serious medical issues? All I am saying is there are several areas that one needs to consider to keep their financial house in order. If your employer has a poor plan-you need secondary insurance.

But many always fall in to the trap-I'm not getting sick, I'm not getting in to an automobile accident, etc.
 
Yea-that's true. But I wonder how many that have serious illness causes them to go broke? 66% site medical bills of the cause of bankruptcy. But how many were able to pay or had adequate insurance that didn't need to file? Out of all serious medical issues? All I am saying is there are several areas that one needs to consider to keep their financial house in order. If your employer has a poor plan-you need secondary insurance.

But many always fall in to the trap-I'm not getting sick, I'm not getting in to an automobile accident, etc.

I don't know what's considered a "Cadillac plan" anymore, but for covered in-network services I pay 20% up to the maximum out-of-pocket, which is $3K/year. I had a small operation this past summer(outpatient), billed I think at $40K between all the bits and pieces before insurance negotiated, and my obligation ended up being a little over $2K.

Of course the other side of that would be extended time off if I needed it. I've been with my employer 4 years now(started 2020), and we get credited 10 sick days every calendar year, no limit on accrual. I've only taken sporadic sick days, aside from when my son was born and I took 3 weeks(my supervisor is still unhappy about me doing that, but that's another discussion). I have around 30 days in the bank now, or about 6 work weeks.

If something required that I take all my available time off-that includes my 2 personal days a year(max accrual 4)-and then more I'd probably be in trouble if my wife weren't able to help me. If I went into unpaid leave status, I'd be responsible for all my health insurance premiums, which amount to about $800/month. My regular share is $120/month, so that would be a big shock along with trying to pay any related medical bills plus regular expenses.

Plus, don't forget that if you need to take extended time off, if your employer is covered by FMLA and you're taking leave under that, they are only required to grant you 12 weeks/12 months(which as I understand could be either a defined calendar year or a rolling 12 month period) and can let you go after that. You can keep your health insurance for another 12? months under COBRA, but there again that's probably going to be a big chunk of money for a good plan.

So I can see how a person with a high steady income could easily end up bankrupt if they suddenly found themselves unable to work due to ongoing medical issues with expensive bills, regardless of how good their insurance was before.
 
Even with “ coverqge “ for cancer….

The percentage what insurance pays and what’s left over can still bankrupt someone very easily.

And “Cadillac” plans are exceedingly hard to come by now…
My mom went through breast cancer, and even being on my father's state insurance it was crazy to me how many things were not covered. She is in remission now, but that whole experience taught us just how terrible our medical system is and how important it is for you to have someone to be an advocate on your behalf.
 
I sold mine after the third or fourth time of nearly being squashed by an SUV or one ton pickup pulling a construction trailer. Nobody's paying any attention anymore, and the motorcyclist will always get the short end of the stick. I'm not owning a motorcycle so I can sit around and look at it like other people do. I bought it to ride it, but idiots have made that impossible.
I rode dirt bikes for years and always thought about getting a road bike. A few of my dirt bike friends had road bikes, and they all sold them before they hit the 3 year mark. Each one of them said never again and the enjoyment they got from riding just wasn't worth the insane close calls they had with other drivers. One of my friends hit 2 deer in one year. My boss actually rides almost daily in the summer time with a short commute, but he has one of those protective inflatable suits that is bright green and you can see it from 5 miles away. My Wrangler is my motorcycle.
 
It partially depends on the environment children are raised in… I had nearly given up on my son being interested in cars. Most of his time was spent computer gaming with friends. Now that he’s nearing 13 and within a stone’s throw of driving age, he talks about cars all the time. He was really bummed out when a potential daily driver first car for $1000 didn’t pan out (1982 Lincoln Mark VI sedan that turned out to have a very major oil leak). He also looks on Facebook Marketplace all the time for inexpensive potential powertrain combos to put in his grandpa’s Model A 5-window coupe (which he will inherit), and has been trying to convince me to buy a 1958 Cadillac restoration project being sold by an acquaintance of my FIL at a bargain price (but a lot of work) as a father/son project. His tastes in cars actually run older than mine. There will still be car guys, just not nearly as many with vehicles becoming less and less owner serviceable. Thankfully online communities exist so the few can communicate.
 
I know, some posters have turned this into another "kids these days" thread as seems to happen often, but it's also based a lot on their own very limited world and I'll go out on a limb and say a LOT of pre-conceived and unshakable biases.

For the record, I am 35, and I mow and do the vast majority of our car repairs. I gave up oil changes on my wife's new(ish) Atlas because I found out she has it for free for the first 30K(after I'd already done the first one myself...). BTW, I also have a bit of a hobby now of repairing/restoring old lawn mowers(Lawn Boys specifically). I don't wash cars at home mostly because, for reasons unclear to me, our house doesn't have an outside spigot, but I can honestly do better going to the car wash stalls up the street(I take my own soap and other cleaning supplies, but like their pressure washers). I do generally wax at home. Hooking up a water hose for the times I really need it, like cleaning the gutters, is a "fun" affair of unhooking the washing machine and depending on where I need it sometimes disconnecting the dryer vent to run it out there.

Looking around us at our neighbors-

On one side we have a mid-50s single lady who was always active outside up until about two years ago, but a back injury and surgery killed most of that for her(I mowed for a year for her, but had to bow out-between a 1-year old and my wife and I both working full time, finding the time to do ours is hard enough).

Neighbor on the other side is a 50s couple who are always out mowing and washing their cars.

On down is a couple probably a few years older than my wife and I. He has a few Camaros of different ages and some other old vehicles that he's always tinkering with. A street behind us, there's a young guy(I'd guess late teens or early 20s) who always has another interesting pile of rust that he's drug home and is tinkering with. I've seen him with a few different 70s pickups and some other odds and ends-I doubt anything much newer than 1980. There's no mistaking him, either, as he considers mufflers optional and anything more than a glasspack too restrictive.

I have a lot of hobbies, and am a collector at whatever I do. One of the things that's really surprised me is the number of fairly young people who I will connect with over hobbies and who know a LOT. I've collected American pocket watches for about 15 years now, and unfortunately the quality of information I've seen shared on Facebook has dropped as compared to message boards and the like, although a lot of the really bad/wrong information I see comes from the old guys who never bothered to buy anything more detailed than the big price guide(which is overall a terrible reference) and think that makes them an expert. A few months ago, I bought a sort of rare 1960s Nikon lens from a guy on Ebay and ended up talking to him a lot and doing a lot more trading. He's in his 20s, is SUPER into early Nikon Fs, and has sold me some great pieces from 1959/1960(the first year of the Nikon F). The interest is out there, and honestly I find that for people who are serious about their chose collecting, the internet has on the whole improved the level of research and scholarship in those areas.
Wife and I are 51 and we've lived in our home for 24 years. I live in a 180 unit subdivision and of the 10 or so units I can see out my front door until 5 yrs ago I was 1 of 2 people who ever washed their car in their driveway. The other neighbor had a 535d and since he moved away I've been the only one who washes their car. I never see people working on their cars but frankly we don't have a lot of room with our 1-car garages. For years I yearned to do things I used to do prior to getting married but I just don't have the room.

I'm sure in the outer suburbs it's a little different with larger garages and longer/wider driveways.
 
Maybe, maybe not. I know a few Millennials who make 400-500k and they like things in a different ways than the older people. They know everything has a cost of ownership per year or per miles, instead of you buy and own something forever. To them nothing last forever, probably because they grow up in the age of planned obsolescence watching appliances and cars better replaced than fixed, or they see nicer things coming along all the time and things just depreciate, better sold to someone else, than repaired or modded.

Also let's not forget these days nothing last forever. Marriage, homes, cars, etc. You can buy the most durable furniture to last 100 years and then your wife say she hates it, and you have to replace it, or you two divorce and you have to sell it to move to an apartment with roommates. Modding a car? all it take is one hit and your effort of a couple years would be down the drain and not worth repairing. Many just don't want to take that risk and would just buy a car as it was designed and drive it, trade it in when they need something different instead.

True. And I know one as well. You are always going to find folks that do not fit the mold. My computer obsessed son in the last year or so and found a love for cars, new and old. I’ve never been asked so many questions, lol. And at the moment, he is the only kid I know in his age group right now.

It’s been almost 30 years since stuff really started to degrade in quality. Sad part now is companies don’t even bother to care. Just need much larger “shareholder value” now. And I agree with everything else…..and it will never change.

And there is a reason why “modding” is expensive hobby- it’s never cheap to learn how to do new/different things. Or why not to do it… ;-)
 
True. And I know one as well. You are always going to find folks that do not fit the mold. My computer obsessed son in the last year or so and found a love for cars, new and old. I’ve never been asked so many questions, lol. And at the moment, he is the only kid I know in his age group right now.

It’s been almost 30 years since stuff really started to degrade in quality. Sad part now is companies don’t even bother to care. Just need much larger “shareholder value” now. And I agree with everything else…..and it will never change.

And there is a reason why “modding” is expensive hobby- it’s never cheap to learn how to do new/different things. Or why not to do it… ;-)
There used to be lots of low hanging fruits that manufacturer don't bother. Now they took all of them already (as I mentioned about Skyactiv earlier). Any sort of mod will just trigger a CEL and you will get engine into safe mode doing worse. Anything you mod would likely fail smog, and manufacturer is using every trick to met CAFE.

I know we should celebrate it as a success, as we already get everything, but in a way it took the joy out of any hobby: everything is done for you if you open your wallet, instead of DIY.
 
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