TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives

[JohnBrowning]

I want to point out that Bob's motorrized machine is almost identical tot he display units at Autozone pitching Luccas. The only difference is tht a motor is spining the gears instead of a hand crank. I also want to point out that this machine would cost you a lot more then $20 to build. Electric motors are not cheap! I belive we have some not so great UOA on this site some place of motor oil with Lucas in it. I use their their Fuel Treatment and have used Lucas in manualy transmission when the wearings were going south to extend their life but would not put it in anything that was in proper working order.

Oh, I forgot to mention the ratio thing. Lucas claims their product will climb the gears at 20% ratio. In order to get the proper ratio he added until the product performed as claimed by manufacturer. So by defualt either the ration was close to 20% or Lucas is not accurate with their product claims. When was the last time you had a customer compute the exact amount of Lucas he need to add to arive at 20%? DOes the staff at Autozone do this for them ? How many UOA have you done on your vechiles useing Lucas?

 

[TitaniumGT]

figuring out 20% isnt brain surgury.. say a car takes 5 qts of oil, hmm well, 4 qts oil and 1 qt Lucas. i wont degrade anyone with the math.

i beg to differ on the "type" of customers Autozone has.. i also work there as a Parts Manager.. I make it a point to know the stuff I sell as best as I can, BITOG.com has made that easier.

but many of the customers i get on a regular basis are very picky about what they purchase, often times testing and doing research of their own.

i had one guy come in and demanded to scrounge through my supply of Castrol oil looking for GC.. and then he got upset when he didnt find any and made blames that it was my fault.. point is, he was just picky and stubborn as you, me, or anyone else here would be.

 

[MY Z ROCS]

Bob,
Not that I am arguing the point, but I do have a few questions on the tests. The answers may or may not reinforce what you have already said.
First of all, I was wondering what speeds the gears were turning at? Anything close to what would be considered reasonable inside a normal rear end ? I am sure that ANY oil put into a blender on puree would tend to exhibit the same discolored characteristics and air entrapment. Just want to make sure the tests was conducted under reasonable conditions since the speeds were not specified. Maybe the gears are being turned at much higher speeds than Lucas ever intended their oil additive to be operated under ?
Also, for the engine oil test. Like what was addressed earlier, there are not many gears being driven around inside of an engine. And although somone mentioned the oil pump, that is a system that is completely submersed in the fluid, so air entrapment seams unlikely. I believe this would be called cavitation and is bad in ANY pump let alone an oil pump inside an engine. Wouldn't it be a more representative test to see what happened to the oil if the gears were submerged, or if a wet sump system were used ??

Like I said, I do not disagree about the use of additives, just playing Devils Advocate to get the questions and their answers out there.

Thanks

 

[Bill Morris]

What about them gear test at Napa with the Lucas Oil Additive comparing with regula din oil. It doesn't turn all white like the test you showing. Hmmmm I don't know...just curious..

 

[doug60]

I have been using LUCAS OIL STABILIZER for about 4 years, 96 12 valve cummins 180000 miles. It re duces my oil consumtion to just about zero. I have never seen any of conditions shone here. I also run it 50/50 in trans & rear. I do all my own serviceing,so I would have seen if there any
airation or compatability problems. 9 quarts of rotella & 2 quarts stabilizer.

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

---

Originally posted by doug60:
I have been using LUCAS OIL STABILIZER for about 4 years, 96 12 valve cummins 180000 miles. It re duces my oil consumtion to just about zero. I have never seen any of conditions shone here. I also run it 50/50 in trans & rear. I do all my own serviceing,so I would have seen if there any
airation or compatability problems. 9 quarts of rotella & 2 quarts stabilizer.

---

Doug I know of two Dodge Cummins turbo diesels that made it too 1,000,000 miles just running plan old Rotella T 15w40. I haven't heard of many CTD owners on the Turbo Diesel Registry, (that has over 4000 CTD owners), who's trucks use any oil between changes. But if it makes you feel better to run the stabilizer then that's cool. I ran Rotella diesel fuel additive just because it made me feel better. All the old timers that run Cummins just laugh at guys like us and wonder why we waste our money.

 

[Matt-TDI]

I am very surprised at the outcome. Too bad I didn't see this when it was originally posted!

Lucas Oil Stabilizer came highly recommended to me by a few people who seemed to know what they were talking about. This is a bit of a disappointment, as I have been using the Lucas in my old S10 (which I recently sold) as well as some family members' vehicles (a 1980 Datsun 280ZX and a oil-consuming 1993 Mazda 626 ES V6).

I thank you for shedding light on this, Bob (a bit belated... yes, I realize). I think I need to find something better to reduce oil consumption and such. In the case of the old Z car I was just hoping it would make storing the car in the winter a little better, as the oil theoretically should spread to critical parts faster than normal oil alone. But I have read some other great suggestions here on this board already.

This UBB and website has got to be one of the best finds for a car-lover. I just might have to donate to this invaluable resource.

I still am stunned by the findings. I never noticed a hint of aeration whenever I drained the oil on the S10 (I used Lucas in it for several oil changes). And I used to do oil changes on a daily basis.. I have seen frothy oil here and there. And once in a while coolant/water mixed in with it... that's always good-looking. haha

Ok, I'll stop babbling

 

[doug60]

This motor has been turned up for 100000 miles, 400 hp 800 # torque. It still breaks the tire loose in 4 th gear at 45 to 50 mph. It broke the imput in half a couple of years ago. So maybe its getting tired. All I know is that Without the Lucas it will use oil.

 

[cryptokid]

i would like to see a good picture of the back of the machine to see how everything is hooked up to spin.

 

[severe]

interesting setup, and even though i do believe the results would be the same, i would like to see this performed as a true experiment.

in that article you used different oil on each side. also the high speeds were not tested prior to the lucas additive (atleast it wasnt shown). which basically nullifies the result due to lack of set controls.

both tanks should contain the same oil. be tested at the highest speed for a measured time period. then allowed to settle back down. after which the additive should be added to one side and the same speed & time period should be tested again.

 

[darkdan]

You're right, but I believe half the point of the test was to show with a good gear lube you don't need anything else.

Here's someone's personal results:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002696

 

[foot3ch]

How about LC=Lube Control? Has anyone heard about it? do you think LC will cause a foam as in Lucas? Also, there is auto-rx for cleaning.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by foot3ch:
How about LC=Lube Control? Has anyone heard about it? do you think LC will cause a foam as in Lucas? Also, there is auto-rx for cleaning.

---

I believe everyone here has heard of those products. Opinions vary on the neccesity of each. I will say that they seem to work as advertised.

I am in the long proccess of sorting it out. I am running a 6 month to 7500 OCI without LC on a vehicle and on the next run with the same oil I will use the LC as prescribed. 9 months to go.

 

[dohc]

What about additives like MolySlip E?

I'm sure the base oil is just plain base stock with no additive package.

But, there really isn't that much oil in a can, only about 300mL. I'd say 1/3 of it is Molybdenum.

Do you guys get this product in the states?

Does the benefits of extra Molybdenum outway the side effects of the base oil?

I know that eventually the moly gets filtered out, but by then, its already done its job.

 

[Oilmaniac]

Has anyone contacted Lucas regarding this study, to find out their insight/rebuttal? After all, there are two sides to each story, and I would like to hear their explanation. Kudos to Bob for opening up the debate. I never use additives unless my car is burning oil, but a quart of Lucas was recently put into my Cadillac by a mechanic who had forgotten to tighten the drain plug (as a measure of "goodwill").

 

[kgb007stb]

Is this the primary reason why LC is recommended for engines and automatics, but no mention of differentials or manual transmissions. where as AUTO-RX is recommended for manuals and differentials. This is something that one would suspect since AUTO-RX is not an "additive" that changes the composition of the oil while LC could be classified as an "additive?"

 

[demarpaint]

I sold used cars for a Honda dealership a few years ago. Our shop used Lucas to quiet down noisy engines on bad trades our manager took in.

It always amazed me how the manager of the used car department knew nothing about cars, other than checking for crash damage and looking up wholesale values in a Galves Book.

Many times we took trades with bad engines and trannys because of this guy. He wouldn't test drive trades either.

One time we had a civic with a loud tap from a lifter. We sent it to the shop to prep the car they added a qt of Lucas oil treatment, it quieted the car down. 3,000 miles later the customer changed his own oil and came back complaining of noisy lifters. He demanded the engine be properly repaired.

This is a good Band-Aid for a quick fix.

Frank D

 

[Terry]

My bias is towards chemistries that show well in oil analysis results.. I do not care about brand.

Bob was showing that adding stuff to fully formed lubes COULD cause problems. Shame that he is currently disabled somewhat by the stroke. His input here would be sage.

On the Lucas product I have seen it used in many different applications with very few of the users taking oil analysis tests. Originally the main ingredient in the products was Bright stock, a heavy lubricious cut of refining. It also is dense and thus any lowered noise in engine operation I attribute to sound deadnening and not reduced wear or improved operation.

If you want use Lucas products I suggest using oil analysis to verify.

Through oil analysis and bench testing we at this site have seen Auto-RX, Lubecontrol, and Schaeffers products cause no problems and work as advertized over years of use. All those products have a small marketing capability unlike the excellent marketing Lucas has.

 

[dohc]

None of you guys get MolySlip E?

Lucas did quite down my lifters too, but I used the fully synthetic mix, which I believe has some additives.

Any of try this with the synthetic Lucas? Bob, any plans?

MolySlip Home Page

 

[dohc]

I just read through the MolySlip product descriptions. It looks like they have anti-foam and corrosion inhibitors. Hopefully they don't react with the additive package in the oil I'm using (Motul 300V)

So I think I'll keep using MolySlip E and G, and just forget about Lucas all together (was too expensive anyway).

I used to use Bardahl 1, but switched to Lucas. I'll see if Bardahl has its own additives package.

My thoughts are with Bob, I didn't know he had a stroke.