Starting to see more made in USA

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by madRiver
Everyone wants American made products yet the job market pre Covid was 5% unemployment generally. How do you expect to fulfill more jobs in USA with manufacturing when the labor pool does not exist and immigration is stunted currently?

I get higher grade manufacturing the kind that requires workers to have 2year education etc in USA. However basic things seems like a waste of talent unless we ease up on legal immigration. Who do you think generally works the low wage manufacturing and food processing jobs?

Nah. We just need to stop pushing college college college college and support apprenticeships, trades, etc as well.

That is for sure. College degrees are worthless in many areas and in the areas where college degrees are useful you're going to need at least a masters these days. And the degree will need to be in a serious area of study and not nonsense.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by MCompact
In the mid ‘90s I spoke with a German engineer from BMW AG who had been assigned to BMW NA; he was underwhelmed by the quality of the US engineering graduates he dealt with. He also couldn't understand the push to send everyone to college in the US. He spoke at length about how German schools identify a student's abilities and talents and use that information to steer them towards a vocation that is a good fit for their ability and personality.


Trav has spoken about this system in the past as well.

 

[4WD]

I work with 4 German engineers … 3 are strong engineers and are a hoot to work with … the 4th one missed his vocational fork in the road …
We also have a German accounting specialist … she's good and crazy like a fox …

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by 4WD
I work with 4 German engineers … 3 are strong engineers and are a hoot to work with … the 4th one missed his vocational fork in the road …
We also have a German accounting specialist … she's good and crazy like a fox …


A recently passed dear friend of mine was German, emigrated to Canada in his late teens after the war. He was a tool and die maker by trade, worked for Douglas Aircraft, he definitely took the right path, he was obsessive with precision and making things and was spinning up items on his little precision lathes right up until he had his medically assisted termination. It's a very different culture, that's for sure, though I do think that age/generational gap had an impact on how he came across as well.

 

[4WD]

I bought my bay house from a tool & die maker that split his career with Cameron (missile plant) and Union Carbide. He made several neat things … One was a direct drive (all SST) wind direction monitor … the vane was above the roof crest and the compass was on the ceiling. Smooth, quiet, no leaks …
The damper on the wood stove was hand made … so precise …

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by MCompact
In the mid ‘90s I spoke with a German engineer from BMW AG who had been assigned to BMW NA; he was underwhelmed by the quality of the US engineering graduates he dealt with. He also couldn't understand the push to send everyone to college in the US. He spoke at length about how German schools identify a student's abilities and talents and use that information to steer them towards a vocation that is a good fit for their ability and personality.

The educational system in much of Europe is like that. Education is free, but accessibility is lower than in the US due to that fact.
When I was attending university I had to pass various exams specific to university and college I was applying for (there is no such thing as standardized testing). Those that pass, have free education and standards are universal. It does not matter whether it is oldest university or some university that exists 20-30years, standards are very high.
When I got to the US I worked for university as an assistant coach. I dealt with athletes and we had athletes from all over the world. We had German athletes too etc. What is common for them is that they are really, really bad in standardized testing. However, in my 5 years as assistant coach and later in volunteering role, all these European students went to graduate schools, for free here in the US, mostly on academic scholarships.
Now being in education, I still think that the US university system is strongest in the world. But, K-12 is absolute failure, and we lag behind many developed and developing nations a lot. That has huge effect on vocational development etc. There are other issues connected to this.
One of the biggest is immigration, and I am not talking about illegal, but legal. We bundled illegal and legal immigration into one, so these foreign students have a hard time staying in the US after they finish school, and many are on scholarships. We have huge engineering deficit, yet we make it hard to these graduates to get green card.So Canada for example has a program where they lure in foreigners who graduate in the US. They get Canadian permanent residency, pay taxes there etc. It became such a problem that companies such as Oracle, Microsoft etc. are opening RD centers in Canada just so they could move foreigners there.
There is (or was considering current crisis) demand for engineers here that it is national security issue, yet getting H1B1 after graduation is literally lottery system.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by 4WD
I work with 4 German engineers … 3 are strong engineers and are a hoot to work with … the 4th one missed his vocational fork in the road …
We also have a German accounting specialist … she's good and crazy like a fox …


A recently passed dear friend of mine was German, emigrated to Canada in his late teens after the war. He was a tool and die maker by trade, worked for Douglas Aircraft, he definitely took the right path, he was obsessive with precision and making things and was spinning up items on his little precision lathes right up until he had his medically assisted termination. It's a very different culture, that's for sure, though I do think that age/generational gap had an impact on how he came across as well.


My mother's side of the family immigrated to the US between WW I and WW II. My grandfather was a tool and die maker at the International Harvester plant in Louisville. The culture is different. Yet I was the first person on either side of my family to buy a German car- and a Japanese car, for that matter. Both sides drove/drive Fords almost exclusively; I apparently lack the Blue Oval gene...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by 4WD
I work with 4 German engineers … 3 are strong engineers and are a hoot to work with … the 4th one missed his vocational fork in the road …
We also have a German accounting specialist … she's good and crazy like a fox …


A recently passed dear friend of mine was German, emigrated to Canada in his late teens after the war. He was a tool and die maker by trade, worked for Douglas Aircraft, he definitely took the right path, he was obsessive with precision and making things and was spinning up items on his little precision lathes right up until he had his medically assisted termination. It's a very different culture, that's for sure, though I do think that age/generational gap had an impact on how he came across as well.


My mother's side of the family immigrated to the US between WW I and WW II. My grandfather was a tool and die maker at the International Harvester plant in Louisville. The culture is different. Yet I was the first person on either side of my family to buy a German car- and a Japanese car, for that matter. Both sides drove/drive Fords almost exclusively; I apparently lack the Blue Oval gene...


My friend was a German car fanatic, my sister's 535i was his car and he owned probably 5 different VW's (almost all TDI's) in the time I knew him. He liked them better as he got older as ingress/egress was easier on his knees and back. He absolutely loved my M5, hated my Ford products

 

[ls973800]

Have to give this example of something I always knew was made in the US but is no longer made here!

In the Cleveland, Ohio area American Greetings had their HQ and employed many people. For Mother's day this year I found a very nice card made by American Greetings and looked on the back to see how much it was. It was $9.99 for a nothing special but nice card! I debated for a few minutes and decided my wife was well worth the price of the card. I looked once more at the price just to make sure it was in fact $9.99 and then I noticed under the price it said "MADE IN CHINA"

Guess who didn't buy that card and will never purchase another American Greetings card!!!!!

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by ls973800
Have to give this example of something I always knew was made in the US but is no longer made here!

In the Cleveland, Ohio area American Greetings had their HQ and employed many people. For Mother's day this year I found a very nice card made by American Greetings and looked on the back to see how much it was. It was $9.99 for a nothing special but nice card! I debated for a few minutes and decided my wife was well worth the price of the card. I looked once more at the price just to make sure it was in fact $9.99 and then I noticed under the price it said "MADE IN CHINA"

Guess who didn't buy that card and will never purchase another American Greetings card!!!!!

Crazy logistics. It's designed here, the wood pulp and chalk are from Russia, the printing machines are Japanese run on German ink, the electricity is from Australian coal, loaded on Chinese made ship that's powered by Saudi oil.

All so that American Greetings can make a killing.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by ls973800
Have to give this example of something I always knew was made in the US but is no longer made here!

In the Cleveland, Ohio area American Greetings had their HQ and employed many people. For Mother's day this year I found a very nice card made by American Greetings and looked on the back to see how much it was. It was $9.99 for a nothing special but nice card! I debated for a few minutes and decided my wife was well worth the price of the card. I looked once more at the price just to make sure it was in fact $9.99 and then I noticed under the price it said "MADE IN CHINA"

Guess who didn't buy that card and will never purchase another American Greetings card!!!!!

Crazy logistics. It's designed here, the wood pulp and chalk are from Russia, the printing machines are Japanese run on German ink, the electricity is from Australian coal, loaded on Chinese made ship that's powered by Saudi oil.

All so that American Greetings can make a killing.


Yeah, that's like the shoe industry. Charge $100 but make the shoe overseas for $5. Are you protesting the $5 that goes overseas or the $95 that stays here?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by madRiver
Everyone wants American made products yet the job market pre Covid was 5% unemployment generally. How do you expect to fulfill more jobs in USA with manufacturing when the labor pool does not exist and immigration is stunted currently?

I get higher grade manufacturing the kind that requires workers to have 2year education etc in USA. However basic things seems like a waste of talent unless we ease up on legal immigration. Who do you think generally works the low wage manufacturing and food processing jobs?

Nah. We just need to stop pushing college college college college and support apprenticeships, trades, etc as well.

This.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by madRiver
Everyone wants American made products yet the job market pre Covid was 5% unemployment generally. How do you expect to fulfill more jobs in USA with manufacturing when the labor pool does not exist and immigration is stunted currently?

I get higher grade manufacturing the kind that requires workers to have 2year education etc in USA. However basic things seems like a waste of talent unless we ease up on legal immigration. Who do you think generally works the low wage manufacturing and food processing jobs?

Nah. We just need to stop pushing college college college college and support apprenticeships, trades, etc as well.

This.

Problem with that is that there is whole business around higher education. Sure, let's push trades and apprenticeships, but first you have to fund higher education from state budgets like Germany does, and 50% of country would go absolutely nuts around that idea.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by madRiver
Everyone wants American made products yet the job market pre Covid was 5% unemployment generally. How do you expect to fulfill more jobs in USA with manufacturing when the labor pool does not exist and immigration is stunted currently?

I get higher grade manufacturing the kind that requires workers to have 2year education etc in USA. However basic things seems like a waste of talent unless we ease up on legal immigration. Who do you think generally works the low wage manufacturing and food processing jobs?

Nah. We just need to stop pushing college college college college and support apprenticeships, trades, etc as well.

This.

Problem with that is that there is whole business around higher education. Sure, let's push trades and apprenticeships, but first you have to fund higher education from state budgets like Germany does, and 50% of country would go absolutely nuts around that idea.


Why? Why can't people either pay for it themselves, or the industries sign them for a contract and t hen pay for the education of their worker? That's what I did. Covered the last year and a half of my college in exchange for a 2 year contract (which I did, +3 more years, for that company).

That is the PROBLEM. College has become a business. Those student loans get traded as securities (SLABS), etc. Of COURSE the end-user/customer is getting shafted, partly due to ignorance on their part, partly due to the mishandling of the education system as a debt-mill.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by Ws6

Why? Why can't people either pay for it themselves, or the industries sign them for a contract and t hen pay for the education of their worker? That's what I did. Covered the last year and a half of my college in exchange for a 2 year contract (which I did, +3 more years, for that company).

That is the PROBLEM. College has become a business. Those student loans get traded as securities (SLABS), etc. Of COURSE the end-user/customer is getting shafted, partly due to ignorance on their part, partly due to the mishandling of the education system as a debt-mill.


Agreed. My company pays for education, and almost all the other shops will pay for their employees apprenticeships 100%.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Ws6


Why? Why can't people either pay for it themselves, or the industries sign them for a contract and t hen pay for the education of their worker? That's what I did. Covered the last year and a half of my college in exchange for a 2 year contract (which I did, +3 more years, for that company).

That is the PROBLEM. College has become a business. Those student loans get traded as securities (SLABS), etc. Of COURSE the end-user/customer is getting shafted, partly due to ignorance on their part, partly due to the mishandling of the education system as a debt-mill.

This.