I love riding, but other people are too terrible at driving their two-ton death machines for me to risk sharing the road with them. I would have to move somewhere with minimal population density. Wyoming is nice.
Sometimes on a Bike Your Number Just Comes Up
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
If someone offered you $1,000,000 for one round of Russian Roulette, the actuarial tables would have you making a choice that would return $833,333 if you partook, or zero if you abstained.
the "whopping 50% less" changes the 1:20 to 1:30
Your math and reasoning is completely wrong.
If someone offered you $1,000,000 for one round of Russian Roulette, the actuarial tables would have you making a choice that would return $833,333 if you partook, or zero if you abstained.
the "whopping 50% less" changes the 1:20 to 1:30
Your math and reasoning is completely wrong.
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Today, roughly 1 in 1000 motorcyclists die each year. Over a riding career of 50 years, that increases risk to 1 in 20.
To make matters worse, the more you ride, the higher the risk.
I would argue against that. Crashing is not an inevitability and just compounding the risk due to the passage of time assuming that "one day your number will come up" is inaccurate. I would say the longer you ride and the more experience you get, the less likely the chance of an accident is. Of course freak accidents happen and there is less protection on a motorcycle than other modes of transportation, but it's not as if any of them are actually safe.
As alarmguy said above, if you are conscious of your decisions and keep yourself out of the situations most likely to result in death or injury, the risk is nowhere near as bad as the statistics would have us think.
Well said, also the 1 in 20 math is off in MotoT's post. Using his numbers that 1% of riders die every year does not increase his odds to 1 in 20 chance of dying over a 50 year period.
Ignoring the math. Major risk factors of dying are alcohol, drugs, reckless riding and behavior add up to close to 50% of the deaths and true an automobile will be more forgiving in these instances, also age is a factor, young riders are in more danger then older.
All I am saying and think every one knows by now, get rid of the risks mentioned here and your odds greatly improve. Bikes just do not handle drunk riders and reckless riding/driving very well, in these cases a car is much safer.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Today, roughly 1 in 1000 motorcyclists die each year. Over a riding career of 50 years, that increases risk to 1 in 20.
To make matters worse, the more you ride, the higher the risk.
I would argue against that. Crashing is not an inevitability and just compounding the risk due to the passage of time assuming that "one day your number will come up" is inaccurate. I would say the longer you ride and the more experience you get, the less likely the chance of an accident is. Of course freak accidents happen and there is less protection on a motorcycle than other modes of transportation, but it's not as if any of them are actually safe.
As alarmguy said above, if you are conscious of your decisions and keep yourself out of the situations most likely to result in death or injury, the risk is nowhere near as bad as the statistics would have us think.
Well said, also the 1 in 20 math is off in MotoT's post. Using his numbers that 1% of riders die every year does not increase his odds to 1 in 20 chance of dying over a 50 year period.
Ignoring the math. Major risk factors of dying are alcohol, drugs, reckless riding and behavior add up to close to 50% of the deaths and true an automobile will be more forgiving in these instances, also age is a factor, young riders are in more danger then older.
All I am saying and think every one knows by now, get rid of the risks mentioned here and your odds greatly improve. Bikes just do not handle drunk riders and reckless riding/driving very well, in these cases a car is much safer.
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Ignoring the math. Major risk factors of dying are alcohol, drugs, reckless riding and behavior add up to close to 50% of the deaths and true an automobile will be more forgiving in these instances, also age is a factor, young riders are in more danger then older.
All I am saying and think every one knows by now, get rid of the risks mentioned here and your odds greatly improve. Bikes just do not handle drunk riders and reckless riding/driving very well, in these cases a car is much safer.
I agree, and I'd also add that proper rider training and wearing All The Gear All The Time(ATGATT) also substantially reduces the risk factor.
Ignoring the math. Major risk factors of dying are alcohol, drugs, reckless riding and behavior add up to close to 50% of the deaths and true an automobile will be more forgiving in these instances, also age is a factor, young riders are in more danger then older.
All I am saying and think every one knows by now, get rid of the risks mentioned here and your odds greatly improve. Bikes just do not handle drunk riders and reckless riding/driving very well, in these cases a car is much safer.
I agree, and I'd also add that proper rider training and wearing All The Gear All The Time(ATGATT) also substantially reduces the risk factor.
Originally Posted By: grampi
I rode motorcycles for 45+ years. Gave it up last year. I'll be satisfying my sportiness need with a Corvette instead. It's not the safest car on the road, but it's infinitely safer than a MC...
I'm pretty sure that every Motorcyclist knows that Motorcycles are more hazardous to ones well-being, than cars. Those of us that still choose to ride, apparently get something out of it that no car can match.
I rode motorcycles for 45+ years. Gave it up last year. I'll be satisfying my sportiness need with a Corvette instead. It's not the safest car on the road, but it's infinitely safer than a MC...
I'm pretty sure that every Motorcyclist knows that Motorcycles are more hazardous to ones well-being, than cars. Those of us that still choose to ride, apparently get something out of it that no car can match.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: grampi
I rode motorcycles for 45+ years. Gave it up last year. I'll be satisfying my sportiness need with a Corvette instead. It's not the safest car on the road, but it's infinitely safer than a MC...
I'm pretty sure that every Motorcyclist knows that Motorcycles are more hazardous to ones well-being, than cars. Those of us that still choose to ride, apparently get something out of it that no car can match.
More power to you, and I hope nothing bad ever happens to anyone who rides them, but I don't miss 'em...
Originally Posted By: grampi
I rode motorcycles for 45+ years. Gave it up last year. I'll be satisfying my sportiness need with a Corvette instead. It's not the safest car on the road, but it's infinitely safer than a MC...
I'm pretty sure that every Motorcyclist knows that Motorcycles are more hazardous to ones well-being, than cars. Those of us that still choose to ride, apparently get something out of it that no car can match.
More power to you, and I hope nothing bad ever happens to anyone who rides them, but I don't miss 'em...
I also rode for 45+ years and only had one run in with a car(not my fault, '75) but when my wife got hit by a car(ICU for 8 days) my kids and grandchildren asked me if I could stop riding because they didn't want to lose mom or dad to a inattentive driver. I gave it a lot of thought and I stopped riding on the street(still ride dirt).
I also don't miss it and I really thought I would. We do have a S2000 that we now drive all the places we rode our bikes, I suppose that helps with the withdrawals.
ROD
I also don't miss it and I really thought I would. We do have a S2000 that we now drive all the places we rode our bikes, I suppose that helps with the withdrawals.
ROD
There are a lot of motorcycle owners on this forum but not many motorcyclist.
^ Agreed!
Originally Posted By: gman2304
I rarely ride city streets or Interstate highways. I feel it helps my odds considerably to avoid these types of roads.
Actually, if you look at the statistics, from NTSB the safest place for motorycles are the interstates.
If you dont drink, if you are a responsible rider the next biggest threat is a car making a right left turn in front of you which doesnt happen on the interstate.
Stood out in my mind because my wife and I love the interstates and, just guessing, at least 50% or more of our mileage and actually the reason we purchased the RK back in 2014.. I posted other links in this thread, found these interesting too.
Estimates on bike deaths 2016 - Click
30% of riders who died were legally intoxacated Which is really sad, there just is no forgiveness on two wheels. But what surprised me is automotive deaths, though not as great, still a very high number - Click
Think I posted this one already - Click
I rarely ride city streets or Interstate highways. I feel it helps my odds considerably to avoid these types of roads.
Actually, if you look at the statistics, from NTSB the safest place for motorycles are the interstates.
If you dont drink, if you are a responsible rider the next biggest threat is a car making a right left turn in front of you which doesnt happen on the interstate.
Stood out in my mind because my wife and I love the interstates and, just guessing, at least 50% or more of our mileage and actually the reason we purchased the RK back in 2014.. I posted other links in this thread, found these interesting too.
Estimates on bike deaths 2016 - Click
30% of riders who died were legally intoxacated Which is really sad, there just is no forgiveness on two wheels. But what surprised me is automotive deaths, though not as great, still a very high number - Click
Think I posted this one already - Click
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Originally Posted By: rrounds
I also rode for 45+ years and only had one run in with a car(not my fault, '75) but when my wife got hit by a car(ICU for 8 days) my kids and grandchildren asked me if I could stop riding because they didn't want to lose mom or dad to a inattentive driver. I gave it a lot of thought and I stopped riding on the street(still ride dirt).
I also don't miss it and I really thought I would. We do have a S2000 that we now drive all the places we rode our bikes, I suppose that helps with the withdrawals.
ROD
I told my wife, who wouldn't ride on bikes with me, that I think of a Corvette as a motorcycle that will keep us warm when it gets cold, dry if it rains, has more room for stuff, and has more comfortable seats, that's still fast and sporty...and my wife will go with me in the Vette...
I also rode for 45+ years and only had one run in with a car(not my fault, '75) but when my wife got hit by a car(ICU for 8 days) my kids and grandchildren asked me if I could stop riding because they didn't want to lose mom or dad to a inattentive driver. I gave it a lot of thought and I stopped riding on the street(still ride dirt).
I also don't miss it and I really thought I would. We do have a S2000 that we now drive all the places we rode our bikes, I suppose that helps with the withdrawals.
ROD
I told my wife, who wouldn't ride on bikes with me, that I think of a Corvette as a motorcycle that will keep us warm when it gets cold, dry if it rains, has more room for stuff, and has more comfortable seats, that's still fast and sporty...and my wife will go with me in the Vette...
I've been riding 47 years and got my one collision with a car out of the way in year 1 at the age of 16. Black cab taxi driver did a U turn on a busy road, I hit the front wing side on with my little Ducati Monza and did a graceful somersault over the bonnet. I guess I must have been at least bruised but I really don't remember as you bounce better at that age. At any rate it was one I could walk away from. A few years later I dropped my brand new Triumph Bonnie on a diesel spill and slide down the road on my aris without hitting anything or getting run over which was a bit of luck. Again I have no recollection of the injuries.
Touch wood I've stayed upright since. Besides the usual "I didn't see you" near misses, the nearest I've come to an off in recent years is riding in a group on a notoriously dangerous road and it comes to mind that two motorcycling deaths I've heard of from friends have also occurred in group riding. Riding at someone else's pace is not a smart thing to do. I'll keep on riding at my own for a little longer yet.
Touch wood I've stayed upright since. Besides the usual "I didn't see you" near misses, the nearest I've come to an off in recent years is riding in a group on a notoriously dangerous road and it comes to mind that two motorcycling deaths I've heard of from friends have also occurred in group riding. Riding at someone else's pace is not a smart thing to do. I'll keep on riding at my own for a little longer yet.
Most of these post are I love motorcycles But... I don't agree with buts.. I want that girl but...she probably wont like me. I want this but... I want that but... I want to be this but...
I choose to not think like this as often as possible because it traps people. My ride across the US last fall on my XSR900 was one of the best times of my life. Put down the stats sheets and get rid of the buts in life...and live life. Will Rogers said "Worrying is like owing on a debt that may never come due".
I will continue to ride!
I choose to not think like this as often as possible because it traps people. My ride across the US last fall on my XSR900 was one of the best times of my life. Put down the stats sheets and get rid of the buts in life...and live life. Will Rogers said "Worrying is like owing on a debt that may never come due".
I will continue to ride!
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: grampi
I rode motorcycles for 45+ years. Gave it up last year. I'll be satisfying my sportiness need with a Corvette instead. It's not the safest car on the road, but it's infinitely safer than a MC...
I'm pretty sure that every Motorcyclist knows that Motorcycles are more hazardous to ones well-being, than cars. Those of us that still choose to ride, apparently get something out of it that no car can match.
More power to you, and I hope nothing bad ever happens to anyone who rides them, but I don't miss 'em...
Well, in all fairness, you rode them for 45 years, after forty five years I am certain many of us may feel the same!
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: grampi
I rode motorcycles for 45+ years. Gave it up last year. I'll be satisfying my sportiness need with a Corvette instead. It's not the safest car on the road, but it's infinitely safer than a MC...
I'm pretty sure that every Motorcyclist knows that Motorcycles are more hazardous to ones well-being, than cars. Those of us that still choose to ride, apparently get something out of it that no car can match.
More power to you, and I hope nothing bad ever happens to anyone who rides them, but I don't miss 'em...
Well, in all fairness, you rode them for 45 years, after forty five years I am certain many of us may feel the same!
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Most of these post are I love motorcycles But... I don't agree with buts.. I want that girl but...she probably wont like me. I want this but... I want that but... I want to be this but...
I choose to not think like this as often as possible because it traps people. My ride across the US last fall on my XSR900 was one of the best times of my life. Put down the stats sheets and get rid of the buts in life...and live life. Will Rogers said "Worrying is like owing on a debt that may never come due".
I will continue to ride!
Well said ... more so of the "traps people" line.
Its amazing and quite scary, how mass media shapes and literally controls (less independent thinking) peoples minds into a certain way of thinking, how people perceive every day issues and life in general.
Much of the population are truly becoming zombies, unable to find satisfaction unless purchasing a product marketed to them, or in the political arena, same thing.
People forget how to take charge of their lives and stop looking at others and media, etc.
The world is not a horrible place and much improved over the decades and centuries, but people forget how to be independent and enjoy life and yes, work hard.
Most of these post are I love motorcycles But... I don't agree with buts.. I want that girl but...she probably wont like me. I want this but... I want that but... I want to be this but...
I choose to not think like this as often as possible because it traps people. My ride across the US last fall on my XSR900 was one of the best times of my life. Put down the stats sheets and get rid of the buts in life...and live life. Will Rogers said "Worrying is like owing on a debt that may never come due".
I will continue to ride!
Well said ... more so of the "traps people" line.
Its amazing and quite scary, how mass media shapes and literally controls (less independent thinking) peoples minds into a certain way of thinking, how people perceive every day issues and life in general.
Much of the population are truly becoming zombies, unable to find satisfaction unless purchasing a product marketed to them, or in the political arena, same thing.
People forget how to take charge of their lives and stop looking at others and media, etc.
The world is not a horrible place and much improved over the decades and centuries, but people forget how to be independent and enjoy life and yes, work hard.
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Most of these post are I love motorcycles But... I don't agree with buts.. I want that girl but...she probably wont like me. I want this but... I want that but... I want to be this but...
I choose to not think like this as often as possible because it traps people. My ride across the US last fall on my XSR900 was one of the best times of my life. Put down the stats sheets and get rid of the buts in life...and live life. Will Rogers said "Worrying is like owing on a debt that may never come due".
I will continue to ride!
Well said ... more so of the "traps people" line.
Its amazing and quite scary, how mass media shapes and literally controls (less independent thinking) peoples minds into a certain way of thinking, how people perceive every day issues and life in general.
Much of the population are truly becoming zombies, unable to find satisfaction unless purchasing a product marketed to them, or in the political arena, same thing.
People forget how to take charge of their lives and stop looking at others and media, etc.
The world is not a horrible place and much improved over the decades and centuries, but some people forget how to be independent and enjoy life and yes, work hard.
Fixed.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Most of these post are I love motorcycles But... I don't agree with buts.. I want that girl but...she probably wont like me. I want this but... I want that but... I want to be this but...
I choose to not think like this as often as possible because it traps people. My ride across the US last fall on my XSR900 was one of the best times of my life. Put down the stats sheets and get rid of the buts in life...and live life. Will Rogers said "Worrying is like owing on a debt that may never come due".
I will continue to ride!
Well said ... more so of the "traps people" line.
Its amazing and quite scary, how mass media shapes and literally controls (less independent thinking) peoples minds into a certain way of thinking, how people perceive every day issues and life in general.
Much of the population are truly becoming zombies, unable to find satisfaction unless purchasing a product marketed to them, or in the political arena, same thing.
People forget how to take charge of their lives and stop looking at others and media, etc.
The world is not a horrible place and much improved over the decades and centuries, but some people forget how to be independent and enjoy life and yes, work hard.
Fixed.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
donnyj08 said:
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Ah, we're all such great riders, and it's good to be in control of the situation at all times...but sometimes we are not in control of the situation, let alone the bike. I'm fairly confident in the wet, caution is required of course, but also you need to have confidence in your bike and tyres.
Coming home from work the other night in the rain, there is a bit of road, a dip with an S bend, normally the 100kph speed limit without thinking - but there is a sign...''Slippery when wet or frosts.'' There was a truck upside down off the bank 3 weeks ago, so yeah, slippery in the wet...and I haven't had the bike through here in the wet.
So I slowed down to about 70 or 80kph, and going down the dip the bike just let go, stepping out, zero traction. Not much lean angle as I was straight lining the corner as much as possible, but it was a long slide, 20 metres or more at that speed. Hook up was not too abrupt, so was able to just keep going. Pretty scary stuff, but no more problems the rest of the way home...I took the car on friday.
I don't know if there was any skill involved, apart from a lifetime of being sideways. But there is a difference on being sideways in a slide, braking or on power, with some traction to play with, zero traction is a different story, there is not much you can do for control.
So, a moment for me, a wake up call. Certainly not enough to stop me riding, even in the rain, but I have taken notice...
Coming home from work the other night in the rain, there is a bit of road, a dip with an S bend, normally the 100kph speed limit without thinking - but there is a sign...''Slippery when wet or frosts.'' There was a truck upside down off the bank 3 weeks ago, so yeah, slippery in the wet...and I haven't had the bike through here in the wet.
So I slowed down to about 70 or 80kph, and going down the dip the bike just let go, stepping out, zero traction. Not much lean angle as I was straight lining the corner as much as possible, but it was a long slide, 20 metres or more at that speed. Hook up was not too abrupt, so was able to just keep going. Pretty scary stuff, but no more problems the rest of the way home...I took the car on friday.
I don't know if there was any skill involved, apart from a lifetime of being sideways. But there is a difference on being sideways in a slide, braking or on power, with some traction to play with, zero traction is a different story, there is not much you can do for control.
So, a moment for me, a wake up call. Certainly not enough to stop me riding, even in the rain, but I have taken notice...
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