SJ replacement?

[FCD]

In your Lexus? i would run SM/SN oil and not worry one bit.
In your flat tappet SBC i would run Shell Rotella 10W-30 or 15W-40, your being a stock 1985 model has a tiny camshaft and it is well worn in by now, it doesn't need super high Zddp but old flat tappet OHV V6s and V8s seem to like HDEOs anyway so i'd run that.

 

[BigD1]

Ford Motorcraft 10W-30 Diesel motor oil should be a good fit. Used it for a cam break in back earlier this year for my Toyota pickup.

Walmart stocks it at a reasonable price, and unlike most other diesel oils it is sold in a five quart jug instead of four quarts.

http://pqiadata.org/Ford_Motorcraft__SDF_10W30.html

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
What's frustrating is that I know that I've read something on it. Not just "they say", but a paper of some sorts, or TSB from an aero engine manufacturer.

I may have come across a reference, but nothing more than that. It would be nice to find something, though. I'm always paranoid about it, thanks to the mention over the years.

 

[BrocLuno]

Roller follower, use any premium oil you care to. It's not an issue

Any oil at 800 PPM ZDDP will serve very well. I'd prolly run the narrowest spread I could to eliminate any VII's. But other than that, have at it.

For the Chevy, I'd still like to be on the + side of 800 PPM ZDDP. But there is no need to go to extremes. Most any 15W-40 HDEO will serve very well in all but the coldest months. For real cold months, you might talk yourself into a stout 5W-30. But, if it lives in a garage and is not exposed to temps below 20*F, the 15W-40 work there too

 

[Ether]

Thanks very much BrocLuno

 

[BrocLuno]

One option you could be looking for is Vavoline "All Fleet" AFPE900. It has a ZDDP level of 1270 PPM and is a very nice oil

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Do...12-ac162d889bd1

 

[nthach]

The Lexus will be happy on API SN-rated oil. That 3UZ-FE engine is a very good motor, it's not as stout as the 1989-1994 era 1UZ-FE that was the basis for it but 99.98% of LS/SC/GS owners aren't going to mod their motors to need forged rods and pistons, the newer 3UZ uses sintered rods but it's still a strong engine. 6-bolt mains as well.

I'd be more concerned about valve clearance and the timing belt/water pump on those.

 

[Drew1987]

Guys thank you all for the info. I think I’m going to go with t5 10w30 in the Chevy as it’s easy to get... wish I could find a chemically equivalent store brand oil like Superfech or Partsmaster as they are quite inexpensive. I need to do some kind of a flush in the Chevy. Don’t want to try atf or diesel but may do a whole can of sea form or perhaps that Neutra I’ve read about on here. 80,000-90,000 miles as a cemetery maintenance dump truck plus all the idling I’m sure it is buggered up. And then a good couple thousand miles of moving around a street rod in a spirited manor, I’m sure it’s not in its prime



As for the 3uz, sadly that deal didn’t work out. The car was going to be an even trade but needed work. I didn’t have the time or money and my 1mz car doesn’t need any work and is 40,000 miles younger. That will continue in the (valvoline made?) Partsmaster 5w30 full syn 3,000 mile changes. Glad to hear SN isn’t starting it. My Honda j35a7 gets what’s on sale (got $7 5qt jugs of Quaker last time) conventional every 3k.

I use “protec” store brand filters in the Lexus and have a bunch of Bosch filters left for the Honda. Chevy gets shop quality Fram

 

[Drew1987]

Guys one last thing.... Ford brand diesel 10w30 is right at my local Walmart and cheap. How is the zinc in that? Seems like it would be great for the chebby.

Had it out yesterday. The roads were dry (kind of white, but dry) so I did a couple miles to keep things fresh. Missed that car....

 

[BrocLuno]

Do you have a Tractor Supply Store near you? Traveller brand HDEO is pretty good oil and it's often on sale

PQIA is your friend when trying to find oil specs: PQIA HDEO's

 

[Drew1987]

Thank you! Based on that Ford is good! I’ll check out the TC stuff. Seems like I can do a $20 oil change with the ford


Thoughts on some diesel fuel in the crank case (1-1.5qt) and run from cold to warm (10 minuets) as a flush? Have heard mixed things. Just want to clean lifters etc

 

[BrocLuno]

I do a full can of BG109 (EPR) for the last 100 miles before a change. After a few changes like that, the lifters would not stick to a wall of honey

 

[Drew1987]

ill look into that! I’ve used sea foam in crank case and it seemed to clean stuff up. I just wonder what it does long run as some will always stay in there...

 

[Drew1987]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Do you have a Tractor Supply Store near you? Traveller brand HDEO is pretty good oil and it's often on sale

PQIA is your friend when trying to find oil specs: PQIA HDEO's

I was there yesterday for their awesome and cost effective blasting media (I HATE blasting)and checked out the oil

Traveler 2 gallon HDEO in Straight 30 was an attractive option, I think overall better than 15w40 (open to opinions about that) as I seldom run my car under 32°f. A gorgeous sunny dry 20°f day isn’t out of the question but in 4 years I’ve done that maybe 3 times. If it’s 0°f and snowing and something catastrophic happens to one of our daily cars, I’ll start and pull the 1950 out of the garage, let it run for 45 minutes or at least 30 minutes once warmed up... 15w40 could be nice but 40 is thick... I’ve been using brad penn green 30w

Anyway, didn’t see 30w specs on the pqia website...

Thanks all

 

[Drew1987]

I’m back....

I didn’t see Rotella T4 10w30 on the pqia site, but did see 1206ppm in their 15w40. Don’t want that think though. Was wondering if anyone knew... I recently called a manufacturer and found a 25% reduction in zinc in their 10w30 HDEO vs the same line’s 15w40. That’s why I ask.

Also, would love to know Supertech’s HDEO 10w30 zinc (if it exists).


Thanks guys/gals

 

[artificialist]

SN oils perform okay on stock OHV flat lifter cams. The Jeep 4.0 is probably the last mass produced OHV engine with flat lifters, and if SN oil was really so bad, older Jeeps would be gone. Instead, when properly maintained, they do last for ages on whatever bulk oil is on sale at the nearest quick lube. Some variants have problems that aren't related to oil, such as head cracks and piston skirt cracks.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Shannow

FYI, and I'm positive that it's not the issue for cams...(still trying to dig that stuff up)

When looking for marking pens and NDT chemicals, we need certification of low melting point metal and halide free marking pens and compounds.

http://www.corrosionclinic.com/types_of_corrosion/liquid metal embrittlement_LME.htm

Quote:
Liquid Metal Embrittlement (LME) refers to environmental cracking caused by contact with a liquid metal. It is also known or as Liquid Metal Cracking (LMC).

There is a specific combination of liquid metals and stressed metals or alloys that can lead to catastrophic intergranular cracking. For example, carbon steels and stainless steels are susceptible to liquid metal embrittlement by zinc and lithium; aluminum and aluminum alloys are susceptible to liquid metal embrittlement by mercury and zinc; copper and copper alloys are susceptible to liquid metal cracking by mercury and lithium. Cracking is frequently observed to be a single intergranular crack that propagates rapidly, at a rate of 25 cm/s.


Mercury-containing items are prohibited by all airlines as they pose a real risk to the structural integrity of the aircraft which is made of aluminum alloys.

Zinc from galvanized steel parts or zinc-rich paints is frequently found to be responsible for the cracking of welded steel components in various industries.



Mechanisms

What causes liquid metal cracking?

The mechanism of liquid metal cracking is clearly not electrochemical in nature. It is most probably an adsorption-induced cracking. The liquid metal atoms when adsorbed on a susceptible metal or alloy reduces the metal bond strength within the grain boundary regions of the susceptible metal. Under tensile stress, crack initiates and propagates rapidly along the grain boundaries.


Yeah I'm with you on the cams.

The certified safe marking pens makes sense if your turbines are make of high temperature steel (high Ni, Cr, Mo, etc alloys). I'm sure they have a lot of tensional forces when they start to spin. Add F / Cl / Br or low melting point metals and you are in big trouble.

I'm back at work next week, so I'll be able to chat with some metallurgists.

That reference you gave above said
"Zinc from galvanized steel parts or zinc-rich paints is frequently found to be responsible for the cracking of welded steel components in various industries."

I'll ask them about that too and how frequent it truly is.


So to continue this conversation, I spoke to some failure analysis engineers / metallurgists / chemists at work about this. They say the mode of failure of having liquid metal zinc causing intergranular fractures after welding is well know, and the correct procedure is covered by most welding standards and in trade training.

The cause is welding already galvanised (zinc plated) metal, melting the zinc with the heat of the electrode, then have this cause LMC. The solution is to remove all the zinc coating (by grinding) before welding, or ideally weld first and then plate second.

It's not an mechanism that would exist in an engine with a heavy ZDDP oil. It's at welding issue. No welding, then no zinc LMC problems.

 

[Silk]

Yeah, trying to weld a hot dip galv, like a trailer frame is a real pain - you can grind out the galv, but it's on the inside too, so any good penetration will pull zinc in from the back of the weld. Same with brazing, it's almost impossible to weld something that's been brazed, you can't get the bronze out of the joint, it will always be weak and crack again.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SR5

So to continue this conversation, I spoke to some failure analysis engineers / metallurgists / chemists at work about this. They say the mode of failure of having liquid metal zinc causing intergranular fractures after welding is well know, and the correct procedure is covered by most welding standards and in trade training.

The cause is welding already galvanised (zinc plated) metal, melting the zinc with the heat of the electrode, then have this cause LMC. The solution is to remove all the zinc coating (by grinding) before welding, or ideally weld first and then plate second.

It's not an mechanism that would exist in an engine with a heavy ZDDP oil. It's at welding issue. No welding, then no zinc LMC problems.


It's present in boiler tubes, without welding gal. We don't take Gal INTO the boiler, let alone weld with it. We can get it from copper deposits in tubes, metal pigments in pain pens, zinc coated scaffold wires rubbed across tubes.

search.

EPRI (Electric Power Research Institute), when I did my boiler tube training recommnended that products such as these
http://www.markal.com/resources/low-corrosion-products-for-stainless-steel-and-other-alloy-metals/
only be used on high temperature materials.

Again, I was only suggesting a possibility for the rumoured intergranular cracking/spalling that's alleged to occur on cams with very high ZDDP.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Given the OPer's financial constraints, I'm wondering if using a quality conventional, semi-syn, or cheap synthetic SN oil along with a partial bottle of ZDDP additive might make sense?
I think the ZDDP additives are around $5-10 and are supposed to give you something like 2X the ZDDP dose of SN. I would think using half a bottle to give the OPer 1.5X the SN dose should be sufficient protection for his vehicle.
IDK how this compares in total price to something like T4 or T5, but it might be worth considering.