Garak, thanks for the chart.
Serious discussion about 10W syn for winter
- Thread starter addyguy
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No problem. I have a use for a 5w-XX or 0w-XX, at least a few times a years, and, unfortunately, sometimes more than a few times. While I do have a heated garage, it never fails that the time I'm stuck outside for a number of hours with no plug, it has to be on a ridiculously cold day. Being able to start is nice, and it's also nice to have an oil that will actually pump, and not just have the pump try to pump an empty column once the engine does catch.
With the old F-150, it could often start when it probably wasn't wise to try with what was in the sump at the time. That's the thing with carbs, and especially if you're stubborn enough to coax the things when you really shouldn't.
With the old F-150, it could often start when it probably wasn't wise to try with what was in the sump at the time. That's the thing with carbs, and especially if you're stubborn enough to coax the things when you really shouldn't.
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
We've been using primarily full synthetic 10w-30 for the last 10-12 years. Mostly PP & Napa syn. Location : Colorado approx. 6200 ft. We live in the foothills in a large valley and temps in the winter can get extreme. Its not uncommon to hit -10 or lower. The valley helps to create some extreme temps, we have hit -25 3-4 times. Under these conditions we have run numerous vehicles with no issues, including a few high milers up to 212k. I'm not suggesting running a 0w or 5w in the winter wouldn't have benefits, just reporting the results we've had. Good luck.
Are these vehicles parked inside overnight?
Not doubting your results at all, just curious about the conditions involved.
We've been using primarily full synthetic 10w-30 for the last 10-12 years. Mostly PP & Napa syn. Location : Colorado approx. 6200 ft. We live in the foothills in a large valley and temps in the winter can get extreme. Its not uncommon to hit -10 or lower. The valley helps to create some extreme temps, we have hit -25 3-4 times. Under these conditions we have run numerous vehicles with no issues, including a few high milers up to 212k. I'm not suggesting running a 0w or 5w in the winter wouldn't have benefits, just reporting the results we've had. Good luck.
Are these vehicles parked inside overnight?
Not doubting your results at all, just curious about the conditions involved.
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
We've been using primarily full synthetic 10w-30 for the last 10-12 years. Mostly PP & Napa syn. Location : Colorado approx. 6200 ft. We live in the foothills in a large valley and temps in the winter can get extreme. Its not uncommon to hit -10 or lower. The valley helps to create some extreme temps, we have hit -25 3-4 times. Under these conditions we have run numerous vehicles with no issues, including a few high milers up to 212k. I'm not suggesting running a 0w or 5w in the winter wouldn't have benefits, just reporting the results we've had. Good luck.
We had a 2013 F-150 5.0 and a 2014 Edge 3.5 until recently. The winters we had them, I noticed on both, when it started getting into the -5F to -10F range or lower, the engines were noticeably turning over slower, when left overnight(outside). The two always had Motorcraft 5W-20 Syn Blend, changed at 5k. It gets a little colder here than Denver. My house is actually at about 6400 ft.
We've been using primarily full synthetic 10w-30 for the last 10-12 years. Mostly PP & Napa syn. Location : Colorado approx. 6200 ft. We live in the foothills in a large valley and temps in the winter can get extreme. Its not uncommon to hit -10 or lower. The valley helps to create some extreme temps, we have hit -25 3-4 times. Under these conditions we have run numerous vehicles with no issues, including a few high milers up to 212k. I'm not suggesting running a 0w or 5w in the winter wouldn't have benefits, just reporting the results we've had. Good luck.
We had a 2013 F-150 5.0 and a 2014 Edge 3.5 until recently. The winters we had them, I noticed on both, when it started getting into the -5F to -10F range or lower, the engines were noticeably turning over slower, when left overnight(outside). The two always had Motorcraft 5W-20 Syn Blend, changed at 5k. It gets a little colder here than Denver. My house is actually at about 6400 ft.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
This paper linked here will certainly make you think about winter oil
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4503063/1
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4503063/1
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
This paper linked here will certainly make you think about winter oil
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4503063/1
What do you mean "think twice about winter oil"?
This paper linked here will certainly make you think about winter oil
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4503063/1
What do you mean "think twice about winter oil"?
Did you read the paper?
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Did you read the paper?
Yes I did. I couldn't figure out what you meant by "winter oil", did you mean "the condition and challenges of motor oil in winter" or oils with a low "W" number? The paper discusses the relative accuracy of oil condition monitors during the winter season but this thread is about the pumpability of oil at low temperatures.
Did you read the paper?
Yes I did. I couldn't figure out what you meant by "winter oil", did you mean "the condition and challenges of motor oil in winter" or oils with a low "W" number? The paper discusses the relative accuracy of oil condition monitors during the winter season but this thread is about the pumpability of oil at low temperatures.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
Thats why i did not hesitate to mix 1 quart of m1 0w20ep with 5quarts of pp 10w30
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
Thats why i did not hesitate to mix 1 quart of m1 0w20ep with 5quarts of pp 10w30
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
Unless I'm missing something ... if two pour points are equal between a 0w and a 10w, then this simply means the one is a 0w at start up and the other is a 10w. If flow properties are fine for both in a given temp range, the 10w should offer better protection when driving the car till it is warmed up to operating temp since it is using a thicker viscosity. How much protection does a 0w weight really offer when driving a cold motor?
The number in front of the "w" is not a weight, it is the ability for the oil to pump (MRV) and impact cold start crank speed (CCS). That's why you have 0w-20, 0w-30, 0w-40....etc in progressive order of thickness. They ALL get thicker as the temperature drops, the difference is the point at which they thicken beyond the thresholds for those testing parameters.
I understand the w for winter is a theoretical weight of measure. What I was posing is something like this: If you have a 5w30 and a 10w30 with the same or very similar pour point of around -35F in 2 different vehicles, and the ambient temp is -0F; when you cold start both vehicles at -0F and then drive them till they reach their normal operating temps, would not the 10w oil provide better protection then 5w oil because both oils are pumping just fine but the 10w has a thicker viscosity?
Its more a question than a statement.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
Unless I'm missing something ... if two pour points are equal between a 0w and a 10w, then this simply means the one is a 0w at start up and the other is a 10w. If flow properties are fine for both in a given temp range, the 10w should offer better protection when driving the car till it is warmed up to operating temp since it is using a thicker viscosity. How much protection does a 0w weight really offer when driving a cold motor?
The number in front of the "w" is not a weight, it is the ability for the oil to pump (MRV) and impact cold start crank speed (CCS). That's why you have 0w-20, 0w-30, 0w-40....etc in progressive order of thickness. They ALL get thicker as the temperature drops, the difference is the point at which they thicken beyond the thresholds for those testing parameters.
I understand the w for winter is a theoretical weight of measure. What I was posing is something like this: If you have a 5w30 and a 10w30 with the same or very similar pour point of around -35F in 2 different vehicles, and the ambient temp is -0F; when you cold start both vehicles at -0F and then drive them till they reach their normal operating temps, would not the 10w oil provide better protection then 5w oil because both oils are pumping just fine but the 10w has a thicker viscosity?
Its more a question than a statement.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
I understand the w for winter is a theoretical weight of measure.
No, it isn't. The "W" designation simply indicates an oil's ability to pump and not impact cranking speed at specific temperatures.
Think of it as two bars, one far more strict than the other, that indicate a ceiling for a designation.
As an oil cools, it thickens. They all do. When you get a ways below 0C, testing via CCS and MRV, viscosity roughly doubles for every 5C drop in temperature. As soon as an oil crests the ceiling for CCS viscosity for a designation, that sets its W rating. Likewise, if it exceeds the MRV limit, it would receive the next grade up. From what I've observed, it seems to be CCS that generally is exceeded first.
Look at SAE J300:
Say we had an oil that was 6,000cP at -25C tested via CCS. At -30C, that oil would be ~12,000cP, meaning it would be above the limit for the 5w-xx designation (6,600cp) so it is then assigned the 10w-xx rating unless for some wacky reason it's >60,000cP @ -30C on the MRV test.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
What I was posing is something like this: If you have a 5w30 and a 10w30 with the same or very similar pour point of around -35F in 2 different vehicles, and the ambient temp is -0F; when you cold start both vehicles at -0F and then drive them till they reach their normal operating temps, would not the 10w oil provide better protection then 5w oil because both oils are pumping just fine but the 10w has a thicker viscosity?
Its more a question than a statement.
Pour point is largely irrelevant, CCS and MRV are the numbers that define cold temperature performance. What Pour Point can be used for is a rough indication of the quality of base stocks the oil is comprised of. An oil with an extremely low pour point like AMSOIL's 0w-40, which has a pour point of -60, indicates a significant portion of PAO in the base, which has naturally exceptional cold temperature performance. PAO is not required to meet a specific W designation, but it doesn't gel because it doesn't have any wax, so even if viscosity-wise, it fails MRV (it won't pump), it would still pour.
For your example, try to look at it like two curves that go from heavy (cold) to thin (hot). Assuming both oils have the same hot viscosity being xW-30's, the slope on the 5w-30 is going to be less sharp than the 10w-30. A 0w-30 would be less sharp still. And then we could toss a wrench into the mix and put in a Euro 0w-30 that would be thicker than all of them for the entire curve until we approach the CCS and MRV limits for the 5w-30 and 10w-30.
That help?
I understand the w for winter is a theoretical weight of measure.
No, it isn't. The "W" designation simply indicates an oil's ability to pump and not impact cranking speed at specific temperatures.
Think of it as two bars, one far more strict than the other, that indicate a ceiling for a designation.
As an oil cools, it thickens. They all do. When you get a ways below 0C, testing via CCS and MRV, viscosity roughly doubles for every 5C drop in temperature. As soon as an oil crests the ceiling for CCS viscosity for a designation, that sets its W rating. Likewise, if it exceeds the MRV limit, it would receive the next grade up. From what I've observed, it seems to be CCS that generally is exceeded first.
Look at SAE J300:
Say we had an oil that was 6,000cP at -25C tested via CCS. At -30C, that oil would be ~12,000cP, meaning it would be above the limit for the 5w-xx designation (6,600cp) so it is then assigned the 10w-xx rating unless for some wacky reason it's >60,000cP @ -30C on the MRV test.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
What I was posing is something like this: If you have a 5w30 and a 10w30 with the same or very similar pour point of around -35F in 2 different vehicles, and the ambient temp is -0F; when you cold start both vehicles at -0F and then drive them till they reach their normal operating temps, would not the 10w oil provide better protection then 5w oil because both oils are pumping just fine but the 10w has a thicker viscosity?
Its more a question than a statement.
Pour point is largely irrelevant, CCS and MRV are the numbers that define cold temperature performance. What Pour Point can be used for is a rough indication of the quality of base stocks the oil is comprised of. An oil with an extremely low pour point like AMSOIL's 0w-40, which has a pour point of -60, indicates a significant portion of PAO in the base, which has naturally exceptional cold temperature performance. PAO is not required to meet a specific W designation, but it doesn't gel because it doesn't have any wax, so even if viscosity-wise, it fails MRV (it won't pump), it would still pour.
For your example, try to look at it like two curves that go from heavy (cold) to thin (hot). Assuming both oils have the same hot viscosity being xW-30's, the slope on the 5w-30 is going to be less sharp than the 10w-30. A 0w-30 would be less sharp still. And then we could toss a wrench into the mix and put in a Euro 0w-30 that would be thicker than all of them for the entire curve until we approach the CCS and MRV limits for the 5w-30 and 10w-30.
That help?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
Thats why i did not hesitate to mix 1 quart of m1 0w20ep with 5quarts of pp 10w30
I would be concerned that the influx of a majority PAO-based lube would simply dilute the PPD's and VII's of the 10w-30, potentially not achieving any improvement in cold temperature performance but just lower overall viscosity.
Those are two very different oils, based very differently. It's unfortunate that CCS/MRV testing wasn't more affordable, as it would be interesting to see how these types of blends perform.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
Thats why i did not hesitate to mix 1 quart of m1 0w20ep with 5quarts of pp 10w30
I would be concerned that the influx of a majority PAO-based lube would simply dilute the PPD's and VII's of the 10w-30, potentially not achieving any improvement in cold temperature performance but just lower overall viscosity.
Those are two very different oils, based very differently. It's unfortunate that CCS/MRV testing wasn't more affordable, as it would be interesting to see how these types of blends perform.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
Thats why i did not hesitate to mix 1 quart of m1 0w20ep with 5quarts of pp 10w30
I would be concerned that the influx of a majority PAO-based lube would simply dilute the PPD's and VII's of the 10w-30, potentially not achieving any improvement in cold temperature performance but just lower overall viscosity.
Those are two very different oils, based very differently. It's unfortunate that CCS/MRV testing wasn't more affordable, as it would be interesting to see how these types of blends perform.
There is not a whole lot of vii in pp 10w30.
The blends ccs should be less or equal to that of pp 10w30.
By how much exactly i cant say.
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
From - Modern heavy duty disel engine cold start wear study
"This study has demonstrated a correlation between relative average cylinder liner wear rates at low engine start-up temperatures, base oil composition and oil viscosity. Low viscosity full synthetic PAO-based SAE 5W40 oils showed distinct benefits in pumpability and lower relative wear rates when compared not only to SAE 15WX/10WX full mineral and part synthetic oils but also to an SAE 5W40 grade oil based on VHVI base stocks"
How much would the higher wear decrease engine life by though ?
Given PAO's natural cold temperature advantages, which means very little or no PPD's and VII's, that's really not all that surprising IMHO.
Thats why i did not hesitate to mix 1 quart of m1 0w20ep with 5quarts of pp 10w30
I would be concerned that the influx of a majority PAO-based lube would simply dilute the PPD's and VII's of the 10w-30, potentially not achieving any improvement in cold temperature performance but just lower overall viscosity.
Those are two very different oils, based very differently. It's unfortunate that CCS/MRV testing wasn't more affordable, as it would be interesting to see how these types of blends perform.
There is not a whole lot of vii in pp 10w30.
The blends ccs should be less or equal to that of pp 10w30.
By how much exactly i cant say.
Everyone needs to read this until they understand it, that is a very good explanation.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
I understand the w for winter is a theoretical weight of measure.
No, it isn't. The "W" designation simply indicates an oil's ability to pump and not impact cranking speed at specific temperatures.
Think of it as two bars, one far more strict than the other, that indicate a ceiling for a designation.
As an oil cools, it thickens. They all do. When you get a ways below 0C, testing via CCS and MRV, viscosity roughly doubles for every 5C drop in temperature. As soon as an oil crests the ceiling for CCS viscosity for a designation, that sets its W rating. Likewise, if it exceeds the MRV limit, it would receive the next grade up. From what I've observed, it seems to be CCS that generally is exceeded first.
Look at SAE J300:
Say we had an oil that was 6,000cP at -25C tested via CCS. At -30C, that oil would be ~12,000cP, meaning it would be above the limit for the 5w-xx designation (6,600cp) so it is then assigned the 10w-xx rating unless for some wacky reason it's >60,000cP @ -30C on the MRV test.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
What I was posing is something like this: If you have a 5w30 and a 10w30 with the same or very similar pour point of around -35F in 2 different vehicles, and the ambient temp is -0F; when you cold start both vehicles at -0F and then drive them till they reach their normal operating temps, would not the 10w oil provide better protection then 5w oil because both oils are pumping just fine but the 10w has a thicker viscosity?
Its more a question than a statement.
Pour point is largely irrelevant, CCS and MRV are the numbers that define cold temperature performance. What Pour Point can be used for is a rough indication of the quality of base stocks the oil is comprised of. An oil with an extremely low pour point like AMSOIL's 0w-40, which has a pour point of -60, indicates a significant portion of PAO in the base, which has naturally exceptional cold temperature performance. PAO is not required to meet a specific W designation, but it doesn't gel because it doesn't have any wax, so even if viscosity-wise, it fails MRV (it won't pump), it would still pour.
For your example, try to look at it like two curves that go from heavy (cold) to thin (hot). Assuming both oils have the same hot viscosity being xW-30's, the slope on the 5w-30 is going to be less sharp than the 10w-30. A 0w-30 would be less sharp still. And then we could toss a wrench into the mix and put in a Euro 0w-30 that would be thicker than all of them for the entire curve until we approach the CCS and MRV limits for the 5w-30 and 10w-30.
That help?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
I understand the w for winter is a theoretical weight of measure.
No, it isn't. The "W" designation simply indicates an oil's ability to pump and not impact cranking speed at specific temperatures.
Think of it as two bars, one far more strict than the other, that indicate a ceiling for a designation.
As an oil cools, it thickens. They all do. When you get a ways below 0C, testing via CCS and MRV, viscosity roughly doubles for every 5C drop in temperature. As soon as an oil crests the ceiling for CCS viscosity for a designation, that sets its W rating. Likewise, if it exceeds the MRV limit, it would receive the next grade up. From what I've observed, it seems to be CCS that generally is exceeded first.
Look at SAE J300:
Say we had an oil that was 6,000cP at -25C tested via CCS. At -30C, that oil would be ~12,000cP, meaning it would be above the limit for the 5w-xx designation (6,600cp) so it is then assigned the 10w-xx rating unless for some wacky reason it's >60,000cP @ -30C on the MRV test.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
What I was posing is something like this: If you have a 5w30 and a 10w30 with the same or very similar pour point of around -35F in 2 different vehicles, and the ambient temp is -0F; when you cold start both vehicles at -0F and then drive them till they reach their normal operating temps, would not the 10w oil provide better protection then 5w oil because both oils are pumping just fine but the 10w has a thicker viscosity?
Its more a question than a statement.
Pour point is largely irrelevant, CCS and MRV are the numbers that define cold temperature performance. What Pour Point can be used for is a rough indication of the quality of base stocks the oil is comprised of. An oil with an extremely low pour point like AMSOIL's 0w-40, which has a pour point of -60, indicates a significant portion of PAO in the base, which has naturally exceptional cold temperature performance. PAO is not required to meet a specific W designation, but it doesn't gel because it doesn't have any wax, so even if viscosity-wise, it fails MRV (it won't pump), it would still pour.
For your example, try to look at it like two curves that go from heavy (cold) to thin (hot). Assuming both oils have the same hot viscosity being xW-30's, the slope on the 5w-30 is going to be less sharp than the 10w-30. A 0w-30 would be less sharp still. And then we could toss a wrench into the mix and put in a Euro 0w-30 that would be thicker than all of them for the entire curve until we approach the CCS and MRV limits for the 5w-30 and 10w-30.
That help?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
There is not a whole lot of vii in pp 10w30.
The blends ccs should be less or equal to that of pp 10w30.
By how much exactly i cant say.
I doubt there's a lot in it either, but it would likely be different than what is used in the Mobil product, as it is a very different oil. How they interact? We have no idea.
There is not a whole lot of vii in pp 10w30.
The blends ccs should be less or equal to that of pp 10w30.
By how much exactly i cant say.
I doubt there's a lot in it either, but it would likely be different than what is used in the Mobil product, as it is a very different oil. How they interact? We have no idea.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
There is not a whole lot of vii in pp 10w30.
The blends ccs should be less or equal to that of pp 10w30.
By how much exactly i cant say.
I doubt there's a lot in it either, but it would likely be different than what is used in the Mobil product, as it is a very different oil. How they interact? We have no idea.
Exactly. I still am lost on when this is ever a good idea.
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
There is not a whole lot of vii in pp 10w30.
The blends ccs should be less or equal to that of pp 10w30.
By how much exactly i cant say.
I doubt there's a lot in it either, but it would likely be different than what is used in the Mobil product, as it is a very different oil. How they interact? We have no idea.
Exactly. I still am lost on when this is ever a good idea.
My wife's cars have been parked inside an unheated attached garage. '02 dodge status V6 170k sold : '07 Saturn Aura v6 140k sold : 2014 Buick Regal Turbo 40k current. My Trucks not so Lucky, all parked outside : 2006 Buick Rainier I-6 orig. owner 186k runs great : 2002 suburban 5.3 212k runs good. : No wimpy batteries allowed : Deka / AGM / etc..
Along with Shannow's suggestion to replace the number after the dash with HTHS, I would also suggest we get rid of the number before the "W" and replace it (and maybe the W too) with a letter. Kind of like the tire ratings. That might help to eliminate the confusion over what that portion of the grade designation represents.
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