Is milk pasteurized to make bottling easier and shipping and storage cheaper and less hampered by controls and restrictions? Today at the grocery store shelf life is more important than quality.
Real milk
- Thread starter 53' Stude
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Is milk pasteurized to make bottling easier and shipping and storage cheaper and less hampered by controls and restrictions? Today at the grocery store shelf life is more important than quality.
No it is to keep you from dying from drinking raw milk. Bacteria like Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella is in raw milk. Fortunately these are all heat sensitive and that is why they pasteurize milk, to kill pathogenic bacteria.
Ultra High Temp pasteurized milk gets hot enough to kill the spoilage bacteria and that's why regular milk even under refrigeration will still go bad.
Is milk pasteurized to make bottling easier and shipping and storage cheaper and less hampered by controls and restrictions? Today at the grocery store shelf life is more important than quality.
No it is to keep you from dying from drinking raw milk. Bacteria like Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella is in raw milk. Fortunately these are all heat sensitive and that is why they pasteurize milk, to kill pathogenic bacteria.
Ultra High Temp pasteurized milk gets hot enough to kill the spoilage bacteria and that's why regular milk even under refrigeration will still go bad.
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Yea tell that to the animal nutritionist - main goal of a dairy is to get maximum milk production and it starts with genetics closely followed by diet. If the cows aren't fed the right diet the dairyman isn't making money.
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Yea tell that to the animal nutritionist - main goal of a dairy is to get maximum milk production and it starts with genetics closely followed by diet. If the cows aren't fed the right diet the dairyman isn't making money.
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Yea tell that to the animal nutritionist - main goal of a dairy is to get maximum milk production and it starts with genetics closely followed by diet. If the cows aren't fed the right diet the dairyman isn't making money.
Yes, the animal nutritionist's job is to maximize profits, nothing more or less.
A happy healthy cow with the genetics and food quality to be able to breed for even 6 years isn't profitable as it can't produce the volume a young cow can. Pump and dump is the most profitable way if no one cares about milk nutritional quality and animal welfare...
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Yea tell that to the animal nutritionist - main goal of a dairy is to get maximum milk production and it starts with genetics closely followed by diet. If the cows aren't fed the right diet the dairyman isn't making money.
Yes, the animal nutritionist's job is to maximize profits, nothing more or less.
A happy healthy cow with the genetics and food quality to be able to breed for even 6 years isn't profitable as it can't produce the volume a young cow can. Pump and dump is the most profitable way if no one cares about milk nutritional quality and animal welfare...
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Yea tell that to the animal nutritionist - main goal of a dairy is to get maximum milk production and it starts with genetics closely followed by diet. If the cows aren't fed the right diet the dairyman isn't making money.
Yes, the animal nutritionist's job is to maximize profits, nothing more or less.
A happy healthy cow with the genetics and food quality to be able to breed for even 6 years isn't profitable as it can't produce the volume a young cow can. Pump and dump is the most profitable way if no one cares about milk nutritional quality and animal welfare...
Correct. Obviously cows wouldn't naturally bunch up in pens and eat GMO grain for their own good.
Edit. I'm also not sure dairymen are making any money with the current commodity system. Modern agriculture is a pretty poor system. Farmers don't make much. Consumers get a poor product. The huge food corps are raking in the money however.
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
If you can get grassfed milk, try that. Modern dairy farms feed cows all sorts of stuff that isn't great for them or you.
Yea tell that to the animal nutritionist - main goal of a dairy is to get maximum milk production and it starts with genetics closely followed by diet. If the cows aren't fed the right diet the dairyman isn't making money.
Yes, the animal nutritionist's job is to maximize profits, nothing more or less.
A happy healthy cow with the genetics and food quality to be able to breed for even 6 years isn't profitable as it can't produce the volume a young cow can. Pump and dump is the most profitable way if no one cares about milk nutritional quality and animal welfare...
Correct. Obviously cows wouldn't naturally bunch up in pens and eat GMO grain for their own good.
Edit. I'm also not sure dairymen are making any money with the current commodity system. Modern agriculture is a pretty poor system. Farmers don't make much. Consumers get a poor product. The huge food corps are raking in the money however.
Last edited:
And those cows with the right diet and treatment are in general happier, thus giving more milk. So it is in the dairyman's best interest to keep them happy through any means within reason and affordable.
Milk is a commodity item so in order to be competitive you have to keep costs down. Most people can't afford botique grass fed milk, therefore the market will be really small and the average dairyman couldn't make a living off of milk that is grass fed.
Milk is a commodity item so in order to be competitive you have to keep costs down. Most people can't afford botique grass fed milk, therefore the market will be really small and the average dairyman couldn't make a living off of milk that is grass fed.
Sorry guy. What makes animals "happy" and what makes money in the industrial ag system are two different things.
It's always funny to see the word "affordable" brought up when most of the food in a supermarket is high priced value added processed junk.
It's always funny to see the word "affordable" brought up when most of the food in a supermarket is high priced value added processed junk.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hatt
Sorry guy. What makes animals "happy" and what makes money in the industrial ag system are two different things.
It's always funny to see the word "affordable" brought up when most of the food in a supermarket is high priced value added processed junk.
In the case of milk cows it does. Don't treat the animals right, letting them get sick and not feeding them the right diet all has an impact.
High priced? The US spends the smallest percentage of income on food compared to other countries.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/this-map-shows-how-much-each-country-spends-on-food/
If you don't like value added processed junk then don't buy it.
Sorry guy. What makes animals "happy" and what makes money in the industrial ag system are two different things.
It's always funny to see the word "affordable" brought up when most of the food in a supermarket is high priced value added processed junk.
In the case of milk cows it does. Don't treat the animals right, letting them get sick and not feeding them the right diet all has an impact.
High priced? The US spends the smallest percentage of income on food compared to other countries.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/this-map-shows-how-much-each-country-spends-on-food/
If you don't like value added processed junk then don't buy it.
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
Originally Posted By: hatt
Sorry guy. What makes animals "happy" and what makes money in the industrial ag system are two different things.
It's always funny to see the word "affordable" brought up when most of the food in a supermarket is high priced value added processed junk.
In the case of milk cows it does. Don't treat the animals right, letting them get sick and not feeding them the right diet all has an impact.
High priced? The US spends the smallest percentage of income on food compared to other countries.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/this-map-shows-how-much-each-country-spends-on-food/
If you don't like value added processed junk then don't buy it.
We spend the least on food and the most on healthcare. Surely a coincidence. And don't worry. I don't buy that junk. It's just funny seeing people complain about the cost of quality food while buying $.05 worth of grain product for $2.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Sorry guy. What makes animals "happy" and what makes money in the industrial ag system are two different things.
It's always funny to see the word "affordable" brought up when most of the food in a supermarket is high priced value added processed junk.
In the case of milk cows it does. Don't treat the animals right, letting them get sick and not feeding them the right diet all has an impact.
High priced? The US spends the smallest percentage of income on food compared to other countries.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/this-map-shows-how-much-each-country-spends-on-food/
If you don't like value added processed junk then don't buy it.
We spend the least on food and the most on healthcare. Surely a coincidence. And don't worry. I don't buy that junk. It's just funny seeing people complain about the cost of quality food while buying $.05 worth of grain product for $2.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
And those cows with the right diet and treatment are in general happier, thus giving more milk. So it is in the dairyman's best interest to keep them happy through any means within reason and affordable.
Milk is a commodity item so in order to be competitive you have to keep costs down. Most people can't afford botique grass fed milk, therefore the market will be really small and the average dairyman couldn't make a living off of milk that is grass fed.
Take something that (although absolutely un-needed by the human body) has some reasonable minerals and fatty acids (pasture fed beef/milk), convince people that they need to drink it by the gallon, then destroy the nutritional benefits via feedlot farming to keep consumption high and prices low.
It's a stupid farce.
And those cows with the right diet and treatment are in general happier, thus giving more milk. So it is in the dairyman's best interest to keep them happy through any means within reason and affordable.
Milk is a commodity item so in order to be competitive you have to keep costs down. Most people can't afford botique grass fed milk, therefore the market will be really small and the average dairyman couldn't make a living off of milk that is grass fed.
Take something that (although absolutely un-needed by the human body) has some reasonable minerals and fatty acids (pasture fed beef/milk), convince people that they need to drink it by the gallon, then destroy the nutritional benefits via feedlot farming to keep consumption high and prices low.
It's a stupid farce.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
And those cows with the right diet and treatment are in general happier, thus giving more milk. So it is in the dairyman's best interest to keep them happy through any means within reason and affordable.
Milk is a commodity item so in order to be competitive you have to keep costs down. Most people can't afford botique grass fed milk, therefore the market will be really small and the average dairyman couldn't make a living off of milk that is grass fed.
Take something that (although absolutely un-needed by the human body) has some reasonable minerals and fatty acids (pasture fed beef/milk), convince people that they need to drink it by the gallon, then destroy the nutritional benefits via feedlot farming to keep consumption high and prices low.
It's a stupid farce.
It is. They take the expensive cream out, sell it for the same price, and you're left with sugar water that you then pour over your bowl of cereal that has $.25 worth of raw materials and no nutritional value that you paid $3.99 for.
Originally Posted By: SVTCobra
And those cows with the right diet and treatment are in general happier, thus giving more milk. So it is in the dairyman's best interest to keep them happy through any means within reason and affordable.
Milk is a commodity item so in order to be competitive you have to keep costs down. Most people can't afford botique grass fed milk, therefore the market will be really small and the average dairyman couldn't make a living off of milk that is grass fed.
Take something that (although absolutely un-needed by the human body) has some reasonable minerals and fatty acids (pasture fed beef/milk), convince people that they need to drink it by the gallon, then destroy the nutritional benefits via feedlot farming to keep consumption high and prices low.
It's a stupid farce.
It is. They take the expensive cream out, sell it for the same price, and you're left with sugar water that you then pour over your bowl of cereal that has $.25 worth of raw materials and no nutritional value that you paid $3.99 for.
Leave it to BITOG to have a debate about milk and treatment about the cows...
Car51, I haven't had "real" milk from a dairy in a long time. Neighboring county (Franklin) is one of the biggest producers in PA, I think I need to find one that sells to the public like that!
Car51, I haven't had "real" milk from a dairy in a long time. Neighboring county (Franklin) is one of the biggest producers in PA, I think I need to find one that sells to the public like that!
Originally Posted By: Delta
Leave it to BITOG to have a debate about milk and treatment about the cows...
Car51, I haven't had "real" milk from a dairy in a long time. Neighboring county (Franklin) is one of the biggest producers in PA, I think I need to find one that sells to the public like that!
Delta, there is dairy in Butler County north of me that still sells raw milk also
I love Bruntons Dairy buttermilk as its 4.5%
Leave it to BITOG to have a debate about milk and treatment about the cows...
Car51, I haven't had "real" milk from a dairy in a long time. Neighboring county (Franklin) is one of the biggest producers in PA, I think I need to find one that sells to the public like that!
Delta, there is dairy in Butler County north of me that still sells raw milk also
I love Bruntons Dairy buttermilk as its 4.5%
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Take something that (although absolutely un-needed by the human body) has some reasonable minerals and fatty acids (pasture fed beef/milk), convince people that they need to drink it by the gallon, then destroy the nutritional benefits via feedlot farming to keep consumption high and prices low.
It's a stupid farce.
Won't argue about the need for people to drink milk but the only thing I could find about nutritional benefits of grass fed vs grain fed is that there are some more omega 3 and 6 fatty acids. If you are looking for omega 3 and 6 fatty acids there are several other sources that are much richer in those like nuts, fish, flax seed, olive oils, etc. Once again the average person can't afford grass fed milk and won't want to buy it either as most people in the US are accustomed to the taste of grain fed milk.
Originally Posted By: hatt
It is. They take the expensive cream out, sell it for the same price, and you're left with sugar water that you then pour over your bowl of cereal that has $.25 worth of raw materials and no nutritional value that you paid $3.99 for.
I would suggest buying whole milk then. In the US the minimum milk fat content has to be 3.25%. 94% of the dairy herd is Holstein and when I worked at a cheese plant the average percent of fat in the raw incoming milk was around 3.5 to 3.6%. So I am not seeing how they are taking out all of the expensive cream and selling sugar water.
25 cents? Maybe one cereal on the entire shelf is this expensive, but since most products have inclusions like raisins, marshmallows, or is granola; there is no way its 25 cents. The only thing that could that cheap is corn flakes or rice krispies, and those don't sell for 3.99. I found a 24 oz box of Great Value corn flakes for $2.86. There is still transportation, energy, processing, labor, distribution, depreciation, capital expense, technical knowledge that are trade secrets (worth some money) and profit. When you consider that the cost of equipment for making cereal is in the tens of millions and all other associated costs I'm surprised at how cheap the food really is. The average net profit margin for a lot of food companies is hovering around 15-18%, so they aren't getting rich off of unsuspecting buyers of cereal.
Take something that (although absolutely un-needed by the human body) has some reasonable minerals and fatty acids (pasture fed beef/milk), convince people that they need to drink it by the gallon, then destroy the nutritional benefits via feedlot farming to keep consumption high and prices low.
It's a stupid farce.
Won't argue about the need for people to drink milk but the only thing I could find about nutritional benefits of grass fed vs grain fed is that there are some more omega 3 and 6 fatty acids. If you are looking for omega 3 and 6 fatty acids there are several other sources that are much richer in those like nuts, fish, flax seed, olive oils, etc. Once again the average person can't afford grass fed milk and won't want to buy it either as most people in the US are accustomed to the taste of grain fed milk.
Originally Posted By: hatt
It is. They take the expensive cream out, sell it for the same price, and you're left with sugar water that you then pour over your bowl of cereal that has $.25 worth of raw materials and no nutritional value that you paid $3.99 for.
I would suggest buying whole milk then. In the US the minimum milk fat content has to be 3.25%. 94% of the dairy herd is Holstein and when I worked at a cheese plant the average percent of fat in the raw incoming milk was around 3.5 to 3.6%. So I am not seeing how they are taking out all of the expensive cream and selling sugar water.
25 cents? Maybe one cereal on the entire shelf is this expensive, but since most products have inclusions like raisins, marshmallows, or is granola; there is no way its 25 cents. The only thing that could that cheap is corn flakes or rice krispies, and those don't sell for 3.99. I found a 24 oz box of Great Value corn flakes for $2.86. There is still transportation, energy, processing, labor, distribution, depreciation, capital expense, technical knowledge that are trade secrets (worth some money) and profit. When you consider that the cost of equipment for making cereal is in the tens of millions and all other associated costs I'm surprised at how cheap the food really is. The average net profit margin for a lot of food companies is hovering around 15-18%, so they aren't getting rich off of unsuspecting buyers of cereal.
Most people are buying slim, 1%, and 2% that they were told to buy by big food/FDA. The products now shown to be inferior to whole milk but more profitable.
LOL at bringing up Walmart brand as the last word on food pricing. Or a couple oz of raisins. A bushel(56 lbs) of corn is currently $4. You do the math. That's a lot of corn flakes.
That's the funny thing about food. You don't needs tens of millions of $$$ worth of equipment and trade secrets to produce quality food. You need all that $$$ to turn cheap commodities into something resembling food that people will buy.
LOL at bringing up Walmart brand as the last word on food pricing. Or a couple oz of raisins. A bushel(56 lbs) of corn is currently $4. You do the math. That's a lot of corn flakes.
That's the funny thing about food. You don't needs tens of millions of $$$ worth of equipment and trade secrets to produce quality food. You need all that $$$ to turn cheap commodities into something resembling food that people will buy.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Most people are buying slim, 1%, and 2% that they were told to buy by big food/FDA. The products now shown to be inferior to whole milk but more profitable.
It must differ by parts of the country. Where I live, I notice that the cooler section is filled about equal with whole and 2%, leaving a very small section for 1% and skim.
Most people are buying slim, 1%, and 2% that they were told to buy by big food/FDA. The products now shown to be inferior to whole milk but more profitable.
It must differ by parts of the country. Where I live, I notice that the cooler section is filled about equal with whole and 2%, leaving a very small section for 1% and skim.
I drink my coffee with a little whole milk.
I also eat very little cereal, when I do its peanut butter Captain Crunch... which surprisingly both my dogs beg for it after they sampled it.
I also eat very little cereal, when I do its peanut butter Captain Crunch... which surprisingly both my dogs beg for it after they sampled it.
- Status
