Ravenol RUP 5W40 with Liqui Moly Ceratec

[kschachn]

"Dangerous" and "lawsuit" are a bit much I'd say....I don't think this will have that kind of an impact yes, they should add a warning if they think it doesn't work well with some oils/additives.

I'd say the words are accurate, if a company advertises that a product will cause no harm but in fact it will then that seems like a problem to me. Nowhere in any published literature do I see that someone should not use these products together yet the Amazon reply says it can cause damage.

Molygen is API licensed SP, among other things that means it passes ASTM D6922. I'd say that quoted text from the Amazon site is completely bogus or at the very least made by a misinformed Liqui Moly representative. I'm not sure I'd believe anything in those Amazon Q&A posts.

I really struggle with the notion that a company like Liqui Moly would sell a product that when added to (some) oils would be damaging.

 

[TiGeo]

I'd say the words are accurate, if a company advertises that a product will cause no harm but in fact it will then that seems like a problem to me. Nowhere in any published literature do I see that someone should not use these products together yet the Amazon reply says it can cause damage.

Molygen is API licensed SP, among other things that means it passes ASTM D6922. I'd say that quoted text from the Amazon site is completely bogus or at the very least made by a misinformed Liqui Moly representative. I'm not sure I'd believe anything in those Amazon Q&A posts.

I really struggle with the notion that a company like Liqui Moly would sell a product that when added to (some) oils would be damaging.

Maybe a better way to say it is "Using Ceratec with Molygen isn't ideal but also won't ruin your engine if you do it". What I've heard from their folks online is just that, you don't have to run out and drain your oil, it's just not ideal. You can watch their IG live bits from their IG page and see this discussed a lot in QAs with their tech folks and that seems to be the consensus - not ideal but also won't ruin anything and maybe that's why it isn't listed as a warning. Who knows?

 

[PimTac]

I always wonder if there is some unintended competition when you have multiple components trying to do the same thing?

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

I always wonder if there is some unintended competition when you have multiple components trying to do the same thing?

Just run it 1000 miles before your oil change. Then the hBN lasts 30k miles, but you lose the effect of the extra moly. Just run Archoil 9100 instead I guess in that scenario.

 

[PimTac]

Just run it 1000 miles before your oil change. Then the hBN lasts 30k miles, but you lose the effect of the extra moly. Just run Archoil 9100 instead I guess in that scenario.

That seems to go opposite of my thought.

You have this Ravenol oil that you’ve spent $$$ on. Why not stick with that? Adding Ceratec and Archoil and whatever else comes to mind is counterproductive for the reason you got the Ravenol.

More is not better.

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

Yeah, you're right. The Ravenol seems to be already golden. Gilding the lily so to speak. Here's the full quote because why not, internet.

"To gild refined gold, to paint the lily, / To throw a perfume on the violet, / To smooth the ice, or add another hue / Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light / To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish, / Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.”

 

[ChristianReske]

Ceratec is known as a pure antiwear additive. No Hokus-Pokus.
The only Problem i have with Ceratec is the advice from LM to ad 6% Ceratec. In my oppinion, 2 ~ 3% is enough.
Its is not usefull for the few racing Oils that allready have a lot of Bor, Tungsten, Moly inside. But i think 95% oft the "over the shelf" engine oils worldwide dosent have this and a little bit of of Ceratec cant be wrong.

Ravenol is known in the german Oil forum for severe shearing down one grade within no time. I would not use it. Do a UOA and report back, please.

Marketing:
Something to think about:
Motul has claimed to sell Full-Synth (Group IV) Oils in Germany, while the oil really was group III. They lost on Court and have re-labeld all their jugs for Germany. The clearly tried to play games with customers.
Ravenol claims to bei "Ultra strong Viscosity", but the UOAs in the german Oil club forum shows that this oil looses vioscositiy in no time.

LM never had such problems... the where allways honest and produce average, decent oils, and are market leader in germany 10 Years in a row.

 

[750IX]

Thanks for your feedback, i will send an UOA and report back. The Ravenol Rup has several approvals like BMW LL04 and Porsche A40. Isn't viscocity after some use a part of a test to get an approval from BMW, Porsche or Mercedes?

I dont know how many miles "Longlife" is, i do 5k miles OC but i guess it must last 10-15k miles to get an LL04 approval?

Do you have any examples from the German oil forum? Would be happy to see, thanks

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks for your feedback, i will send an UOA and report back. The Ravenol Rup has several approvals like BMW LL04 and Porsche A40. Isn't viscocity after some use a part of a test to get an approval from BMW, Porsche or Mercedes?

I dont know how many miles "Longlife" is, i do 5k miles OC but i guess it must last 10-15k miles to get an LL04 approval?

Do you have any examples from the German oil forum? Would be happy to see, thanks

Yes, most of the Euro approvals have stay in grade specs or viscosity loss limits that the product is obviously compliant with.

 

[Revving2Redline]

If you open you manual it says no additives whatsoever.
Get good oil and that is it. Ravenol will cut it.

If you read the manual it says the transmission fluid is lifetime and doesn't need to be changed. It might be formulated but what if he decides to run it on a racetrack for a weekend or in a way that isn't recommended by the manufacturer?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I was thinking about copper 1 and lead 0, they were impressively low qoute from Blackstone. Good sign reguarding bearings, i give the Credit to ceratec

Ravenol makes some of the highest-rated, most specifically targeted oils of any manufacturer and they are very clear they do not recommend any additives at all. Considering that Ravenol’s VOAs usually show near the top of all the beneficial additives (in RUP it’s moly, boron & tungsten), IMO there’s absolutely nothing to gain but plenty to lose if the Ceratec causes fallout or other compatibility issues.

Ask yourself, if LM truly believed Ceratec was their best additive in every oil, why do they not sell a single oil that is blended with Ceratec?

If you were buying a house oil, I’d say you may see some improvement in additive levels in the UOA, but honestly there are very few UOAs that show even minor wear improvements when moly & other FMs are introduced by additive. It’s your money, but rest assured you’ll get the same benefit as simply burning your $25 as you will adding it to the Ravenol.

 

[ron17571]

I keep reading about people using really expensive synthetic oil and saying it makes their engine last longer, or run better, so why not add something expensive to your oil change? I think multiple oil improvers may be the ticket. Maybe buying every brand of oil and blending them together would be a good idea also. Just joking, I put ceratec in my van a few thousand miles ago to help out with cold starts and the occasional noisy engine in below-zero weather.

 

[edyvw]

If you read the manual it says the transmission fluid is lifetime and doesn't need to be changed. It might be formulated but what if he decides to run it on a racetrack for a weekend or in a way that isn't recommended by the manufacturer?

This forum is serious enough to understand that that is comparing apples to oranges. Additives are changing chemical composition of oil. Changing fluid does not.

 

[Revving2Redline]

This forum is serious enough to understand that that is comparing apples to oranges. Additives are changing chemical composition of oil. Changing fluid does not.

I found this article/finding of Motul 300V being used along with an additive and some improvement was found. I'm not here to argue by any means but you can't completely say that there isn't room for improvement by adding certain materials in conservative amounts. Everything made is made to a price point. Doesn't matter how good it is someone can improve it when cost isn't involved and they understand the composition of both the lubricant oil and the additive.

 

[OVERKILL]

I found this article/finding of Motul 300V being used along with an additive and some improvement was found. I'm not here to argue by any means but you can't completely say that there isn't room for improvement by adding certain materials in conservative amounts. Everything made is made to a price point. Doesn't matter how good it is someone can improve it when cost isn't involved and they understand the composition of both the lubricant oil and the additive.

So not a test performed by an independent 3rd party then. It's quite easy to go looking for the results you want and finding them.

The best performance will always come from a fully formulated product. Why? Because you can account for all the ingredients, their concentrations, synergies and test it as a finished lubricant.

Adding some concentrate that's blended a certain way to a fully formulated product that you have no control over the formulation of simply cannot guarantee improvement in any of the myriad performance parameters that are tested for during development.

This is like selling premium "cable ends" for speaker wires and guaranteeing huge gains in audio quality. Even if we take the claims that they improve the connection at face value, you do not have sufficient knowledge or control over the rest of the system to make that sort of promise, which is premised on the cable/speaker and cable/amp interface being deficient (or the FM chemistry being deficient with the product in question). It's insanely myopic at best, grossly misleading or downright deceptive at worst.

 

[edyvw]

I found this article/finding of Motul 300V being used along with an additive and some improvement was found. I'm not here to argue by any means but you can't completely say that there isn't room for improvement by adding certain materials in conservative amounts. Everything made is made to a price point. Doesn't matter how good it is someone can improve it when cost isn't involved and they understand the composition of both the lubricant oil and the additive.

What improvement? Do you actually know what improvement? Oils are different in composition. Adding additives will have different reaction with different oils.
Additives are also made at price point. And 300V is not street oil. 300V is racing oil that is designed for specific use by those that know what exactly they want to get out of it. 300V is track weapon, not street oil designed for regular engines that should do 10k OCI etc. If you are using 300V manufacturers recommendations are absolutely irrelevant.

Now point where I would not touch that product with 10ft pole is drop in temperature from 105 to 95c. That is only possible to achieve with oil radiator.
Scammers.

 

[Gentleman farmer]

This is like selling premium "cable ends" for speaker wires and guaranteeing huge gains in audio quality. Even if we take the claims that they improve the connection at face value, you do not have sufficient knowledge or control over the rest of the system to make that sort of promise, which is premised on the cable/speaker and cable/amp interface being deficient (or the FM chemistry being deficient with the product in question). It's insanely myopic at best, grossly misleading or downright deceptive at worst.

Come on, everyone knows that a premium cable will make the signal silkier, warmer, cleaner (you can also insert any non-measurable adjective of your choice here). In the same way that extra flavorings will enhance the taste of a perfectly crafted whisky(ey). And i'm not implying that because you're from Canada, haha.

 

[sk_pete]

Actually, the Molygen 5W40 is slightly cheaper typically than the popular Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 so by the time you add Ceratec, it's quite a bit cheaper to just run the Molygen with the tungsten-based friction modifier "MFC" in it.

Di/tri alkyl ammonium tungstate, liquid stuff with many benefits.
Ceratec is "chemically inert dust" in oil, it will settle down. Like a Teflon.
That doesn't belong in new car. Fine mesh, filters on vvt etc.

https://eurol.com/product_img/PI/EG_E802315_PI.pdf

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Di/tri alkyl ammonium tungstate, liquid stuff with many benefits.
Ceratec is "chemically inert dust" in oil, it will settle down. Like a Teflon.
That doesn't belong in new car. Fine mesh, filters on vvt etc.

https://eurol.com/product_img/PI/EG_E802315_PI.pdf

Does Eurol offer a fully-formulated oil with this supplement in it? If not, ask yourself why?

 

[sk_pete]

Does Eurol offer a fully-formulated oil with this supplement in it? If not, ask yourself why?

Chicken-egg problem
Why complicate your life as oilmaker taking brand new additive, doing on your own all the expensive paperwork and tests.
If you can take validated and tested recipe (infineum,..) fill your bottles and slap certificates on it.

Tungsten so far i see in ravenol vst, and Molygen additive + their green oils. A non zero situation.