Full synthetic 0W40 or 5W40’s with both high moly and high boron additive pack?

Status
Not open for further replies.
V

VQAndrew

Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
19
Location
Metro Detroit Michigan
Those two additives really quiet down the Gen 3 Ford 5.0 Coyote ticking (and of course that’s what Liquimoly Ceratec has a lot of it which instantly quiets them down, as well as the factory fill special additive pack is pretty high in both substances - no surprise ticking begins after first oil change).

My car is tuned and driven hard when warmed up, Coyotes love a thicker oil. Currently been using 0W40 Mobil 1 but looking to try some other good 0W/5W40’s to see how UOAs compare.

Let me know any recommendations!
 
VQAndrew said:
Those two additives really quiet down the Gen 3 Ford 5.0 Coyote ticking (and of course that’s what Liquimoly Ceratec has a lot of it which instantly quiets them down, as well as the factory fill special additive pack is pretty high in both substances - no surprise ticking begins after first oil change).

My car is tuned and driven hard when warmed up, Coyotes love a thicker oil. Currently been using 0W40 Mobil 1 but looking to try some other good 0W/5W40’s to see how UOAs compare.

Let me know any recommendations!
Click to expand...
Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 (online)
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 (online, AZ, AAP)
Castrol Edge 0W40 (online)
Quaker State Euro 5W40 (Wal mart)


You have stuff like HPL, Redline, and Amosil that are online-only boutique oils.

Those would be my go-to that are easy to obtain.
 
VQAndrew said:
Those two additives really quiet down the Gen 3 Ford 5.0 Coyote ticking (and of course that’s what Liquimoly Ceratec has a lot of it which instantly quiets them down, as well as the factory fill special additive pack is pretty high in both substances - no surprise ticking begins after first oil change).

My car is tuned and driven hard when warmed up, Coyotes love a thicker oil. Currently been using 0W40 Mobil 1 but looking to try some other good 0W/5W40’s to see how UOAs compare.

Let me know any recommendations!
Click to expand...
You’re already using the king of shelf-stock oils. You’re not going to “gain” anything switching from that to anything else you can grab off a WM shelf.

If you want more moly and boron and a better overall oil, you’re going to have to step up to one of the mail-order companies. @High Performance Lubricants happens to own a 900+ rwhp TT 5.0, maybe you could see what he’d recommend? @Pablo probably can also point you in the right direction if you prefer Amsoil (Dominator series?).

IMO using a fully-formulated oil that meets your needs is always preferable to using an additive. There’s good oils out there that don’t need a mystery mix of third-party stuff in order to be able to protect your engine.
 
Last edited:
I’m interested in 0w40 choices as well. The M1 Euro is well liked by everyone. How about the Ultra Platinum 0w40’s? Are these the same oil in different colored bottles? Pretty cheap too for $7.69 at Napa.
IMG_7008.jpeg
IMG_7007.jpeg
 
Amsoil Sig Series 0W-40 has quite a bit of both; a couple of analysis’ of it are in that section.
 
Cera Tec has high graphite content. The purpose is to bind to the metal and fill in abrasive metal to surface area and they claim 30k per treatment. 15 - 20k is better depending on OCI schedule. This graphite is most of the magic. The ZDDP package is icing on the cake. M1 or PUP are great. Mustang owners rave about the product. I’ve been using it in every motor I own for years now. Noisy valve-train in that motor.

Better to still do 4k OCI vs extra money on boutique oil. You can always do the filter every other. On my twin turbo, this is my schedule using an evacuator at 4k / full OCI at 8k. I’m also WMI / e40 on. Long OCI’s are not smart. Lots of fuel… lol
 
Last edited:
SubieRubyRoo said:
You’re already using the king of shelf-stock oils. You’re not going to “gain” anything switching from that to anything else you can grab off a WM shelf.

If you want more moly and boron and a better overall oil, you’re going to have to step up to one of the mail-order companies. @High Performance Lubricants happens to own a 900+ rwhp TT 5.0, maybe you could see what he’d recommend? @Pablo probably can also point you in the right direction if you prefer Amsoil (Dominator series?).

IMO using a fully-formulated oil that meets your needs is always preferable to using an additive. There’s good oils out there that don’t need a mystery mix of third-party stuff in order to be able to protect your engine.
Click to expand...
^^^ This
 
Shel_B said:
^^^ This
Click to expand...
Cera Tec’s purpose is not to change the properties of the oil. It does give it a ZDDP boost yes but the real purpose is to use the oil as a delivery system for the graphite. Not a traditional oil-additive. Fantastic product, especially for cold start wear protection.
 
Lavrishevo said:
Cera Tec’s purpose is not to change the properties of the oil. It does give it a ZDDP boost yes but the real purpose is to use the oil as a delivery system for the graphite. Not a traditional oil-additive. Fantastic product, especially for cold start wear protection.
Click to expand...
Adding more ZDDP to an oil changes the properties of the oil. Good oils are formulated in very subtle ways, and changing the oil's chemistry can change the oil's ability to perform as intended.

Perhaps this is a poor analogy, but take a glass of milk. Remove an ounce of milk and replace it with chocolate syrup. Maybe the property of the milk itself has not changed, but its flavor, texture, nutritional value, and ability to be used in the same recipes before the addition of the chocolate has been substantially altered.
 
Shel_B said:
Adding more ZDDP to an oil changes the properties of the oil. Good oils are formulated in very subtle ways, and changing the oil's chemistry can change the oil's ability to perform as intended.

Perhaps this is a poor analogy, but take a glass of milk. Remove an ounce of milk and replace it with chocolate syrup. Maybe the property of the milk itself has not changed, but its flavor, texture, nutritional value, and ability to be used in the same recipes before the addition of the chocolate has been substantially altered.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you’re a fan of chocolate milk. I’m telling you, the stuff works. Molly, Zinc, and Boron are not the highest concentration. It’s graphite. It does take upwards of 500 miles realize the full treatment. If you concentrate on the reviews, everyone focuses on quieter engines, less valve noise, improved efficiency, upwards of 2 to 3%.

I challenge you to make a cold start video of your own engine. Easy to do. Pop the hood, record a video concentrating mostly on the first 5 seconds of the startup on your current setup before an oil change. Do the same after using the product on your fresh oil of choice. A camera position closer to the valve-train and where it takes the longest to get oil is ideal. Then make a second video, same condition a few days later or after 50 miles. Hood open , first start of the morning, close to your timing chain and valves. Compare to two.
 
Lavrishevo said:
Sounds like you’re a fan of chocolate milk. I’m telling you, the stuff works. Molly, Zinc, and Boron are not the highest concentration. It’s graphite. It does take upwards of 500 miles realize the full treatment. If you concentrate on the reviews, everyone focuses on quieter engines, less valve noise, improved efficiency, upwards of 2 to 3%.

I challenge you to make a cold start video of your own engine. Easy to do. Pop the hood, record a video concentrating mostly on the first 5 seconds of the startup on your current setup before an oil change. Do the same after using the product on your fresh oil of choice. A camera position closer to the valve-train and where it takes the longest to get oil is ideal. Then make a second video, same condition a few days later or after 50 miles. Hood open , first start of the morning, close to your timing chain and valves. Compare to two.
Click to expand...
Can you show us just a single manufacturer that adds graphite to an engine oil? No. We’ve already covered this ad nauseam; if you want to add CeraTec to your sump that’s fine, it’s your money to burn.

But no one, not even LiquiMoly, uses the components in CeraTec in a fully-formulated oil nor is there any objective testing that shows a benefit over available oils when added to a sump. However, there is plenty of evidence (certifications & approvals) to show that the available oils meet some of the strictest performance standards (Porsche & MB) without any of this hocus pocus.

As a matter of fact, there’s a REALLY good chance that additives like this will actually make a previously passing oil fail the performance tests after adding it, since the additives most certainly do change the operational qualities of an oil.

At least @TiGeo admits he uses it more out of habit and for fun, along with his engine flushes. No concrete evidence of improvements, but he’s also not peddling it as a panacea to everyone. He also uses oils that don’t need anything mysterious to be a top-shelf performer.
 
Lavrishevo said:
Sounds like you’re a fan of chocolate milk. I’m telling you, the stuff works. Molly, Zinc, and Boron are not the highest concentration. It’s graphite. It does take upwards of 500 miles realize the full treatment. If you concentrate on the reviews, everyone focuses on quieter engines, less valve noise, improved efficiency, upwards of 2 to 3%.

I challenge you to make a cold start video of your own engine. Easy to do. Pop the hood, record a video concentrating mostly on the first 5 seconds of the startup on your current setup before an oil change. Do the same after using the product on your fresh oil of choice. A camera position closer to the valve-train and where it takes the longest to get oil is ideal. Then make a second video, same condition a few days later or after 50 miles. Hood open , first start of the morning, close to your timing chain and valves. Compare to two.
Click to expand...
Graphite? That was tried once before.
Perhaps this is a somewhat hyperbolic reply to your challenge, but in any case, I'd not put any addtives in the quality, fully formulated oil that I use. Others do, and often swear by their results. So, if it makes you happy and you believe it's doing some good to/for your engine, then be happy and continue on your chosen path.

1695134084245.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: hrv
Lavrishevo said:
Cera Tec has high graphite content. The purpose is to bind to the metal and fill in abrasive metal to surface area and they claim 30k per treatment. 15 - 20k is better depending on OCI schedule. This graphite is most of the magic. The ZDDP package is icing on the cake. M1 or PUP are great. Mustang owners rave about the product. I’ve been using it in every motor I own for years now. Noisy valve-train in that motor.

Better to still do 4k OCI vs extra money on boutique oil. You can always do the filter every other. On my twin turbo, this is my schedule using an evacuator at 4k / full OCI at 8k. I’m also WMI / e40 on. Long OCI’s are not smart. Lots of fuel… lol
Click to expand...
Cera Tec has no graphite, that is silly. You're on here endlessly hawking stuff and you don't even know what it is.

Just clueless.
 
Last edited:
Shel_B said:
Graphite? That was tried once before.
Perhaps this is a somewhat hyperbolic reply to your challenge, but in any case, I'd not put any addtives in the quality, fully formulated oil that I use. Others do, and often swear by their results. So, if it makes you happy and you believe it's doing some good to/for your engine, then be happy and continue on your chosen path.

View attachment 179379
Click to expand...
There's no graphite in Cera Tec. The poster has no idea what he's talking about, and is only half understanding the various blurbs he reads on the Internet about the product.

Reminds me of the MotorKote guy that used to post here.
 
Lavrishevo said:
Sounds like you’re a fan of chocolate milk. I’m telling you, the stuff works. Molly, Zinc, and Boron are not the highest concentration. It’s graphite. It does take upwards of 500 miles realize the full treatment. If you concentrate on the reviews, everyone focuses on quieter engines, less valve noise, improved efficiency, upwards of 2 to 3%.

I challenge you to make a cold start video of your own engine. Easy to do. Pop the hood, record a video concentrating mostly on the first 5 seconds of the startup on your current setup before an oil change. Do the same after using the product on your fresh oil of choice. A camera position closer to the valve-train and where it takes the longest to get oil is ideal. Then make a second video, same condition a few days later or after 50 miles. Hood open , first start of the morning, close to your timing chain and valves. Compare to two.
Click to expand...
Glad you like it, but…and this is important…

There is no graphite in it.

None.

If you’re going to convince us to try it, it sure would help if you understood what you are promoting.

You can’t even spell Moly (short for Molybdenum, not the female name, Molly).

So, I challenge YOU to go back to LiquiMoly and figure out what they actually put in the product.

Maybe start here: https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/us/cera-tec-p000017.html#20002
 
Ceratech is hexagonal boron nitride "white graphite" which is also referred to as "ceramic" hence the name Ceratec. You'll see a spike in Mo and B in your UOA when you use it. It's both a solid and chemical friction modifier both which are known to reduce friction...of course by how much (argument argument drama drama memes and locked post/ban hammer) we don't know. It's supposed to be good for 30K miles but the solid portion will come out when you change the oil. I've used it many times in several of my VWs. Here is a TUV test of this product for certification of sale in Europe (how I understand it) showing reduction in friction...need to translate it. Many reposrts of this quieting engines down (maybe the solid acts as a sound damper?) and even a few reports of solids like this settling out in the oil pan after long periods of not operating.

www.speediagnostix.com

Liqui Moly — SPEEDiagnostix

This week we are looking at a wear protection product.
www.speediagnostix.com www.speediagnostix.com


Edit. In before hrv laugh reacts....too late!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

V
M1 FS 0W40 vs. Castrol Edge 0W40
3 4 5
Replies
83
Views
20K
BMWTurboDzl
V
2022 Mustang GT 5.0L Coyote, Mobil1 FS 0W40, 5500 miles on car, 2300 miles on oil, has infamous tick
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
kschachn
R
  • Locked
2009 Lexus RX 350 3.5L 2GR FE piston slap/VVTI ticking
2 3 4
Replies
70
Views
26K
Astro14
Torrid
  • Locked
High moly full syn 5w30?
2
Replies
27
Views
12K
Gabe
C
  • Locked
Better Hydrodynamics with Thicker Oil? (Long)
2
Replies
33
Views
17K
moribundman
Back
Top