Rattle on startup

[Propflux01]

I'm not familiar with your consumer protection laws... so that part is up to you... in the USA just about anything purchased used if it is more than a couple years old doesn't have anything in the way of a warranty, essentially buyer beware.. anyway you look at it all the repair people can do for a rod knock assuming it is one would be at minimum replace the offending connecting rod bearing or at maximum replace the crankshaft and all the bearings.. wouldn't necessarily mean a full rebuild... it is worth saying rod knocks don't usually occur at low engine speed or go away after engine startup and can be induced by rapidly revving the engine and letting off the gas pedal... rod knocks tend to occur at higher engine speeds because there is enough play in the offending device to not be able to keep up with the changes in direction of the reciprocating assembly whereas if its just a rattling on startup that goes away after the engine warms up it is almost certainly something to do with either hydraulic lash adjusters or valve lifters ( assuming it has them) or some sort of slop in a hydraulically tensioned timing chain setup.

I would have to disagree with this in part. Once oil pressures becomes sufficient, the loose clearances that were enough to make the rods knock for a second or two after, and not come back, are filled with oil, and the barrier prevent further noise. I would hear this same noise in older V8's that had nothing but a standard nylon coated timing chain. ITs not that the engine is ready to grenade, its jus the clearances are wide enough to take the initial cold start oil a second to fill the gap, so to speak. I had a VW Beetle that did the same thing, and it had a crank/cam gear drive. Most of the time when its a timing chain, it (to me) sounds more like a slosh-type or scraping type of noise until the chain gets tight and lubed. YMMV, of course.

 

[GMBoy]

Well they just called me back to claim all responsbility, what you think a dealer should be responsible for is different from what a dealer actually is responsible fot, you can't tell me you wouldn't take the opputunity to get it repaired for free if you could.

Glad it worked out for you....wouldn't go your way in the USA. Here it's a used car and purchased AS IS - unless they provide a written warranty.

 

[Oliveoil2]

I’d like to know what caused the startup rattle. My moneys in the timing chain/components.

 

[Zdos123]

I’d like to know what caused the startup rattle. My moneys in the timing chain/components.

I'll keep you all updated when i find out.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Glad it worked out for you....wouldn't go your way in the USA. Here it's a used car and purchased AS IS - unless they provide a written warranty.

Depends on the State you live in. Massachusetts ( a commonwealth) requires used cars sold (by a dealer) to have a warranty if the mileage is under 125K. Next, a Private Seller must disclose any known defects. If found defective - and it can be proven the seller knew of the defect(s) - the car can be returned, and the private seller must reimburse the buyer the selling price- minus a 15¢ per mile usage.

 

[Zdos123]

I’d like to know what caused the startup rattle. My moneys in the timing chain/components.

Just replaced the timing chain system and the rattle persists, still trying to diagnose the issue with the dealer, sounds slightly different than before

 

[facility1]

had a old toyota celica ( 1988 or so),,,changed oil,then put in gunk (qt) when cold ran 5 min drained,installed fresh oil again,i think mystik 10w-30 ran about thousand miles ,drained and did the flush again, fresh filter both times (fram),noise went away after that .

 

[Zdos123]

Update 2 : Just checked the box that they gave to me full of the old timing chain parts and found something interesting, the "old" parts are brand new and Febi not Mazda OEM so it turns out they didn't even change the tensioner or guides and charged me for the priveledge, i'm booking it in with a trusted garage to get a new timing system and i'm going to claim it back via small claims court (as advised by a lawyer), i will update this thread again when the car gets it's new parts.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Wife's Kia developed a low, cold startup rattle. Turned out the 2.0 MPI four cylinder does not like Champ's STP XL oil filters

 

[ZeeOSix]

Chain driven cams can be sensitive to oil grade and more importantly filters. I would try a different brand of filter, one that does NOT advertise high efficiency. Since many filter are NOT assembled in country of origin of the marque, they are all suspect. Especially Thailand and China and Mexico.

If it's the oil filter, it's from the ADBV leaking and some oil galleries leaking out which gives a slight "dry start" condition. Could be that causes the chain tensioner to take a couple seconds to get oil pressure and control the timing chain.

It's not from a "restrictive" oil filter due to efficiency. Positive displacement oil pumps are not effected by the oil filter unless it's totally clogged and puts the oil pump in pressure relief. Thats actually pretty hard to do.