Rattle on startup

[Zdos123]

Hello,
I have a 2009 Mazda MX5 1.8l, since about february it's rattled on certain cold startups and very momentarily it's started rattling on hot starts. I thought it could possibly be rod bearings, but i've driven about 4000 miles on it and whilst it's got worse it's not got considerably worse, this is being driven like an mx5 owned by someone under 25, to the redline pretty much once every drive (after warmed up), i tried to go back to the garage i bought it from under the consumer rights act but they are ignoring me now and i'm going to have to take legal action if i want anything from them, i'm not sure whether or not to be concerned, this is my only car and i can't afford to replace it which would **** my university studies over and my job.


Thanks,
Zdos123

 

[Danno]

VVT system needs repair.

 

[Zdos123]

VVT system needs repair.

it's the 1.8l, these don't have vvt

 

[billt460]

What's the total mileage on it? And whatever it is, I would most definitely stop "redlining it" until the problem was diagnosed and repaired. Or its liable to get real expensive, real fast.

 

[Zdos123]

What's the total mileage on it? And whatever it is, I would most definitely stop "redlining it" until the problem was diagnosed and repaired. Or its liable to get real expensive, real fast.

90,000 miles just yesterday, doesn't burn any oil, the thing about it that's weird is that it is completly non apparent in regular driving, and it seems entirely random as to when it does it, the only garage i've recreated it too, said it could be a bad timing chain tensioner but that was the garage who is now ignoring me and i said to them first it could be a bad timing chain tensioner. I'm trying to get the opinion of a local garage but i'm struggling to get it to happen for them.

 

[billt460]

Have you changed the oil? Or does it have the same oil in it when you bought it? If you don't know what's in it, I would change both the oil and the filter, and go with a 0W-40, (Mobil 1 is good), and see if that helps.

I don't know your climate, but 0W-40 should be suitable most anywhere this time of year.

 

[Zdos123]

Have you changed the oil? Or does it have the same oil in it when you bought it? If you don't know what's in it, I would change both the oil and the filter, and go with a 0W-40, (Mobil 1 is good), and see if that helps.

I don't know your climate, but 0W-40 should be suitable most anywhere this time of year.

I changed the oil and that's when the rattle started, changed it to 5w-30 (as specified in the manual) and a mazda oem filter, so i could try changing to 0W-40

 

[billt460]

Going to a higher viscosity would be the easiest place to start. If that doesn't quiet things down, then start looking elsewhere. You might even try 10W-40.

 

[Danno]

Definitely something to do with timing chain system. May even try 15W-40 HDEO, but that is only delaying the inevitable need for repair.

 

[Kira]

For diagnosis, try the "Clear Flooded Engine" approach.
1) Turn key to ON -the dashboard lights up
2) Floor the accelerator pedal -this shuts off fuel and spark
3) Crank the engine for 5 seconds without starting it (obviously)
4) Release the gas pedal
5) Start the engine and see if pumping up the oil shortened the rattle time

As billt460 said, another oil can help.
I had the same wee rattle upon start-up and a different 5W-30 helped.
Also, the Bosch filter ADBV holds better overnight.

 

[panthermike]

Trying a thicker oil isn't a bad idea, easy to do.

My Crown Victoria started making a tensioner noise at startup around 164k miles. I decided what the heck and added an oil additive last year called "Bestline". I was a little skeptical as they have buzz words in their marketing that are a little much. However, that was 14 months ago and the noise is gone!

I'm not a huge fan of using additives for things but worked for me. Of course there's no guarantees but I didn't want to spend 1,000 to open it up. Good luck to you!

 

[Zdos123]

For diagnosis, try the "Clear Flooded Engine" approach.
1) Turn key to ON -the dashboard lights up
2) Floor the accelerator pedal -this shuts off fuel and spark
3) Crank the engine for 5 seconds without starting it (obviously)
4) Release the gas pedal
5) Start the engine and see if pumping up the oil shortened the rattle time

As billt460 said, another oil can help.
I had the same wee rattle upon start-up and a different 5W-30 helped.
Also, the Bosch filter ADBV holds better overnight.

It complety dissapears, i've done this before.

 

[Zdos123]

Definitely something to do with timing chain system. May even try 15W-40 HDEO, but that is only delaying the inevitable need for repair.

That would be nice as i can just about afford that then i can claim it back from the garage i bought it from in small claims court, it does however sound a lot more insidious inside the cabin.

 

[Zdos123]

For diagnosis, try the "Clear Flooded Engine" approach.
1) Turn key to ON -the dashboard lights up
2) Floor the accelerator pedal -this shuts off fuel and spark
3) Crank the engine for 5 seconds without starting it (obviously)
4) Release the gas pedal
5) Start the engine and see if pumping up the oil shortened the rattle time

As billt460 said, another oil can help.
I had the same wee rattle upon start-up and a different 5W-30 helped.
Also, the Bosch filter ADBV holds better overnight.

If the noise completly dissapears is it indicitive of timing chain tensioner issues, because i showed that clip inside the car to my mecahnic and he said it didn't sound like timing but main bearings or rod bearings.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Weird rattle until oil pressure builds?

I have a 2009 Mazda MX5 1.8L which after changing the oil recently started to rattle for 1-2 seconds on certain cold starts, seemingly relating to angle and duration length but also sometimes when I've only had turned off for 2-3 minutes after driving hard it'll rattle slightly. If I crank the...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Zdos123]

Weird rattle until oil pressure builds?

I have a 2009 Mazda MX5 1.8L which after changing the oil recently started to rattle for 1-2 seconds on certain cold starts, seemingly relating to angle and duration length but also sometimes when I've only had turned off for 2-3 minutes after driving hard it'll rattle slightly. If I crank the...

bobistheoilguy.com

I tried again using a different video and the response was overwhelmingly different, as you can see

 

[atikovi]

That would be nice as i can just about afford that then i can claim it back from the garage i bought it from in small claims court, it does however sound a lot more insidious inside the cabin.

What kind of warranty is there on a 14 year old car you've driven 4,000 miles, especially if it runs and drives fine, save for one second of noise on startup?

 

[Greasymechtech]

Response is irrelevant is you to respond to recommendations. Repeating the same thread a million times is a too common and foolish.

So, now you change the oil and filter, use the 0w40 or 5w40 recommend in your 1st thread. And, since some filters drain back faster than others, don't use the same filter. I am not sure of the brands available in your local stores but my recommendation is to use one with a 'silicone' ADBV, and preferably a blended or full synthetic media.

Without knowing the maintenance history of the vehicle, everything posted is a guess. You didn't provide the known history of maintenance. "Oil changes specified by Mazda" means NOTHING to anyone not in your local area with your local owners manual. My maintenance isn't specified by ANYONE. For example, on my vehicle, my maintenance is every 3750 miles for the oil/filter change since new.

Pull the valve/cam/rocker cover off for an inspection. If it is sludged up, you have your answer. If it is spotless, then go thicker with the oil and use a different filter.

If you don't have the funds to pull the valve cover off for inspection, find someone with a bore scope camera and take a look if possible.... also can look at the insides of the oil pan from the drain plug too. And, if that is not possible, give the engine a 5-15 minute typical solvent type cold engine 'flush' and see what comes out.

You'll live with the noise. It is common with some engines and common with negligence or abuse. So, drive it like a little ol' lady going to church on Sunday and wear ear plugs for each time you start it.

And, the interval, 'specified by Mazda', should be adjusted for your current situation. My situation, not wanting to buy a new engine or replacement parts, cuts the 7500 'specified' interval to '3750' miles. And, my engine is varnish/sludge and rattle free on startups.

Your engine is already worn out. So, you use viscosity to mask the noise, and a quality filter to avoid drain back.

In the USA, the Miata had the 2.0 engine a few years earlier than yours. And, the best way to record sound from an engine is to pop the hood, and have someone hold the microphone close to the engine when you start it.

 

[Zdos123]

What kind of warranty is there on a 14 year old car you've driven 4,000 miles, especially if it runs and drives fine, save for one second of noise on startup?

In the UK under the consumer rights act of 2015 a car must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality, i would not have bought the car if i had realised it needed a costly timing job or worse yet new bearings on the engine, british consumer law is incredibly consumer biased, for the first 6 months any faults which develop are the dealers responsibility and after that up to 6 years if you can prove it was there when you bought the car (bodged body repairs, etc).

 

[Zdos123]

Response is irrelevant is you to respond to recommendations. Repeating the same thread a million times is a too common and foolish.

So, now you change the oil and filter, use the 0w40 or 5w40 recommend in your 1st thread. And, since some filters drain back faster than others, don't use the same filter. I am not sure of the brands available in your local stores but my recommendation is to use one with a 'silicone' ADBV, and preferably a blended or full synthetic media.

Without knowing the maintenance history of the vehicle, everything posted is a guess. You didn't provide the known history of maintenance. "Oil changes specified by Mazda" means NOTHING to anyone not in your local area with your local owners manual. My maintenance isn't specified by ANYONE. For example, on my vehicle, my maintenance is every 3750 miles for the oil/filter change since new.

Pull the valve/cam/rocker cover off for an inspection. If it is sludged up, you have your answer. If it is spotless, then go thicker with the oil and use a different filter.

If you don't have the funds to pull the valve cover off for inspection, find someone with a bore scope camera and take a look if possible.... also can look at the insides of the oil pan from the drain plug too. And, if that is not possible, give the engine a 5-15 minute typical solvent type cold engine 'flush' and see what comes out.

You'll live with the noise. It is common with some engines and common with negligence or abuse. So, drive it like a little ol' lady going to church on Sunday and wear ear plugs for each time you start it.

And, the interval, 'specified by Mazda', should be adjusted for your current situation. My situation, not wanting to buy a new engine or replacement parts, cuts the 7500 'specified' interval to '3750' miles. And, my engine is varnish/sludge and rattle free on startups.

Your engine is already worn out. So, you use viscosity to mask the noise, and a quality filter to avoid drain back.

In the USA, the Miata had the 2.0 engine a few years earlier than yours. And, the best way to record sound from an engine is to pop the hood, and have someone hold the microphone close to the engine when you start it.

I guess the entire reason why i bought an MX5 is to have fun with it, if it's not going to blow up for the next 3 years or so i'm fine, what i'm not fine with is spending £4500 (about £750 more than market value for one of these cars) for a car which i can't drive enthuiasitcally because the engine is worn as **** and might randomly blow up.