Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related?

Messages
1,105
Location
PEARL River la
The main thing I have seen on Hemi is the ones who use conventional oil and do regular oil changes according to severe duty don't have problems. The main culprit seems to be Synthetic oil changes according to OLM. Can't say it's the oil or extended oil changes but if anything like the Chevy small block from the ninety's the spring pressure was to low and allowed the roller to slide instead of roll causing cam damage and bearings in lifters to fail. Just an opinion
 
Messages
2,678
Location
Chicagoland
Originally Posted by tiger862
The main thing I have seen on Hemi is the ones who use conventional oil and do regular oil changes according to severe duty don't have problems. The main culprit seems to be Synthetic oil changes according to OLM. Can't say it's the oil or extended oil changes but if anything like the Chevy small block from the ninety's the spring pressure was to low and allowed the roller to slide instead of roll causing cam damage and bearings in lifters to fail. Just an opinion
I've seen plenty eat a lifter running conventional with 4,000-5,000 mile OCI's done at the dealership.
 
Messages
2,576
Location
CenTX
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
I've never had that issue except once. I was parked at a slope where the passenger side was higher than the drivers side.
Interesting observation. Like I said I've heard quite a few newer vehicles that make that same noise. I'll hear it not quite as pronounced in my 3.6L Pentastar, but it would have to be sitting a few weeks w/o being driven in order to make that noise. Then the noise will last 1-2 seconds at most. The lifters do leak down, which they claim causes the noise and it is supposed to be "normal." I guess "normal" can mean a lot of things.
Yup, parked at the streetside of my work, which is at an incline. 13 hours parked, cold start, about 6-8 seconds of rattle then back to normal. This was while running Conventional Formula Shell 5w20 and a CQ Red. I havent had that issue since, but I no longer park there anymore, maybe I will and see if it's still an issue with the current fill, or whatnot. shrug
 
Last edited:
Messages
34,424
Location
NY
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
I've never had that issue except once. I was parked at a slope where the passenger side was higher than the drivers side.
Interesting observation. Like I said I've heard quite a few newer vehicles that make that same noise. I'll hear it not quite as pronounced in my 3.6L Pentastar, but it would have to be sitting a few weeks w/o being driven in order to make that noise. Then the noise will last 1-2 seconds at most. The lifters do leak down, which they claim causes the noise and it is supposed to be "normal." I guess "normal" can mean a lot of things.
Yup, parked at the streetside of my work, which is at an incline. 13 hours parked, cold start, about 6-8 seconds of rattle then back to normal. This was while running Conventional Formula Shell 5w20 and a CQ Red. I havent had that issue since, but I no longer park there anymore, maybe I will and see if it's still an issue with the current fill, or whatnot. shrug
I've mentioned this a few times here. I have a friend who is an A-tech at a Jeep dealership. He is an excellent tech. He has handled the cam lifter failures and has worked with Sr. techs Chrysler sends out to the dealerships to troubleshoot issues. Long story short these cam lifter problems are not unique to Chrysler products, and contrary to what many on Bitog believe they feel higher ZDDP oils or tweaking the oil with ZDDP can help, yes even in engines like yours and the 3.6. They also feel moving up a grade to a 5W30 is a good idea too. The problem is they can't openly suggest using a ZDDP additive, or going against the owner's manual. I have discussed this on numerous occasions with a few highly respected members here, they agree. Having said that if a person has defective parts, nothing is going to help. Good luck!!
 
Messages
1,163
Location
sonoma
Ram Forum has one, it's been so long I forgot the wear numbers values, just that some of the numbers were like 10 times normal hemi wear, which is already a high wear engine. Somewhere in the 400-600ppm range, don't remember which metals. The engine was also ticking. He did 3 uoa's and then it failed. When the forum changed, it is hard to find old posts like that.
 
Messages
2,619
Location
High Tax Illinois
Originally Posted by AbbeyRoad
"Uncle Tony's Garage" has explained the reason for the Hemi lifter failures in this video: "Hemi Camshaft Failure Mystery Explained!" https://youtu.be/dI93-Zdx_nY
Uncle Tony makes complete sense. Nobody has ever come up with this theory before. The oil tube cast into the block is partly blocking oil splash from the crank/rods. The oil drains down into the engine "away" from the camshaft lobes/lifters. No other engine I've ever seen has these oil blocking problems. Makes sense to me.
 
Messages
90
Location
ct
So has this been rectified? I was seriously contemplating trading my JGC in for a ‘17-18 Laramie Longhorn but I can't seem to find what exactly years were effected and what year it was fixed?
 
Messages
2,619
Location
High Tax Illinois
I don't know about the oiling problem being brought up, but supposedly better quality control on the roller lifters. Hopefully the lifters get enough oil from the oil galleys. Hit and miss, some HEMI's go 150K no problem, some have gone out under 30K or worse. Mopar should look into getting more oil on the camshaft lobes and rollers.
 
Messages
42,594
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by oldhp
Originally Posted by AbbeyRoad
"Uncle Tony's Garage" has explained the reason for the Hemi lifter failures in this video: "Hemi Camshaft Failure Mystery Explained!" https://youtu.be/dI93-Zdx_nY
Uncle Tony makes complete sense. Nobody has ever come up with this theory before. The oil tube cast into the block is partly blocking oil splash from the crank/rods. The oil drains down into the engine "away" from the camshaft lobes/lifters. No other engine I've ever seen has these oil blocking problems. Makes sense to me.
The GM AFM engines suffer from the same failure, and earlier on in this thread Shannow did touch on the topic of lobe splash lube. The lifter bodies are all pressure lubricated, not splash, which is how the oil gets into the lifters and up the pushrods into the heads, the MDS lifters are lubricated "backwards" with no oil hole in the body, as the oil comes down through the pushrod from the adjacent regular flow path lifter. I believe the expectation is that there will be enough side leakage in the lifter bores that it will sufficiently lubricate the rollers and lobes, which, in a roller application, aren't overly demanding.
 
Messages
42,594
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by will1780
So has this been rectified? I was seriously contemplating trading my JGC in for a ‘17-18 Laramie Longhorn but I can't seem to find what exactly years were effected and what year it was fixed?
Apparently around 2015. The lifters have been revised several times, which have been believed to be the root of the problem.
 
Messages
15
Location
oh
Originally Posted by JosephA
[ Okay on the plastic keepers on top of the lifters. I noted that too when I removed my lifters, and I was stunned after seeing plastic keepers holding the lifters in place. Chrysler made a huge mistake with that.
rofl well they seem to maybe fail with higher mileage... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPfI3cTBsx0 better replace them if you have a chance. BTW Uncle Tony is 100% wrong... Ill do a video, he missed a vital point on his lookup....
 
Messages
293
Location
MN
Yeah, I know they tried new lifters. I have a 2017, supposedly has new lifters, but don't know if they solved the lack of lube issue. Lots of discussion on RamForumz about it. No one seems to know.
 

JKW

Messages
2
Location
Alberta, Canada
There's a You Tube piece on this problem. He thinks he has found the answer. It is bad design. The camshaft was put much higher in the block causing the lifters to be at a closer to flat angle. There is a main oil gallery above the camshaft that blocks drip oil at low engine speeds. There is no oiling from the lifters, oiling depends on splash from the crankshaft, so if you keep your revs over 2500 the engine will live longer. see it here, best explanation I've seen so far.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9SzQNYLqsPQGY_nbHogDDw
 
Messages
1,695
Location
Indiana
Originally Posted by JKW
There's a You Tube piece on this problem. He thinks he has found the answer. It is bad design. The camshaft was put much higher in the block causing the lifters to be at a closer to flat angle. There is a main oil gallery above the camshaft that blocks drip oil at low engine speeds. There is no oiling from the lifters, oiling depends on splash from the crankshaft, so if you keep your revs over 2500 the engine will live longer. see it here, best explanation I've seen so far.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9SzQNYLqsPQGY_nbHogDDw
That video has already been posted in this thread. Mikes2nd posted a video two posts above yours refuting the Uncle Tony video.
 
Messages
293
Location
MN
Well! A pressurized oil gallery right to the lifter bore! One of the video commenters states he was in Chrysler Engineering and claims the problem is sticky valves due to valve seats being too tight, seizing on warmup (view comments on link above). Seems like nobody really knows. Which is why we're concerned, of course. Others claim HEMI rate of failures isn't much different than other V8 engines. I wouldn't know - where is the data? Of course the car companies aren't going to tell us. It's all speculation based on only a couple of data points. All I know is for all the V8's I've owned, I've never heard of this. Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler.
 
Top