Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related?

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495
Location
TX & ON
I like his posts. He generally makes sense, even if his posts are a bit long winded.
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
You read none of the posts in this thread duh
You're right; I didn't read any of the posts and only read half of the opening post. All I needed to read was "MDS" and off to Google Images I went. Are you kidding man? It would take me 5 years just to read your posts in this thread. grin2
 
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1,196
Location
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted by ofelas
I like his posts. He generally makes sense, even if his posts are a bit long winded.
Long winded? He's got enough wind to blow a sail boat around the Earth 4 or 5 times. grin2
 
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21
Location
North east
I work at a Harley dealership and we also see lifters fail, most often it's the needles. HD changed vendors a few years back and it corresponds with the failures. I might add it occurs more in engines equipped with SE valve springs. Harley has come out with their SE line of lifters with larger diameter rollers and seem to be working well. FWIW
 
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34,405
Location
NY
Originally Posted by burla
Thanks Joe for showing us the bad news. When you are in the fold of the hemi circus, you realize how prevelant this is, I can't even tell you how many hemi cam lobs I have seen like this. You talk to a bunch of randon hemi owners for a period of 5 years, and it just so happens that 10% of them end up this way? You watch the online mechanics like Motor City Mechanic and many others that see Rams and you see how they talk about the hemi cam issues. It is a very prevelant issue in the hemi world, more common then anyone knows. I was watching this one when they brought a ram in for this issue but the guy had all 3 of his bays full of 3 trucks with the same issue. Sometimes they can't get the cam out = total loss. Do you have any idea how many times I have heard cams or lifters on backorder? Why do you suppose that is? I think if every guy that had this happen put the work you put in, we would have a better handle of this thing. Thanks again, I have some guys reading this thread to see if they have anything to add that may be helpful. In the end you and OK likely helped them understand about the issue more then they have to contribute back.
I had this discussion with the A tech that did my airbag recall last week. He had a hemi on the floor with a blown engine, out of a GC. He says there are a lot of cam failures in a lot of different vehicles which includes Chrysler's hemi. Chrysler doesn't make the cam they are outsourced which is why the problem includes other car makers as well. He and a few other techs including people higher up on the food chain believe it might be caused by the ZDDP reduction in oil formulations. He feels a ZDDP add might help, but the CC might not bode well. I found it interesting, listened and didn't comment one way or the other. I'm sure flames are coming. I did ask about the 3.6L, he did say he sees cam failures in the 3.6L as well but not as many as the hemi.
 
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7
Location
Michigan
I have enjoyed reading this post and this is, by far, the most interesting one I have found pertaining to root cause. It seems the one weak link that has not been addressed by Johnson, FCA, or anyone, may be the plastic retainers. Is there, or will there be a solution? The fact that Johnson has had a 0 failure rate might not exonerate the retainer, as it does not represent a big enough sample size. Separately, FCA seems to have "fixed" the problem on 2016 and up - how? I have read only that they are new part number lifters, so this seems to point to the lifters themselves, and not the plastic retainers. Thoughts?
 
Messages
1,163
Location
sonoma
Not fixed hemi tick 16 and above, a friend who I talk with everyday can testify with a 16 3500 non mds engine at that. Still every week we have new mebers with 17's and 18's with ticking hemi's as well. Spend a month at ram forum, you will have a new appreciation for the issue. Funny how so many members in one spot just happen to develop hemi tick. FCA can't address this with lubrication like it has with other issues like eco deisel and bearings because of CAFE and the lie that mds requires 20 weight oil. So if you have hemi tick or are concerned about the number of cams being wiped out, all you can do is do some research and develop a strategy or sell the thing. Selling it is the only guaruntee.
 
Messages
757
Location
N. Calif - State of Jefferson
Thanks for posting. No issues yet with my 2011 MDS 5.7 Hemi. No ticking that I can hear, even on a cold start up. 159k miles. Still makes me nervous. Took the readers post above with a grain of salt & added about 7 oz of ZDDP additive, at the risk of fouling the catalytic and 02 sensors.
 
Messages
46
Location
Sumter, SC
Originally Posted by burla
Thanks Joe for showing us the bad news. When you are in the fold of the hemi circus, you realize how prevelant this is, I can't even tell you how many hemi cam lobs I have seen like this. You talk to a bunch of randon hemi owners for a period of 5 years, and it just so happens that 10% of them end up this way? You watch the online mechanics like Motor City Mechanic and many others that see Rams and you see how they talk about the hemi cam issues. It is a very prevelant issue in the hemi world, more common then anyone knows. I was watching this one when they brought a ram in for this issue but the guy had all 3 of his bays full of 3 trucks with the same issue. Sometimes they can't get the cam out = total loss. Do you have any idea how many times I have heard cams or lifters on backorder? Why do you suppose that is? I think if every guy that had this happen put the work you put in, we would have a better handle of this thing. Thanks again, I have some guys reading this thread to see if they have anything to add that may be helpful. In the end you and OK likely helped them understand about the issue more then they have to contribute back.
Thanks for the complement. And I do hope that someone that you might know with extensive experience in repairing the Hemi can offer some solutions. My wife is getting ticked off at me because I have not yet begun to fix her truck; it's tore down but not yet repaired. She doesn't understand the complexities involved. Sure I could buy stock parts (assuming I could even acquire them in sufficient time) and get the darn thing running again. But all it will do is happen again. Heck my son debated with me on this and asked, "Why not just go to a junk yard and pull parts from another Hemi"? LOL I explained to him that: 1. Junk yards will not usually sell you engine parts (internal that is); they prefer to sell the entire engine 2. Installing a similar MDS style engine would only lead to the same problem It's my strongest opinion that the primary reason why the exact cause cannot be found on the web is because of the large amount of censorship, misinformation, and disinformation flooding the web by pro-Hemi folks who are either working as Chrysler trolls, or just trolls in general, flooding the net with false failure rates (claiming the number of failures is low based on the total number of produced Hemi's), pointing the finger at lifters, and my favorite one is blaming the driver for long idle times or inadequate oil changes. These excuses to cast blame away from Chrysler engineers is laughable to say the least. Claiming low failure rate compared to a huge back log of stock lifters is contradictory, to say the least. LOL I've examined this engine inside and out, not that I'm perfect, but I consider myself to be a very good mechanic. I work on all kinds of different machines and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on here. So here is my belief on the cause of the problem. I believe the primary problem is insufficient oil volume due to the EPA's CAFE standards on fuel efficiency which forced automotive engineers to find every way possible to safe a few micro-gallons of fuel per 10 feet of driving. LOL I'm exaggerating of course. Some claim that the problem happens on non-MDS vehicles, and siting that the reason for lower failures with non-MDS systems has to do with lower ownership of non MDS systems. This to me, while difficult to prove, is untrue. I see more Challengers and Chargers on the road than I do RAM's. Yet most of the vehicles I see at the local dealership having engine lifter/camshaft repairs being done to them are RAMS. The few non-MDS Hemi's that are failing are likely due to stress from owners of these fast machines have a difficult time keeping their food off the gas pedal. I don't know how many Charger owners I see romping their pedals and spinning tires. And logically, anytime you build a high performance engine using low performance parts, you're going to see these kinds of failures. Thus, it is my personal opinion that the low lifter failure rates of the non-MDS Hemi's are from abuse. But for the RAMS, I firmly believe it is directly tied to insufficient lubrication. And the oil starvation is exacerbated by the MDS itself. Oil pressure is required during the entire time the MDS is on operation to keep the MDS lifters from locking. Even though MDS only does this during cruising speeds and at higher RPM's, the current chain-driven oil pumps, in my opinion, are not putting out enough pressure. The primary culprit with regards to oil starvation is the use of non-weighted engine oil. During hot days and long idle times, coupled with a very weak oil pump, insufficient oil volume exists, thereby leading to over heated needle bearings in what might also be poorly designed lifters. Another factor to consider are the lifters (more specifically MDS lifters) getting stuck and not allowing the push rods to sink into the lifter as they are supposed to. This might be evidenced by the heavy damage seen atop of the valve spring caps denoting heavy wear from the extra forces being applied. From my engine, the only side that suffered both cam and lifter failure is Bank 2 (passenger side). The drive side denote zero indications of abnormal wear. The differences between Bank 1 and Bank 2 after careful examination were this: 1. All of the lifters appeared to be well lubricated on Bank 1 (driver side). 2. Most lifters on Bank 2 showed abnormal wear patters, i.e. severely worn rollers, rollers worn at a taper pattern, cam lobes being ground down, and one lifter completely destroyed #8). 3. 2 of the MDS and 1 non-MDS lifter were completely frozen, and did not allow the push rods to spring/pump atop of the lifter as they are designed to do. This did not happen on Bank 1. So based on my findings, to me the problem was caused by lack of lubrication on Bank 2, likely caused by the locked/failed lifters which led to too much oil for the MDS lifters, and not enough oil for the non-MDS lifters. There will be those who do not agree, and that is okay. Whether or not their motives for objection are genuinely true, or simply misguided. But this one fact remains. Chrysler has had several decades of producing horrible unreliable vehicles even as far back as the 1980's. This is why many of us with lesser incomes might be inclined to buy a Dodge vehicle; especially poverty stricken people with poor credit. So there really is no incentive for Chrysler to build a high quality vehicle. And as I've stated before, I've owned a total of 4 Dodge vehicles, and 3 of the 4 all crapped out below or slightly above 100K miles, despite religious upkeep and routine maintenance. It's gotten to the point now that no matter how much you baby your Dodge, the [censored] thing is going to break on you, whether you like it or not. Some do last longer than 300K; I've seen it. But most do not seem to make it. Stratus sucks, Neon's were horrible, Intrepids catching fire, Durango's killing occupants from failed ball joints while traveling at highway speeds, 2.7 liter pump failures destroying the chain and the coolant systems, 2.0 and 2.4 liters losing head gaskets and oil, 3.1 liters also losing oil, and now Hemi's losing valve seats (earlier Hemi's) and modern Hemi's losing lifters and cams. While other vehicle manufacturers have had their share of problems, NONE and I do mean NONE can compare to the large history of failures Chrysler continues to have. Thus in my strongest opinion, and anyone can take this to the bank, Chrysler needs to close down and let them fade away into history. Ford has had their fair share of problems, but they seem to have bounced back with the eco-boost and the fusion. GM has held strong for a while, until they had initial problems with the LS engine designs (piston slap), and now they too are facing problems with DoD (Displacement on Demand). Hmmmm? Both GM and Chrysler having issues with their cylinder on demand technology...Now if that doesn't leave everyone at the logical conclusion as to the cause of the problem, I do not know what else will. FACT: Displacement on Demand or MDS (what ever you want to call it) is a complete failure. It failed in the 1920's with the early model Ford's; it failed in the 1980's when cadillac tried it, and now it is failing again. Sorry for the long post. I'm frustrated to say the least, and Chrysler has a huge FU headed their way. LOL Joe
 
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Messages
46
Location
Sumter, SC
Update: The MDS Delete kit has been ordered. Only time will tell. On a side note, GM recognizes the same issue, and has released this information. It is clear that GM seems to care about their customers and product owners. I wonder when Chrysler is going to step up and do the same. As suspected, GM also believes their AFM lifter failures are a result of oil pressure issues and likely improper AFM deactivation/reactivation timing. Here is their release: TECHNICAL BULLETINwww.melling.comMelling Engine Parts, P.O. Box 1188, Jackson, MI 49210 GM LS AFM Deactivation LifterIssuesWehave noticed an increase in the issues surrounding the replacement of deactivation lifters in GM LS engines with Active Fuel Management or AFM. After installing new lifters the original issuemay not have been corrected. Most lifters returned for analysis are found to be good. We have found that most lifter faultsare caused by oil pressure issues, or control issues.The AFM activation and deactivation is controlled by the Valve Lifter Oil Manifold or VLOM. The VLOM consists of 4 electronically operated solenoids and is bolted to the top of the engine block beneath the intake manifold assembly. Its job is to direct the flow of pressurized engine oil to the active fuel management intake and exhaust valve lifters. VLOM applies pressurized oil to the AFM lifters when cylinder deactivation is requested, and shuts off that supply of oil to reactivate those cylinders. Cylinder activation and deactivation are both supposed to occur on the base circle of the cam lobe, making the transition from four to eight cylinder mode unnoticeable to the driver. To control contamination a small replaceable oil filter is located in the VLOM inletoil passageway. The AFM oil pressure relief valve regulates the oil supplied to the VLOM and is located in the oil pan near the oil filter housing. The AFM system has an operating range from 27 PSI to 66 PSI of oil pressure. At higher engine speeds the high side of this operating range is controlled by the AFM oilpressure relief valve. At low enginespeeds the low side of the operating range will depend on the engines ability to produce oil pressureusing the flow of oil from the oil pump.The AFM lifter bores in these engines have a spec of .843-.844, and the deactivation lifters require 22 PSI of pressure to release the locking pins. Taking these two things into consideration a lifter bore that is even slightly worn could bleed off enough oil pressure to prevent the lifter from unlocking.In addition it has been reported that it is common to find the VLOM oil filter plugged and needing replacement on high mileage engineswith miss-fire fault codes. Melling has received AFM DEAC lifters back for warranty claims where the lifter has been stuck compressed, this condition can be caused by the VLOM commanding activation or deactivation at the wrong point in the cam's rotation, either in the ramp, or at the lobe peak.Any time an engine has failed AFM lifters the lifter guides must be replaced, the lifter bores must be measured, and the VLOM must also be tested for proper operation, or replaced.In addition the VLOM oil filter must be replaced as well. What say you Chrysler? Still blaming the lifter failures on bad batch's or customer neglect? Joe
 
Messages
1,101
Location
PEARL River la
Originally Posted by tiger862
I looked at these lifters you put and I can guarantee that a new set of lifters will not fix. The lifter bore is out of spec. I see lifter wear at bore so lifter is moving and binding. Your oil loss theory is interesting but I would have to remove engine and have bore fixed as well as cam journal.
Are you doing this before new lifters are installed?
 
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14,582
Location
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted by tiger862
Originally Posted by tiger862
I looked at these lifters you put and I can guarantee that a new set of lifters will not fix. The lifter bore is out of spec. I see lifter wear at bore so lifter is moving and binding. Your oil loss theory is interesting but I would have to remove engine and have bore fixed as well as cam journal.
Are you doing this before new lifters are installed?
I can't wait for your reply.
 
Messages
42,577
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by JosephA
Update: The MDS Delete kit has been ordered. Only time will tell. On a side note, GM recognizes the same issue, and has released this information. It is clear that GM seems to care about their customers and product owners. I wonder when Chrysler is going to step up and do the same. As suspected, GM also believes their AFM lifter failures are a result of oil pressure issues and likely improper AFM deactivation/reactivation timing. Here is their release: TECHNICAL BULLETINwww.melling.comMelling Engine Parts, P.O. Box 1188, Jackson, MI 49210 GM LS AFM Deactivation LifterIssuesWehave noticed an increase in the issues surrounding the replacement of deactivation lifters in GM LS engines with Active Fuel Management or AFM. After installing new lifters the original issuemay not have been corrected. Most lifters returned for analysis are found to be good. We have found that most lifter faultsare caused by oil pressure issues, or control issues.The AFM activation and deactivation is controlled by the Valve Lifter Oil Manifold or VLOM. The VLOM consists of 4 electronically operated solenoids and is bolted to the top of the engine block beneath the intake manifold assembly. Its job is to direct the flow of pressurized engine oil to the active fuel management intake and exhaust valve lifters. VLOM applies pressurized oil to the AFM lifters when cylinder deactivation is requested, and shuts off that supply of oil to reactivate those cylinders. Cylinder activation and deactivation are both supposed to occur on the base circle of the cam lobe, making the transition from four to eight cylinder mode unnoticeable to the driver. To control contamination a small replaceable oil filter is located in the VLOM inletoil passageway. The AFM oil pressure relief valve regulates the oil supplied to the VLOM and is located in the oil pan near the oil filter housing. The AFM system has an operating range from 27 PSI to 66 PSI of oil pressure. At higher engine speeds the high side of this operating range is controlled by the AFM oilpressure relief valve. At low enginespeeds the low side of the operating range will depend on the engines ability to produce oil pressureusing the flow of oil from the oil pump.The AFM lifter bores in these engines have a spec of .843-.844, and the deactivation lifters require 22 PSI of pressure to release the locking pins. Taking these two things into consideration a lifter bore that is even slightly worn could bleed off enough oil pressure to prevent the lifter from unlocking.In addition it has been reported that it is common to find the VLOM oil filter plugged and needing replacement on high mileage engineswith miss-fire fault codes. Melling has received AFM DEAC lifters back for warranty claims where the lifter has been stuck compressed, this condition can be caused by the VLOM commanding activation or deactivation at the wrong point in the cam's rotation, either in the ramp, or at the lobe peak.Any time an engine has failed AFM lifters the lifter guides must be replaced, the lifter bores must be measured, and the VLOM must also be tested for proper operation, or replaced.In addition the VLOM oil filter must be replaced as well. What say you Chrysler? Still blaming the lifter failures on bad batch's or customer neglect? Joe
That quote is from Melling, not GM, FWIW: https://www.melling.com/wp-content/...-Deactivation-Lifter-Issues-3.1.18-1.pdf Seems consistent with what we are discussing here for the most part, though I'm not sure if Chrysler uses a screen to block contamination from the MDS passages. If there is one, you'll likely discover it during your repair. I could certainly see the activation of the system while on the ramp could be problematic, though on the Chrysler setup, with the location of the orifice that feeds the MDS port, I cannot see it engaging with any significant lift as: 1. The pin should not be able to displace with significant pressure on it, so it would have to come back to, or close to, base circle before there was low enough pressure 2. The orifice needs to align with the cut-out in the lifter body where the MDS pressure port is located, which should be blocked by the lower portion of the lifter body upon any significant lift. The oil pressure issue discussed in the linked article isn't about insufficient lifter lubrication, which was the general concern in this thread, it was insufficient engine oil pressure to cause the MDS lifters to operate properly, which could be due to: a. Worn lifter bores, bleeding off too much pressure so the pin stays locked b. Worn engine, resulting in insufficient global pressure so the pin stays locked c. Plugged or partially plugged AFM screen preventing sufficient pressure from reaching the lifters, so the pin stays locked I think the TSB is generally good advice though.
 
Messages
46
Location
Sumter, SC
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by JosephA
Update: The MDS Delete kit has been ordered. Only time will tell. On a side note, GM recognizes the same issue, and has released this information. It is clear that GM seems to care about their customers and product owners. I wonder when Chrysler is going to step up and do the same. As suspected, GM also believes their AFM lifter failures are a result of oil pressure issues and likely improper AFM deactivation/reactivation timing. Here is their release: TECHNICAL BULLETINwww.melling.comMelling Engine Parts, P.O. Box 1188, Jackson, MI 49210 GM LS AFM Deactivation LifterIssuesWehave noticed an increase in the issues surrounding the replacement of deactivation lifters in GM LS engines with Active Fuel Management or AFM. After installing new lifters the original issuemay not have been corrected. Most lifters returned for analysis are found to be good. We have found that most lifter faultsare caused by oil pressure issues, or control issues.The AFM activation and deactivation is controlled by the Valve Lifter Oil Manifold or VLOM. The VLOM consists of 4 electronically operated solenoids and is bolted to the top of the engine block beneath the intake manifold assembly. Its job is to direct the flow of pressurized engine oil to the active fuel management intake and exhaust valve lifters. VLOM applies pressurized oil to the AFM lifters when cylinder deactivation is requested, and shuts off that supply of oil to reactivate those cylinders. Cylinder activation and deactivation are both supposed to occur on the base circle of the cam lobe, making the transition from four to eight cylinder mode unnoticeable to the driver. To control contamination a small replaceable oil filter is located in the VLOM inletoil passageway. The AFM oil pressure relief valve regulates the oil supplied to the VLOM and is located in the oil pan near the oil filter housing. The AFM system has an operating range from 27 PSI to 66 PSI of oil pressure. At higher engine speeds the high side of this operating range is controlled by the AFM oilpressure relief valve. At low enginespeeds the low side of the operating range will depend on the engines ability to produce oil pressureusing the flow of oil from the oil pump.The AFM lifter bores in these engines have a spec of .843-.844, and the deactivation lifters require 22 PSI of pressure to release the locking pins. Taking these two things into consideration a lifter bore that is even slightly worn could bleed off enough oil pressure to prevent the lifter from unlocking.In addition it has been reported that it is common to find the VLOM oil filter plugged and needing replacement on high mileage engineswith miss-fire fault codes. Melling has received AFM DEAC lifters back for warranty claims where the lifter has been stuck compressed, this condition can be caused by the VLOM commanding activation or deactivation at the wrong point in the cam's rotation, either in the ramp, or at the lobe peak.Any time an engine has failed AFM lifters the lifter guides must be replaced, the lifter bores must be measured, and the VLOM must also be tested for proper operation, or replaced.In addition the VLOM oil filter must be replaced as well. What say you Chrysler? Still blaming the lifter failures on bad batch's or customer neglect? Joe
That quote is from Melling, not GM, FWIW: https://www.melling.com/wp-content/...-Deactivation-Lifter-Issues-3.1.18-1.pdf Seems consistent with what we are discussing here for the most part, though I'm not sure if Chrysler uses a screen to block contamination from the MDS passages. If there is one, you'll likely discover it during your repair. I could certainly see the activation of the system while on the ramp could be problematic, though on the Chrysler setup, with the location of the orifice that feeds the MDS port, I cannot see it engaging with any significant lift as: 1. The pin should not be able to displace with significant pressure on it, so it would have to come back to, or close to, base circle before there was low enough pressure 2. The orifice needs to align with the cut-out in the lifter body where the MDS pressure port is located, which should be blocked by the lower portion of the lifter body upon any significant lift. The oil pressure issue discussed in the linked article isn't about insufficient lifter lubrication, which was the general concern in this thread, it was insufficient engine oil pressure to cause the MDS lifters to operate properly, which could be due to: a. Worn lifter bores, bleeding off too much pressure so the pin stays locked b. Worn engine, resulting in insufficient global pressure so the pin stays locked c. Plugged or partially plugged AFM screen preventing sufficient pressure from reaching the lifters, so the pin stays locked I think the TSB is generally good advice though.
No matter how you look at it, it all comes down to simply thought. Did Hemi engines suffer catastrophic lifter failure prior to MDS? As I've stated before, the answer is no. They have valve seat issues which was easily corrected with proper machining. In the same way, did GM have lifter failure prior to the AFM system? The answer is no; the LS engines are a fantastic design despite a short history of initial piston slap issues due to excessive gaping between the rings and the cylinder bore. Both the early Hemi engines and the LS engines were great products. But as soon as both decided to again try cylinder deactivation technology, we are again seeing lifter destruction. Catalack tried this in the 1980's and suffered engine problems then. The solution is simple. Delete MDS and the problem is solved. While there may have been a few Hellcat engines suffering lifter failure, the problem in my opinion is incorrect lubrication for an engine with such high horse power. You can't build a high performance engine using non-weighted engine oil. Could you imagine what would happen to dragsters if they ran their engines on 00-20 non-weighted oil? BOOOOM! The problem is oil...contributing to early failure of weak design lifters, which in turn wipes out the cam lobes. Dump MDS and AFM, go back to standard/traditional engine oil, and the problem is solved. Who gives a crap about the EPA's CAFE standards. I didn't buy the truck to save gas; I bought it do hall trailers and horses. And you can't do that driving a 6 cylinder Japanese engine. The lifter bore is not the cause of the issue or all of them would be failing. It is possible the cam journals might have been damaged, but I believe I caught the problem early enough so as to avoid major engine damage. I installed the cam and lifters 2 days ago. But I freaking forgot to drill out the two broken bolts on the driver side head. So now I have to remove the head again to drill out the stuck bolts and tap-die the hole. The ultimate goal of course is to fix the truck, and dump it; let it become someone else's problem. Rest assured, I will never buy another Dodge product again....NEVER. I've been hosed by that creepy company twice before despite religious oil changes and proper maintenance. You just can't win owning a Dodge. I'm sticking with the more dependable Toyota's and Honda's; at least they honor their warranty unlike Chrysler. Joe
 
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1,101
Location
PEARL River la
So you have 114k miles and this is Dodge's problem? You had it in at 90k then you stated they did something shady to get you pass warranty. WOW is all I have to say. I don't know any dealer that would repair one that is out of warranty by 14k miles unless there was a recall. When you had 104k you decided not to carry it in since it had just been in and noise came back but to drive until complete failure at 114k. Maybe just maybe you could have it gotten it covered if you brought it back telling them noise is still there then let them diagnose. If they were to state your sol call corporation let them know and see if they could help. You will never know. Now you are going to dump it on someone else. I hope you tell them you modified the truck so they know program that computer you are running as well as parts needed for maintenance or repairs when something breaks.
 
Messages
46
Location
Sumter, SC
Originally Posted by tiger862
So you have 114k miles and this is Dodge's problem? You had it in at 90k then you stated they did something shady to get you pass warranty. WOW is all I have to say. I don't know any dealer that would repair one that is out of warranty by 14k miles unless there was a recall. When you had 104k you decided not to carry it in since it had just been in and noise came back but to drive until complete failure at 114k. Maybe just maybe you could have it gotten it covered if you brought it back telling them noise is still there then let them diagnose. If they were to state your sol call corporation let them know and see if they could help. You will never know. Now you are going to dump it on someone else. I hope you tell them you modified the truck so they know program that computer you are running as well as parts needed for maintenance or repairs when something breaks.
It was Dodge's problem for not fixing the problem when it was brought to them at 94,000 miles. I don't know what they did, but I have a friend who works for Toyota in Atlanta, and he deals with warranty departments all of the time. Now this is just a suggestion from his part, but his speculation made sense to me. He suspects that the warranty department refused to cover the needed repairs on my truck because the local Chrysler Dealership obviously failed to service vehicles with the recommended oil. In my case, 0-20 was supposed to be used, but they are using 5W-20 bulk oil; a rather cheap grade of oil. So he suspects the warranty department refused to cover it, and instead told the dealership that they would be the responsible party since they were the likely cause of premature failure. While this cannot be proven by me nor my buddy in Atlanta, what he stated makes sense considering the local dealership in my town lost their five-star rating for corruption and unethical sales tactics. They have the worst service department in my town, and likely in my State. Getting back to my circumstance, the truck should have been repaired correctly while it was under warranty. It apparently wasn't. And for some ungodly reason, I was charged OUT OF POCKET $988 bucks for 16 spark plugs and a fuel system flush. Yet their own advertisement board displayed a full tuneup for just over $200 bucks. So why was I charged so much, especially considering the fact that the problem returned close to 10,000 miles later, only this time it was nearly catastrophic? My buddy suggested that they lied to be about the tuneup in order to hide the lifter problem from me (and likely others whom also experienced the same problem as I) and needed to cover the cost of parts (lifter(s), gaskets, and labor to pay the mechanic). Now I'm not saying this is exactly what happened, but as I've stated, it all makes sense. There's no way a tuneup and fuel flush should cost nearly $1,000 bucks. And I am pretty certain that my upgrade will last a [censored] of a lot longer than the stock repair. I've installed a custom cam with a diablosport tune, and she's up and running. I started her up and she instantly prrrr'd like a kitten. And no hemi tick; no knocking; no clattering; just as quiet as an engine should be. Time will tell of course, but we've decided to keep it now that I've gained a lot more knowledge of this engine; a rather simple engine to work on I might add. In fact, I am thinking of searching for a RAM for myself (this one belongs to my wife). I could easily find someone who might be wanting to dump their hemi-tick RAM; I'll buy it cheap, upgrade the engine with a nice tune, and enjoy a nice powerful truck. We use it for towing horse trailers so we needed the power. I'd much prefer a diesel but I'm waiting on Toyota to finally begin selling their new line of trucks with the Cummin's diesel engine. I'm told it should be out sometime around or after 2020. Here's to hoping. And for the record, I am using 5W-30 Full Synthetic Mobile 1 engine oil and my Hemi loves it. I also performed an idle test with the passenger side (bank 2) valve cover off, and there is plenty of oil flowing atop of the head. So I know the valve train is getting plenty of good quality lubrication. After all, with a 400+ HP engine, using a weighted engine oil is a must. The idiot(s) that decided to use 00-20 engine oil on a high output engine should be hung, in my personal opinion. That was a very stupid decision, EPA standards notwithstanding. If people want to save money on fuel, then buy a Toyota, Honda, or even a Ford Fusion; they make some really great cars. I can't say that for Chrysler, and lately even GM. Seems like GM is starting to slip some. She's running great guys. Right now I have her tuned for economy. But when ever we have to pull, she'll get re-tuned for heavy towing. I'm certain she will last a bit longer than the crap the stealership pulled on me. Let the record show that I've lost 2 prior Dodge's from that stealership after their poor maintenance. A 1997 Dodge Stratus that seized months after a head gasket failure/replacement; and a 2002 Dodge Stratus R/T 8 months after they replaced the water pump, which failed again and destroyed the timing chain. Finally, if I did sell the truck, unlike Chrysler and their service reps, I would be honest and tell them everything that was done to the truck. [censored] they'd probably thank me for it. I've got 3 friends all wanting me to repair there's now. And I'm all for it. It makes no sense for the stealership's to be charging $5,000 to $7,000 bucks for a silly camshaft and lifter replacement. I could do it in 2 days or less if I had the parts. Tt took me 2 months to get mine fixed due to awaiting parts and conducting thorough research. I'm totally convinced the problem is directly/mostly related to MDS operation (as with GM SUV's and Trucks), and insufficient lubrication for a hard-working engine. 0-20 or 5W-20 are both insufficient. To anyone else out there who might be reading this post and would like to know which oil to use, don't waste your money on Redline..not worth the cost for a mere name. Use 5W-30 or 5W-40 Mobile 1 Full Synthetic oil. This only applies to those who wisely deleted their MDS system with a non-MDS cam and lifters, as well as a tune. If you Hemi still has the MDS, you can deactivate it with a tuner. But you are better off dumping the MDS all together and enjoying the full potential of an 8 cylinder Hemi. Besides, MDS doesn't save you enough money since it's maintenance/repair cost exceeds (by a large amount) the minute fuel savings. Joe
 
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Originally Posted by Whitestar
Joe, did your truck experience the lifter clatter on cold startups like mine?
I hear a lot of cars from various brands making the same noises on a cold start. Discouraging but not uncommon.
 
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Whitestar
Joe, did your truck experience the lifter clatter on cold startups like mine?
I hear a lot of cars from various brands making the same noises on a cold start. Discouraging but not uncommon.
I've never had that issue except once. I was parked at a slope where the passenger side was higher than the drivers side.
 
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Location
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Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
I've never had that issue except once. I was parked at a slope where the passenger side was higher than the drivers side.
Interesting observation. Like I said I've heard quite a few newer vehicles that make that same noise. I'll hear it not quite as pronounced in my 3.6L Pentastar, but it would have to be sitting a few weeks w/o being driven in order to make that noise. Then the noise will last 1-2 seconds at most. The lifters do leak down, which they claim causes the noise and it is supposed to be "normal." I guess "normal" can mean a lot of things.
 
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