Preparing for the double dip recession.
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Originally Posted By: buster
This crisis should not be paid for on the backs of middle class Americans. Trickle down economics is a joke. The wealthy have never had it so good.
My point about small business owners is that some think they are economic wizards because they run a business but most don't understand the monetary system and how it all works at macro level.
Buster, you're right, they probably don't, and I certainly don't. We have been creating money out of thin air and spending it on something, anything for several years now. The economy has not improved, and I think any objective observer would say it has regressed.
So in light of this evidence, which appears to be uncontroverted, why not go back to something that might work, like making it easier for private business and industry to create jobs?
And if you want to do the class warfare thing, the "poor" have never had it so good. Entitlements are breaking the country and are perhaps the most divisive topic in dealing with the budget, which many of us believe should be balanced.
If you want to advocate reforming the tax code to simplify it and get rid of loopholes, I'm all in for that. But everybody that votes ought to pay some taxes, even the "poor".
This crisis should not be paid for on the backs of middle class Americans. Trickle down economics is a joke. The wealthy have never had it so good.
My point about small business owners is that some think they are economic wizards because they run a business but most don't understand the monetary system and how it all works at macro level.
Buster, you're right, they probably don't, and I certainly don't. We have been creating money out of thin air and spending it on something, anything for several years now. The economy has not improved, and I think any objective observer would say it has regressed.
So in light of this evidence, which appears to be uncontroverted, why not go back to something that might work, like making it easier for private business and industry to create jobs?
And if you want to do the class warfare thing, the "poor" have never had it so good. Entitlements are breaking the country and are perhaps the most divisive topic in dealing with the budget, which many of us believe should be balanced.
If you want to advocate reforming the tax code to simplify it and get rid of loopholes, I'm all in for that. But everybody that votes ought to pay some taxes, even the "poor".
Originally Posted By: buster
We had our business man Bush in there Drew. FAIL.
Oh please. He was a daddy's boy elite. He wasn't a real true small business owner. If you're trying to compare him to a real local small business owner, that is the true fail.
When are some of you guys going to get away from the false left right paradigm?
We had our business man Bush in there Drew. FAIL.
Oh please. He was a daddy's boy elite. He wasn't a real true small business owner. If you're trying to compare him to a real local small business owner, that is the true fail.
When are some of you guys going to get away from the false left right paradigm?
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: buster
We had our business man Bush in there Drew. FAIL.
Oh please. He was a daddy's boy elite. He wasn't a real true small business owner. If you're trying to compare him to a real local small business owner, that is the true fail.
When are some of you guys going to get away from the false left right paradigm?
+1
I was being sarcastic. I remember how proud conservatives were when MBA Bush was taking over. LOL!!!
Originally Posted By: buster
We had our business man Bush in there Drew. FAIL.
Oh please. He was a daddy's boy elite. He wasn't a real true small business owner. If you're trying to compare him to a real local small business owner, that is the true fail.
When are some of you guys going to get away from the false left right paradigm?
+1
I was being sarcastic. I remember how proud conservatives were when MBA Bush was taking over. LOL!!!
Originally Posted By: Win
Buster, true enough, probably, but most do have a bit of knowledge about how to create jobs, something I think most macro economists, and economists in general, have little real world experience with.
And a guy who should have dropped out of Yale have a lot of qualification running the biggest economy in the world, by increasing government spending in defense/war.
Look, no body has been blaming the Italian debt crisis for the trigger yesterday and everything is the federal government's fault. No body has been blaming the reduced spending of 2T would trickle down to the economy as reduced demand of all sort from the most effective multiplier among all income earner (lower income people spend more than the rich percentage wise). Yeah, it is all the "spending not cut enough" fault.
I can bet you my house that if we get a 4T spending cut we would have dropped even more, and the tea drinkers would still blame it on 4T is not big enough of a cut and we need 8T of a cut.
Buster, true enough, probably, but most do have a bit of knowledge about how to create jobs, something I think most macro economists, and economists in general, have little real world experience with.
And a guy who should have dropped out of Yale have a lot of qualification running the biggest economy in the world, by increasing government spending in defense/war.
Look, no body has been blaming the Italian debt crisis for the trigger yesterday and everything is the federal government's fault. No body has been blaming the reduced spending of 2T would trickle down to the economy as reduced demand of all sort from the most effective multiplier among all income earner (lower income people spend more than the rich percentage wise). Yeah, it is all the "spending not cut enough" fault.
I can bet you my house that if we get a 4T spending cut we would have dropped even more, and the tea drinkers would still blame it on 4T is not big enough of a cut and we need 8T of a cut.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
You guys worry to much, a little market correction and its over.
FYI the markets had a bad day today because of whats going on in Europe, but no one was really paying to much attention on this side of the pond.
I suppose you really think that the "unemployment figures" & a 117,00 job increase were coincidently announced after this bad day? Its almost as if a damage control team is ad libbing this stuff. Why not release this data before the stock tumble. The same thing that's going on here is happening all over. This depression isn't over yet, its getting second wind.
What should be more of concern is when does the Super Congress take the helm:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/meet-super-congress-191709031.html
George Lucas had it right...or do you think the emperor will lay aside his emergency powers after the threat has passed ??
You guys worry to much, a little market correction and its over.
FYI the markets had a bad day today because of whats going on in Europe, but no one was really paying to much attention on this side of the pond.
I suppose you really think that the "unemployment figures" & a 117,00 job increase were coincidently announced after this bad day? Its almost as if a damage control team is ad libbing this stuff. Why not release this data before the stock tumble. The same thing that's going on here is happening all over. This depression isn't over yet, its getting second wind.
What should be more of concern is when does the Super Congress take the helm:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/meet-super-congress-191709031.html
George Lucas had it right...or do you think the emperor will lay aside his emergency powers after the threat has passed ??
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Originally Posted By: buster
He was going to run the WH like a well oiled machine. LOL!!
Truth is, there are many problems and so much to consider. No silver bullet solution.
Exactly. We made this mess legislatively, now it's up the the legislatures to fix it.
I'm preparing by re-shuffling my finances, triaging what hard goods needs to be replaced/repaired/done without, and finding ways of saving money.
He was going to run the WH like a well oiled machine. LOL!!
Truth is, there are many problems and so much to consider. No silver bullet solution.
Exactly. We made this mess legislatively, now it's up the the legislatures to fix it.
I'm preparing by re-shuffling my finances, triaging what hard goods needs to be replaced/repaired/done without, and finding ways of saving money.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think Ben Bernanke or Alan Greenspan understand how our monetary system and economy fundamentally works!
I agree..
I don't think Ben Bernanke or Alan Greenspan understand how our monetary system and economy fundamentally works!
I agree..
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
It's not a double dip. It's not even a single big dip. Rather, it's the new norm.
I agree 100%. Jobs, jobs, and JOBS. The last decade was built on nothing but real estate equity. That is gone now. I know most people think education and college is the key for EVERY young person to pursue, but the simple fact is, it's not. Decades ago, most young people who did not want higher education could get jobs in manufacturing or other more asset based businesses that provided a real living wage and a chance at the American Dream. Today, many college graduates can't even find a decent job that provides a living wage because they're overseas. The modern day equivalent of a "middle class" domestic manufacturing job 40 years ago is working at Walmart or the Verizon store. IT jobs that paid well a decade ago are becoming mediocre. Landscaping. construction, or agriculture? FORGET ABOUT IT. Illegals working for peanuts do those jobs and they're used to a much lower standard of living. Service based retail jobs are what's available to the average Joe for the most part. Credit is maxed out and people no longer have the ability to buy the latest Chinese trinket or triple latte 3 times a day from Starbucks. When upwards of 15% of people can't get good jobs and can no longer easily use credit to purchase things, the economy is going to shrink.
This is a structural design of the global economy that IMO has been designed this way. It's called globalism, and it sure was pounded into my head in college a decade ago that it's going to be GREAT for everyone.
Agreed!
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
It's not a double dip. It's not even a single big dip. Rather, it's the new norm.
I agree 100%. Jobs, jobs, and JOBS. The last decade was built on nothing but real estate equity. That is gone now. I know most people think education and college is the key for EVERY young person to pursue, but the simple fact is, it's not. Decades ago, most young people who did not want higher education could get jobs in manufacturing or other more asset based businesses that provided a real living wage and a chance at the American Dream. Today, many college graduates can't even find a decent job that provides a living wage because they're overseas. The modern day equivalent of a "middle class" domestic manufacturing job 40 years ago is working at Walmart or the Verizon store. IT jobs that paid well a decade ago are becoming mediocre. Landscaping. construction, or agriculture? FORGET ABOUT IT. Illegals working for peanuts do those jobs and they're used to a much lower standard of living. Service based retail jobs are what's available to the average Joe for the most part. Credit is maxed out and people no longer have the ability to buy the latest Chinese trinket or triple latte 3 times a day from Starbucks. When upwards of 15% of people can't get good jobs and can no longer easily use credit to purchase things, the economy is going to shrink.
This is a structural design of the global economy that IMO has been designed this way. It's called globalism, and it sure was pounded into my head in college a decade ago that it's going to be GREAT for everyone.
Agreed!
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think Ben Bernanke or Alan Greenspan understand how our monetary system and economy fundamentally works!
I agree..
I agree too, which is why Mosler has my attention.
I don't claim to know what is going to happen or to be an expert, but things are more complicated than some people make them out to be.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think Ben Bernanke or Alan Greenspan understand how our monetary system and economy fundamentally works!
I agree..
I agree too, which is why Mosler has my attention.
I don't claim to know what is going to happen or to be an expert, but things are more complicated than some people make them out to be.
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
it seems like everyone likes talking, but nobody does anything about it. Let's try to get everyone to vote these knuckleheads out of office
Voting doesn't change anything fundamentally! Special interest money that funds elections - get that out and maybe US citizens would have a fighting chance. Until then, bought and paid for hoes...........I mean politicians will continue turning tricks for johns.........I mean corporations and banks!
it seems like everyone likes talking, but nobody does anything about it. Let's try to get everyone to vote these knuckleheads out of office
Voting doesn't change anything fundamentally! Special interest money that funds elections - get that out and maybe US citizens would have a fighting chance. Until then, bought and paid for hoes...........I mean politicians will continue turning tricks for johns.........I mean corporations and banks!
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
it seems like everyone likes talking, but nobody does anything about it. Let's try to get everyone to vote these knuckleheads out of office
Voting doesn't change anything fundamentally! Special interest money that funds elections - get that out and maybe US citizens would have a fighting chance. Until then, bought and paid for hoes...........I mean politicians will continue turning tricks for johns.........I mean corporations and banks!
Bingo. No more discussion needed. That is the truth!
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
it seems like everyone likes talking, but nobody does anything about it. Let's try to get everyone to vote these knuckleheads out of office
Voting doesn't change anything fundamentally! Special interest money that funds elections - get that out and maybe US citizens would have a fighting chance. Until then, bought and paid for hoes...........I mean politicians will continue turning tricks for johns.........I mean corporations and banks!
Bingo. No more discussion needed. That is the truth!
Only a stupid small businessperson would know why there is essentially no job creation.
U.S. government expecting debt downgrade: ABC News
Thank you very much, I'm so glad that there's no tax increase to pay off more debt.
Thank you very much, I'm so glad that there's no tax increase to pay off more debt.
After the do nothing bill Congress passed Monday this country deserves a down grade. We should have a bill that put us on a gradual path to balance the budget and eliminate fannie Mae freddie mac, bring our troops home, raise the retirement age,downs ize washington by 50%.
Quote:
Financial strategists do not intend to let today’s debt crisis go to waste. Foreclosure time has arrived. That means revolution – or more accurately, a counter-revolution to roll back the 20th century’s gains made by social democracy: pensions and social security, public health care and other infrastructure providing essential services at subsidized prices or for free. The basic model follows the former Soviet Union’s post-1991 neoliberal reforms: privatization of public enterprises, a high flat tax on labor but only nominal taxes on real estate and finance, and deregulation of the economy’s prices, working conditions and credit terms.
What is to be reversed is the “modern” agenda. The aim a century ago was to mobilize the Industrial Revolution’s soaring productivity and technology to raise living standards and use progressive taxation, public regulation, central banking and financial reform to distribute wealth fairly and make societies more equal. Today’s financial aim is the opposite: to concentrate wealth at the top of the economic pyramid and lower labor’s returns. High finance loves l
Financial capitalism has replaced industrial capitalism. Banks dominate governments worldwide. Most Americans want the same basic things, and I think we can do better by reforming the monetary system. The left vs right paradigm is old.
Financial strategists do not intend to let today’s debt crisis go to waste. Foreclosure time has arrived. That means revolution – or more accurately, a counter-revolution to roll back the 20th century’s gains made by social democracy: pensions and social security, public health care and other infrastructure providing essential services at subsidized prices or for free. The basic model follows the former Soviet Union’s post-1991 neoliberal reforms: privatization of public enterprises, a high flat tax on labor but only nominal taxes on real estate and finance, and deregulation of the economy’s prices, working conditions and credit terms.
What is to be reversed is the “modern” agenda. The aim a century ago was to mobilize the Industrial Revolution’s soaring productivity and technology to raise living standards and use progressive taxation, public regulation, central banking and financial reform to distribute wealth fairly and make societies more equal. Today’s financial aim is the opposite: to concentrate wealth at the top of the economic pyramid and lower labor’s returns. High finance loves l
Financial capitalism has replaced industrial capitalism. Banks dominate governments worldwide. Most Americans want the same basic things, and I think we can do better by reforming the monetary system. The left vs right paradigm is old.
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