PP 5W-20SM, 5506 miles, Honda 05 Odyssey, OLM 15%

[HondaMan]

First, many thanks to Terry for his services.

Terry and I have been looking at the fuel dilution for quite some time on this particular van as others have recently noted on their V6 Hondas.

In this regard, I switched from MC to PP after the previous UOA at 28913 miles. I did run a shorter (~4k) PP interval before this current UOA. Oil filters have always been Honda Filtech other than that short 4k initial PP run when I spun on an EaO13, which I should of kept on, but I did not.

This UOA was with Honda Filtech oil and air filters. No make up oil, no adds. OLM taken down to 15%.

PP held up very nicely considering the fuel dilut. problem.

Another round of PP is in and this time, I am considering NOT changing the Honda Filtech Oil filter to see what Terry notices.

BTW: OLM does seem to me very trust worthy with the proper oil.

 

[Al]

Nice. What is the coolant number? Percent?

 

[Gene K]

I have seen PP test positive for Glycol in VOA. Evidently there is something in the additive chemistry in the oil. Also Terry's New Lab seems to have a more sensitive Glycol Test.

Just for confirmation are you sure you dont have the last two runs of MC 5W-20 switched? A SM/GF-4 with near 1000 ppm zinc is a major no-no. The previous oil labeled SL appears to be SM/GF-4 compliant.

 

[buster]

Really like the spreadsheet Dyson is usng. Looks great. Report does too.

 

[Gene K]

After review it appears you can get Zinc up to 1000 ppm without exceeding 800 ppm phosphorus. I didnt think you could go that high.

 

[HondaMan]

Gene K,

I do remember at that time, I had some SL, and some of that SL in donut/SM on the label, and what I was did was take those bottles back to Wally World and exchange for the newer SM labeled bottles.

I can confirm that the last run of MC was all API SM as I did not run the previous that long because I wanted to make sure I was running pure SM as this is when we started to note the fuel dilution and I had gotten worried.
(started showing at 22292 miles, so I only ran the oil a short while, poured in pure SM and hoped to see the fuel go away in the UOA at 28913 miles, but it did not)
(I did not expect SM to cure the problem, I was hoping it was a one time thing, I was hoping the SM would stand up better and I believe it did on that run, but still the fuel, hence the switch to a tougher oil in PP)

I cannot comment on the Zinc as I have no clue.

You are correct on the Glycol!!

Buster, thanks.
Terry's reports are very nice. They are now in pdf, but I had one of his older ones that I have been adding to, then I simply cut-n-paste into a program to convert to jpg.
Terry provides a great service, so I take a little extra time to setup the post.

 

[lindermant]

Nice #'s, and nice format. How do the fuel numbers translate into %? (trying to compare to my Ody's info) Is the flashpoint low?

Leave that Filtech oil filter in place with confidence - I run 'em to 10k on my Civic without hesitation.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I run the same oil to 10k on my Civic because of lindermant's Havoline dino 10k UOA a while back. If Platinum holds up this well in the Honda V6 I think I'm doing the right thing.

 

[SubLGT]

Is Honda using lead free bearings in this V6?

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Silicon is 14. Guess I have nothing to worry about with the K&N in my '04 3.5L as the Silicon reading was 10.

Terry's new format is easy on the eyes!

 

[HondaMan]

Everyone,

I should have mentioned that about 4k into this UOA, I pulled the AF in place of a new one, it was past time. Very noticeable with the new Honda OEM Filtech the second it was swapped out. Much easier acceleration. Terry has wanted me to go with a plain paper version, my problem is that NO ONE has this filter stocked.

I just need to stock up on AFs ... I do on oil filters, might as well on the air filters also.

 

[HondaMan]

Quote:

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Nice #'s, and nice format. How do the fuel numbers translate into %? (trying to compare to my Ody's info) Is the flashpoint low?

Leave that Filtech oil filter in place with confidence - I run 'em to 10k on my Civic without hesitation.

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Terry gives me a number in % with the analysis in terms of fuel dilution, I do not know how it is derived. I know that the flash point of this oil is 196 C per the PP data sheet.

196 C = 385 F, so my flash point is very low in this regard.

 

[lindermant]

hondaman - have you used FILTECH air filters every time? I get mine online, and the vendor has sent two versions:

- FILTECH USA version has green oiled paper media
- FILTECH CANADA version has white oiled paper media.

I'm curious if your varying Si levels might be attributable to the diff media (assuming of course you used FILTECH air filters each time).

 

[HondaMan]

Quote:

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hondaman - question for you regarding the FILTECH air filters. I get mine online, and the vendor has sent two versions:

- FILTECH USA version has green oiled paper media
- FILTECH CANADA version has white oiled paper media.

Do you remember which type you've installed? I'm curious if your varying Si levels might be attributable to this???

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Well this will be interesting... they are USA, but the paper is not green and the media is two sided, there are actually two colors, on one side a normal brownish media color and on the other BLUE, not green. Treated for sure as it comes sealed in a bag and smells very strong when opened.

I mentioned this somewhat in this thread (pic of filter):
Link

I have bought three now and they have always been two sided one color being blue. The big question for you I guess is if your media is two sided and different colors? (as blue vs. green could be in the eye of the beholder)(No doubt blue in my mind and to my eyes)

I did run a Wix for one run, but I did not take a UOA that run, I did not like it much as it cost the same as the Honda and it had to be ordered and it was made in Korea. I think I did mention this also in a thread some time ago.

As Terry has stated publicly, these should be changed early and often and that perhaps a plain paper filter would be better.

 

[Gene K]

Yes, Terry likes a simple Fram Air Filter Element as the Filtechs extra restriction can "trick" the ECM into running to rich.

Are the US-Honda V-6 Oil Filters Allied-Signal (Fram) supplied like the Civic or are they Japanese like the S2000?

 

[lindermant]

thanks hondaman, I'll check my Ody's air filter stash when I get home.

I'm probably mistaken though; I know the Filtech filters for my civic are diff colors (USA vs CANADA) - I could've just assumed the same for the Ody filter

 

[HondaMan]

Gene K,

The filters I have been running are not of the Fram version but of the Filtech Inc. version.

Filtech Inc. is an international company that I do believe hails from Japan, but these oil filters are made in Ohio by Filtech Inc USA.

 

[4esorselrahc]

Nice looking report there. Are you using their premium kit?I just did my first change (4305 mi) although my oil life was at 50% yet on my 07 Odyssey, and collected a sample for analysis. I may use DysonAnalysis.

 

[HondaMan]

Quote:

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Nice looking report there. Are you using their premium kit?I just did my first change (4305 mi) although my oil life was at 50% yet on my 07 Odyssey, and collected a sample for analysis. I may use DysonAnalysis.

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Yes to the premium kit. Again to everyone, I have used Terry's format, but I am growing the report/format on my own in order to present it nicely with the entire history. Each report I get from Terry is for that single UOA and is now currently in PDF format. Terry gives alot of detail per element/reading and I simply strip those comments out and add newest column to my XLS.

I would bet your UOA would look close to that of mine which I took alittle earlier than you did. Others like Martyi I believe have taken the factor fill out to OLM 15% and done UOAs.... those are a good reference also. Pablo also just took a FF UOA as well if I remember correctly.

 

[martyi]

Yes HondaMan, I did take the factory fill out to 15% oil life expectancy but I did not do a UOA on it, it was the first replacement fill that I had Terry do his analysis. This was with Havoline 5w20 dino and it came out very well. He suggested some fine tunning of LC20 doseage and that I replace the OEM AF with the Fram, which I did. Basically, my Honda with 12,500 miles was still a motor breaking in as it had little wear showing. Even the fuel dilution was within the benchmark figures but the advice to replace the AF every 10,000 miles is to play it safe. The OEM filters are too efficient. BTW, the Fram AF for this motor can be found at Advanced Auto but may have to be special ordered.