Oil recommendation - 2010 Mustang GT 4.6L ???

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

The engine builders agreed on 5W20 in the OPs application, and back it up with a warranty, and billions of miles logged. Unless the OP plans on modifying the engine or drag racing I'd stick with 5W20.


If that's the case, why are we here? If the people can just look on the oil fill cap to get the recommended viscosity, why are we here? Maybe we should all go home right now and mind our own business.

I am home. My suggestion is if you know better than Ford send them a resume. A great company, cutting edge too. If they felt 5W30, 5W40, or a 50 grade oil was best they'd suggest it. 5W20 isn't the only oil Ford recommends, their Turbo engines, Diesel engines, and engines in the HP Cobra all use something other than a 20 grade, so they could have easily suggested another grade of oil. If they felt the OPs engine would be better suited with a thicker oil they would have recommended it.

I've discussed this at length in PM land with Johnny a retired Pennzoil employee. Who is very familiar with the testing of 20 grade oils in both Ford and Honda applications. Doug Hillary and I have chatted about it too. If you read any of Doug's threads he'll say "use what the mfg suggests" as well. Doug knows more about oil and lubrication than anyone on this board, so what he writes means a lot to me. All I can tell you is the 20 grade oils have been extensively tested and work well in applications "calling for it". Believe what you want. The OP's car will do just fine running with it in the sump.

 

[Ben99GT]

John Tymensky, an ex-Ford engineer who was involved with the Modular's development and is also the premiere Modular race builder in the US recommends 30-weights.

Scott Whitehead, lead power train engineer for the Mustang 4.6 3V and the Aviator 4.6 4V, recommends 30 weights and attests to lower wear observed in OEM durability testing when using 30-weight oils versus 20-weight.

Sure, the OEM recommendation means it is safe to use but not necessarily the best option if minimizing wear is your main concern. OEM's have fuel economy (CAFE) criteria that weighs heavily on their recommendations.

 

[dave1251]

How many broken down Ford's that we have used 5W-20 for the last 10 years broken down on the road?

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
How many broken down Ford's that we have used 5W-20 for the last 10 years broken down on the road?


Irrelevant point is irrelevant. It would take statistical data, warranty repair rates among other, that none of us have access to to factually prove that 20 weight oils have a negative, positive or no impact on engine life.

The wear differences attested to by a Ford power-train engineer that actually did comparative tear down analysis is enough for me, especially when compounded by the word of an ex-powertrain engineer that now successfully builds Modulars for all sorts of high demand use. I don't think there is anyone that knows the engine better. Not enough for you? Cool by me, and I have no wish to go down this road again.

5W-20 will not cause your engine to self destruct, but that doesn't mean it is the "best" option for all 5W-20 spec'd Fords.

 

[BubbaFL]

FWIW, go here http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36607 and read the posts by swhiteh3.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

5W-20 will not cause your engine to self destruct, but that doesn't mean it is the "best" option for all 5W-20 spec'd Fords.


Ding!! Ding!! Ding!! We have a winner!!

 

[hardcore302]

Use a motor craft filter and any quality synthetic 5w20.

 

[FordSVTGuy]

I have been using a Motorcraft filter and Mobil1 5W-20 in my 2006 Mustang GT knowing that my engine is protected. Any similar combo will do well. I do have Castrol Syntec 5-W20 on deck...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
FWIW, go here http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36607 and read the posts by swhiteh3.


Wow then millions of Ford Modular engines are doomed, and soon to be littering junkyards across the USA.

In high performance race applications, or highly modified engines using a heavier grade oil would be advisable. There were also comments about in that thread about using oil that's too thick and ruining bearings. Oil flow issues through tight bearings when the engine is cold was the reason stated. Crazyoildude rebuilds engines, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that he's seen his fair share of engine failures too. Doug Hillary has been at this game for more years than the majority of the membership is alive, and always recommends the mfg suggested viscosity, unless an engine has been altered. He was testing using 20 grade oils in VWs and Porsches in the 1960s w/o issue. Todays oils are even better.

I also read that swhiteh3 was not a happy camper when he left Ford FWIW, after all this is the internet so who knows? But I seriously doubt Ford, Honda, and Toyota would want the bad publicity of recommending an oil viscosity that would ruin their engines. People buy more than one car in a lifetime, and if they have a bad experience will change brands of cars. My 95 Caprice comes to mind, as a result I don't seem me owning a GM product anytime soon. And once again, Ford also suggests 30 grade, and even 50 grade oils in some of their applications, because it is better suited for those applications.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
5W-20 will not cause your engine to self destruct, but that doesn't mean it is the "best" option for all 5W-20 spec'd Fords.


This. Nice job, Ben. Facts, please, like this ^^. Not Internet hysteria.

While the Net has made a great deal of info available, it comes with a price. Anyone can start blogging (blabbing) but that doesn't mean it's the truth.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: dave1251
How many broken down Ford's that we have used 5W-20 for the last 10 years broken down on the road?


Irrelevant point is irrelevant. It would take statistical data, warranty repair rates among other, that none of us have access to to factually prove that 20 weight oils have a negative, positive or no impact on engine life.

The wear differences attested to by a Ford power-train engineer that actually did comparative tear down analysis is enough for me, especially when compounded by the word of an ex-powertrain engineer that now successfully builds Modulars for all sorts of high demand us. I don't think there is anyone that knows the engine better. Not enough for you? Cool by me, and I have no wish to go down this road again.



Irrelevent? I have personal experance of 200,000 miles of using 5W-20's on Ford Modulars no oil related problems. Electrical systems that is another story. Also if you want to look at repair data since 01 on any Ford vehical it is not hard to look up. I can also tell you I will get tired of my Ford truck before the engine explodes and this is the rule not the exception.

 

[demarpaint]

Isn't it a team that works on designing engines, not a single person? I think we might have a case of one person not agreeing with the team, and being overruled by the team. That person no longer works for Ford, and is sharing his opinion, as if he was the only person responsible for the engine design and oil specs. This is the internet and people tend to embellish to drive a point home, especially if they were upset about something. Again this is the internet, and this could be a case of a sour grape. 20 grade is not the only oil Ford specs, some applications use a different viscosity, engineering teams also made those decisions.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Isn't it a team that works on designing engines, not a single person? I think we might have a case of one person not agreeing with the team, and being overruled by the team. That person no longer works for Ford, and is sharing his opinion, as if he was the only person responsible for the engine design and oil specs. This is the internet and people tend to embellish to drive a point home, especially if they were upset about something. Again this is the internet, and this could be a case of a sour grape. 20 grade is not the only oil Ford specs, some applications use a different viscosity, engineering teams also made those decisions.


I could not have said it any better. Also if this engineer whould provide some data with his claim. Like with 5W-20 motor will last between 300,000-400,000. On 5W-30 it will last between 325,000-425,000.

 

[cheetahdriver]

Until someone shows me a series of UOA from good quality Xw20 oils used in this application that are breaking down and causing wear that Xw40 oils are preventing, I will recommend going with the Ford recommendation. I have tested 5w20 in a Toyota Tundra V8 doing towing (which actually recommends a 10w30 in that year), and it actually did better than my M1 0w40.

The thick oil guys need to get some "Just for Men", their gray is showing...

 

[Nickdfresh]

I'd just use a top shelf synthetic 0/5W-20 like Mobil 1/Castrol Edge/SOPUS and call it a day. I mean, the car has a six quart sump, does anyone really think an XW-20 is going to break down and cause anymore wear than a 30 or 40 weight?

 

[Unleashedbeast]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
John Tymensky, an ex-Ford engineer who was involved with the Modular's development and is also the premiere Modular race builder in the US recommends 30-weights.

Scott Whitehead, lead power train engineer for the Mustang 4.6 3V and the Aviator 4.6 4V, recommends 30 weights and attests to lower wear observed in OEM durability testing when using 30-weight oils versus 20-weight.

Sure, the OEM recommendation means it is safe to use but not necessarily the best option if minimizing wear is your main concern. OEM's have fuel economy (CAFE) criteria that weighs heavily on their recommendations.



^THIS!

So funny how someone in this thread said, Ford knows better, and they even recommend a heavier weight oils for their Cobras....etc...Those cars are a very small percentage, and not the focus of this thread.

Seriously?

The 5W-20 recommendation is about CAFE laws, period! A quality API SM/SN 5W-20 lubricant will still allow the engine to achieve plenty of miles to surpass warranty coverage periods, but this isn't to say it's the best for anti-wear. No way in H E double hockey sticks would I ever use a xW-20 in any of my Ford Modular engines (unless it was a purpose built dedicated racing engine that had pressure issues). I've already proven with real world testing that a top tier xW-30 is superior in longevity and anti-wear versus comparable xW-20.

Ford made a sacrifice to increase profits. They know the engine will still survive the warranty period under MOST applications.

 

[Unleashedbeast]

I also want to add:

Most Mustang Modular engines are not stock. Banking on a recommendation of 5W-20 when you are creating above stock HP/TQ is not reasonable.

 

[cheetahdriver]

Originally Posted By: Unleashedbeast
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
John Tymensky, an ex-Ford engineer who was involved with the Modular's development and is also the premiere Modular race builder in the US recommends 30-weights.

Scott Whitehead, lead power train engineer for the Mustang 4.6 3V and the Aviator 4.6 4V, recommends 30 weights and attests to lower wear observed in OEM durability testing when using 30-weight oils versus 20-weight.

Sure, the OEM recommendation means it is safe to use but not necessarily the best option if minimizing wear is your main concern. OEM's have fuel economy (CAFE) criteria that weighs heavily on their recommendations.



^THIS!

So funny how someone in this thread said, Ford knows better, and they even recommend a heavier weight oils for their Cobras....etc...Those cars are a very small percentage, and not the focus of this thread.

Seriously?

The 5W-20 recommendation is about CAFE laws, period! A quality API SM/SN 5W-20 lubricant will still allow the engine to achieve plenty of miles to surpass warranty coverage periods, but this isn't to say it's the best for anti-wear. No way in H E double hockey sticks would I ever use a xW-20 in any of my Ford Modular engines (unless it was a purpose built dedicated racing engine that had pressure issues). I've already proven with real world testing that a top tier xW-30 is superior in longevity and anti-wear versus comparable xW-20.

Ford made a sacrifice to increase profits. They know the engine will still survive the warranty period under MOST applications.


Congratulations. You personally have uncovered the great conspiracy by the automotive companies against the consumers of their autos. Amazingly enough, you have also personally figured out a way to thwart their nefarious plans.

Congratulations and perhaps a medal are in order.

 

[Unleashedbeast]

Originally Posted By: cheetahdriver
Congratulations. You personally have uncovered the great conspiracy by the automotive companies against the consumers of their autos. Amazingly enough, you have also personally figured out a way to thwart their nefarious plans.

Congratulations and perhaps a medal are in order.


Your sarcasm made me laugh, thanks for that.

Not a conspiracy, just a business decision with an acceptable sacrifice to increase profits.

 

[demarpaint]

Ford, Honda, Toyota, and Chrysler all have to warranty their engines. Big gamble if the oil is in fact inferior, in fact they'd probably be out of business by now with warranty claims because 20 grade oil has been use for quite a while now. Police are using it in CV Cruisers all over the USA, we would have heard of police cars blowing up by the hundreds by now. Also not to beat a dead horse, if the application calls for a "thicker" oil, they do recommend it as well.