Oil for supercharged Silverado

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
tiredtrucker....

What's the HTHS of the 30 in your rig ?

what's the HTHS on an ILSAC 30 ???

What's the bearing dimensions and applied pressure (force over area) ?

Have asked these questions each time you pop up with the same meme...and you NEVER answer...


I didn't say that I have one of those 13L engines, what I have, or what I use.

I do know that all of the major HD engine makers from 13L thru 15L factory fill with 30w oils, recommend them, and I personally know many of the owners that have 500,000 or more miles on their engines using 30w oil in them with no evidence of a problem. Most of those oils have a minimum HTHS of 3.5.

But your arguments seem to be closely related to some that own these HD engines that feel that only a 40w should be used because of the work they do, yet the evidence doesn't support a 40w is needed. And I have seen a lot of UOA's on 10w30w oils that show shearing is far less than 0w40 and 5w40 oils over time and under stress.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I didn't say that I have one of those 13L engines, what I have, or what I use.

I do know that all of the major HD engine makers from 13L thru 15L factory fill with 30w oils, recommend them, and I personally know many of the owners that have 500,000 or more miles on their engines using 30w oil in them with no evidence of a problem. Most of those oils have a minimum HTHS of 3.5.

But your arguments seem to be closely related to some that own these HD engines that feel that only a 40w should be used because of the work they do, yet the evidence doesn't support a 40w is needed.


No, you keep inferring that because OTR engines, with their VAST design differences, and HTHS 3.5 minimum are applicable running ILSAC oils in (your term) "tonka toys" leads to no issues.

As to what my arguments seem "closely related to"...lead on, and show where in this thread that I even intimated that "only a 40" should be used...

I'll edit too, to match your edit...I agree, that a 3.6 HTHS 10W30 would probably be fine well in the OP's application.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Look, 500 horsepower to the wheels WITH a supercharger, dont even think about using a 30 weight. Anyone in this thread recommending a 5W30 weight (rolls eyes) has absolutely no knowledge of high horsepower applications.

Feel free to use 5W30 if you want a spun bearing.

Id start at Mobil 0W40 and go from there.

40 weight oils are not scary monsters to be afraid of.


Curiosity is getting the better of me. If a 30w oil seems to do quite well in a 13L turbocharged engine laying down 500 hp and 1850 lb of torque moving 80,000 lb of truck and load, nationwide, and racking up hundreds of thousands of failure free miles, why would it be such a terrible thing for the OP setup moving a Tonka Toy in comparison?

And there are a lot of dexos 5w30 oils around. The new dexos spec that is primarily going with 20w does not go into full effect till September and is design with the 2018 MY vehicles in mind. Since the OP's vehicle isn't in that category, one of the 30w dexos oils would work just fine.


We're talking about gas vs. diesel, and a massive difference in specific output and rpm.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Look, 500 horsepower to the wheels WITH a supercharger, dont even think about using a 30 weight. Anyone in this thread recommending a 5W30 weight (rolls eyes) has absolutely no knowledge of high horsepower applications.

Feel free to use 5W30 if you want a spun bearing.

Id start at Mobil 0W40 and go from there.

40 weight oils are not scary monsters to be afraid of.


Curiosity is getting the better of me. If a 30w oil seems to do quite well in a 13L turbocharged engine laying down 500 hp and 1850 lb of torque moving 80,000 lb of truck and load, nationwide, and racking up hundreds of thousands of failure free miles, why would it be such a terrible thing for the OP setup moving a Tonka Toy in comparison?

And there are a lot of dexos 5w30 oils around. The new dexos spec that is primarily going with 20w does not go into full effect till September and is design with the 2018 MY vehicles in mind. Since the OP's vehicle isn't in that category, one of the 30w dexos oils would work just fine.


We're talking about gas vs. diesel, and a massive difference in specific output and rpm.


Not to mention bearing size, crank and rod journal size....etc.
thumbsup2.gif
 
I hate to be the "thick oil guy", but everything I have seen in my business has shown me that when you start turning up the wick on a GM V8 of any generation, and beating the stink out of it, you need good HTHS to keep the wear metals down and the bearings in place.

It's worth noting that this engine is an engine with a supercharger added. Not a supercharged engine built as such as a clean-sheet design.

In my experience you can't simply look at these situations from a "running properly" scenario. What usually kills hot V8 engines is not an accumulation of wear under a constant, but that combined with the brown hitting the fan at the same time. One or repeated ugly moments where everything has to come together at maximum strength to hold on for dear life.

This is why a lot of "great formulas" sometimes fail under extreme stress. For me, this is why GM recommends a 15/50 for Corvettes being raced. I have no doubt that you could put 20 of them out on the track with regular Dexos spec and most of them would walk right off without a hitch. But there would be the odd failure in some. This is where the difference is made. For that odd combination of where everything is just a little too wrong at the same time.

Performance engines are not the time to find that perfect medium. Put up the stoutest stuff you can find every time.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

.....Performance engines are not the time to find that perfect medium. Put up the stoutest stuff you can find every time.

+1 Unless you have the funds for a new engine for that one time the oil is to thin/hot for the task you gave it.
One positive note, no one said run 0/20 because you will lose gas mileage with the thick stuff. LOL

ROD
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Sounds like a great rig that you have...makes me feel like Mr Puniverse with my "baby" Colorado.

There's always a bigger fish, despite the mods my truck will get roasted by many diesels in my area



Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Thetruck454
Now for the kicker, my truck is supercharged and puts around 500 horsepower to the wheels.


Does it still have the cylinder deactivation, multi-cylinder displacement ?
grin2.gif


The tune turns that EPA pleasing [censored] off lol. I have the hard parts still, haven't gone into the motor to remove them.Does the blower count as multi displacement lol


Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'll edit too, to match your edit...I agree, that a 3.6 HTHS 10W30 would probably be fine well in the OP's application.


Looks like Mobil 1 0w-40 is the easily obtainable consensus

Originally Posted By: rrounds
no one said run 0/20 because you will lose gas mileage with the thick stuff. LOL ROD


At least that is a unanimous recommendation lol
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Look, 500 horsepower to the wheels WITH a supercharger, dont even think about using a 30 weight. Anyone in this thread recommending a 5W30 weight (rolls eyes) has absolutely no knowledge of high horsepower applications.

Feel free to use 5W30 if you want a spun bearing.

Id start at Mobil 0W40 and go from there.

40 weight oils are not scary monsters to be afraid of.


Curiosity is getting the better of me. If a 30w oil seems to do quite well in a 13L turbocharged engine laying down 500 hp and 1850 lb of torque moving 80,000 lb of truck and load, nationwide, and racking up hundreds of thousands of failure free miles, why would it be such a terrible thing for the OP setup moving a Tonka Toy in comparison?

And there are a lot of dexos 5w30 oils around. The new dexos spec that is primarily going with 20w does not go into full effect till September and is design with the 2018 MY vehicles in mind. Since the OP's vehicle isn't in that category, one of the 30w dexos oils would work just fine.


We're talking about gas vs. diesel, and a massive difference in specific output and rpm.


Still haven't seen any concrete evidence that a 40w would be necessary. It has been shown in many situations that a 0w40 or 5w40 tends to shear down faster than something like a 10w30 under many high performance situations. it sure has been a regular topic here from time to time.

And it is highly doubtful that even one load of a 30w oil in that setup would grenade the engine. A UOA on it could tell if it was up to the task of protecting the engine. If nothing else, something like a 10w30 would have significantly lower level of VI, and in some cases, none. That can be a major benefit in a high performance situation.
 
I agree with your position SilverFusion, but what is wrong with a little added protection that a 10w40 synthetic SAE40 or 15w40 provides?
TT's engine size vs oil viscosity sounds like a form of small package syndrome to me.
 
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
I agree with your position SilverFusion, but what is wrong with a little added protection that a 10w40 synthetic SAE40 or 15w40 provides?
TT's engine size vs oil viscosity sounds like a form of small package syndrome to me.


Accept it and move on. My 17 is requiring 0w-20 year round.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker


Still haven't seen any concrete evidence that a 40w would be necessary. It has been shown in many situations that a 0w40 or 5w40 tends to shear down faster than something like a 10w30 under many high performance situations. it sure has been a regular topic here from time to time.

And it is highly doubtful that even one load of a 30w oil in that setup would grenade the engine. A UOA on it could tell if it was up to the task of protecting the engine. If nothing else, something like a 10w30 would have significantly lower level of VI, and in some cases, none. That can be a major benefit in a high performance situation.


You and I both know it depends on the oil. The numbers on the bottle actually don't mean much ... An ILSAC 5W-30 is nowhere near say Delo 15W-30, even both they say 30 on the bottle.

For this motor, I think he needs specific oils recommended. Not a range or a label. I would never say this engine would be badly served by say Red Line SAE 30. Or even Delo SAE 30 seeing as how both have no VII's to shear down to anything.

If he needs amulti-grade to get through seasonal issues, there might be some benefit to a 0W-40 that we all can guess will shear down to a 30 in 1,000 miles or so. Then he'll actually be where a lot of folks are suggesting he start
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

Still haven't seen any concrete evidence that a 40w would be necessary. It has been shown in many situations that a 0w40 or 5w40 tends to shear down faster than something like a 10w30 under many high performance situations. it sure has been a regular topic here from time to time.

And it is highly doubtful that even one load of a 30w oil in that setup would grenade the engine. A UOA on it could tell if it was up to the task of protecting the engine. If nothing else, something like a 10w30 would have significantly lower level of VI, and in some cases, none. That can be a major benefit in a high performance situation.


There is not and never will be any concrete evidence, aside from the experience of a tuner shop that builds and blows up similar combinations on a regular basis.

As I said before, engine failure due to inadequate lubrication is not always due to linear wear, because the conditions that kill a motor may not exist all of the time. A UOA isn't going to tell him if under a certain set of conditions that one of bearings is going to STB. With a performance engine, you also have to consider events well outside of the business as usual.

Coming back to the Corvettes; a Corvette running it's standard fill can put up 20 excellent UOA's and then go to the track and explode in minutes according to GM.

The writing is on the wall. GM says if you like to beat on a non-supercharged LS engine built for constant high-rpm duty, you need a 50. So what do you suppose happens when you take an LS that hasn't been built for that kind of duty, and then stick a blower on top nearly doubling that engine's horsepower?

Volvo Penta tried that "high HTHS synthetic-only SAE 30" bull, and a ton of their Chevy engines ate the fat one. It's not the answer for everything.
 
What do people think of amsoil signature in either 0w20, 0w30, or 0w40? For the truetrac diff I'v narrowed it down to either their SVG 75w90 or 75w110 so I wonder if their engine oil is worth it over the M1 0w40?
 
Could it be that in some cases (on this site) - "shear" has been fuel dilutions instead of ruptured polymer - I'm running 5w40
(not HDEO) in my 5w30 engine knowing it does dilute...
 
Can someone explain this to me, why is one classified as a 0w30 and one a 0w40? Am I right to assume the M1 is more consistent based off the higher VI? What other stats should I look at?

Castrol 0w30
100c: 12.18
40c: 73.21
VI: 164
HTHS: 3.5

M1 0w40
100c: 12.9
40c: 70.8
VI: 186
HTHS: 3.6
 
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