I normally use a ST16 w/Maxlife every 4k. I prefer not to go longer w/ the ST. Current load of Synpower w/ the Mann filter is schedualled for 6k or more.
Oil Filter Life
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I would have no problems running a ST filter to 5k miles because Bill in Utah has cut open enough ST filters with 5k on the clock and the filter has looked perfect. Its the 5k-10k duration that i am skeptical about. The most I'd be comfortable running a ST filter is 7.5k
I would run it 10-15K, if it were on my vehicle. I run a WIX on my two Subaru's for two oil change intervals...that's 15K miles. The insoluables on the UOA's have never been higher than 0.3, and at the end of the 15K, the insoluables have been posted to be 0.2.
I run a 3.38 Motorcraft FL820S in my 4.6 Modular, and run it for the equivalent of two OCI's (supposed to change the oil every 5K, but, I run it 10K), with insoluables at 0.2.
Worried about your overall oil quality? Leave the filter on longer and change the oil out more often. Really want to know what's going on...get a UOA on YOUR car...chances are you'll be surprised how much you are "overdoing it" with filter changes and oil changes...unless you have a problem with something in your system.
I run a 3.38 Motorcraft FL820S in my 4.6 Modular, and run it for the equivalent of two OCI's (supposed to change the oil every 5K, but, I run it 10K), with insoluables at 0.2.
Worried about your overall oil quality? Leave the filter on longer and change the oil out more often. Really want to know what's going on...get a UOA on YOUR car...chances are you'll be surprised how much you are "overdoing it" with filter changes and oil changes...unless you have a problem with something in your system.
Originally Posted By: deven
I would have no problems running a ST filter to 5k miles because Bill in Utah has cut open enough ST filters with 5k on the clock and the filter has looked perfect. Its the 5k-10k duration that i am skeptical about. The most I'd be comfortable running a ST filter is 7.5k
Is that solely because of the inexpensive price?
I would have no problems running a ST filter to 5k miles because Bill in Utah has cut open enough ST filters with 5k on the clock and the filter has looked perfect. Its the 5k-10k duration that i am skeptical about. The most I'd be comfortable running a ST filter is 7.5k
Is that solely because of the inexpensive price?
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
Originally Posted By: deven
I would have no problems running a ST filter to 5k miles because Bill in Utah has cut open enough ST filters with 5k on the clock and the filter has looked perfect. Its the 5k-10k duration that i am skeptical about. The most I'd be comfortable running a ST filter is 7.5k
Is that solely because of the inexpensive price?
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
Originally Posted By: deven
I would have no problems running a ST filter to 5k miles because Bill in Utah has cut open enough ST filters with 5k on the clock and the filter has looked perfect. Its the 5k-10k duration that i am skeptical about. The most I'd be comfortable running a ST filter is 7.5k
Is that solely because of the inexpensive price?
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
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Let's for the moment consider that all filtration media is basically the same except for micron level. Now we surely have advanced medias ..but I think that they're not necessarily anything special outside of how they provide better filtration ..at least that's how I'm looking at them in this pondering.
Much depends on the holding capacity. A looser filter can have a LONGER life in the same service as a finer filter. This is limited to the media's longevity. The service duty has a lot to do with it.
If you're using a cheaper filter (assumed lower level of filtration) in the same service as a finer filtering filter in long life service, then there is a good possibility that the cheaper filter can last longer. Now the nitrile ADBV may be dysfunctional from a consumer standpoint ..but
You'll just have much higher particle counts circulating around.
So, if you're doing 8k a year (assuming daily driver use)...more fuel, more moisture, higher combustion byproduct levels ..etc...swap out both at 6 months (oil and filter) or sooner.. and go as cheap as you please.
If you're doing 16k a year ..less fuel ..less moisture..lower combustion byproduct levels ..etc...swap the oil out at 6months and the filter at one year and go as expensive as you please.
This is generically speaking. There will be more and less severe situations and oils and filters that can got further distances due to unique construction.
Under the same service, generally speaking, any filter will make 10k. I'd say that under ideal (highway) conditions, all filters could reach 15k from a loading standpoint. The difference being the level of filtration. The ADBV will probably fail to be 100% effective if it's nitrile, but that isn't a typical OEM requirement. The ADBV typically has a time spec for holding. Otherwise, most of your filters are not "meeting or exceeding OEM spec's".
Much depends on the holding capacity. A looser filter can have a LONGER life in the same service as a finer filter. This is limited to the media's longevity. The service duty has a lot to do with it.
If you're using a cheaper filter (assumed lower level of filtration) in the same service as a finer filtering filter in long life service, then there is a good possibility that the cheaper filter can last longer. Now the nitrile ADBV may be dysfunctional from a consumer standpoint ..but
So, if you're doing 8k a year (assuming daily driver use)...more fuel, more moisture, higher combustion byproduct levels ..etc...swap out both at 6 months (oil and filter) or sooner.. and go as cheap as you please.
If you're doing 16k a year ..less fuel ..less moisture..lower combustion byproduct levels ..etc...swap the oil out at 6months and the filter at one year and go as expensive as you please.
This is generically speaking. There will be more and less severe situations and oils and filters that can got further distances due to unique construction.
Under the same service, generally speaking, any filter will make 10k. I'd say that under ideal (highway) conditions, all filters could reach 15k from a loading standpoint. The difference being the level of filtration. The ADBV will probably fail to be 100% effective if it's nitrile, but that isn't a typical OEM requirement. The ADBV typically has a time spec for holding. Otherwise, most of your filters are not "meeting or exceeding OEM spec's".
Originally Posted By: deven
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Sure... as long as it is covered by warranty when something goes wrong.
The recommended interval on my Honda Goldwing is 8,000 miles. Some bikes (especially some of the ones from Milwaukee) don't see that kind of mileage in 3 years. The neighborhood bar isn't nearly far enough away.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Sure... as long as it is covered by warranty when something goes wrong.
The recommended interval on my Honda Goldwing is 8,000 miles. Some bikes (especially some of the ones from Milwaukee) don't see that kind of mileage in 3 years. The neighborhood bar isn't nearly far enough away.
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
Originally Posted By: deven
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Honda also calls for 10k OCI's which not many follow. Pretty sure the filter would last 10k but its cheaper for me to change the filter at 5k and have peace of mind plus i dont believe the ADBV would be functional for 10k miles.
Originally Posted By: deven
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Honda also calls for 10k OCI's which not many follow. Pretty sure the filter would last 10k but its cheaper for me to change the filter at 5k and have peace of mind plus i dont believe the ADBV would be functional for 10k miles.
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
Originally Posted By: deven
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Honda also calls for 10k OCI's which not many follow. Pretty sure the filter would last 10k but its cheaper for me to change the filter at 5k and have peace of mind plus i dont believe the ADBV would be functional for 10k miles.
Look at these phrases in your message: "Pretty sure...", "...but its cheaper...", (When it obviously is more expensive to change more often), "...peace of mind...", "...i don't believe...".
Obviously, not a scientific approach you are following. Never let the facts get in the way of your feelings...right? The fact is that on Honda engines where the vehicle is operated in driving conditions calling for 10K OCI's, with every other OCI doing a filter change, the engine will outlast other components on the vehicle, with those other components causing the vehicle to be scrapped.
I have 4 vehicles where I've used UOA's to DOUBLE the manufacturer recommended OCI's, and the results are stellar. That means I'm going 4 times longer than you suggest, since you are suggesting half of what the manufacturer has deemed sufficient, with evidence of perfectly acceptable results....wear ratings and filtration quality as reflected by particulate counts being well below "average".
Your choice: science, or "feelings and habits". The scientific approach saves money and conserves resources.
Originally Posted By: Dyoel182
Originally Posted By: deven
No, its because its a paper filter and I wouldnt have the guts to run it out to 10k. I am pretty sure it would stand up well for 10k miles but i wouldnt want to take that risk especially when you look at the price point risk/benefit.
The the oil filter from Honda thats paper and they say to run it past 10k miles under warranty and you dont have the guts to run one half that?
Honda also calls for 10k OCI's which not many follow. Pretty sure the filter would last 10k but its cheaper for me to change the filter at 5k and have peace of mind plus i dont believe the ADBV would be functional for 10k miles.
Look at these phrases in your message: "Pretty sure...", "...but its cheaper...", (When it obviously is more expensive to change more often), "...peace of mind...", "...i don't believe...".
Obviously, not a scientific approach you are following. Never let the facts get in the way of your feelings...right? The fact is that on Honda engines where the vehicle is operated in driving conditions calling for 10K OCI's, with every other OCI doing a filter change, the engine will outlast other components on the vehicle, with those other components causing the vehicle to be scrapped.
I have 4 vehicles where I've used UOA's to DOUBLE the manufacturer recommended OCI's, and the results are stellar. That means I'm going 4 times longer than you suggest, since you are suggesting half of what the manufacturer has deemed sufficient, with evidence of perfectly acceptable results....wear ratings and filtration quality as reflected by particulate counts being well below "average".
Your choice: science, or "feelings and habits". The scientific approach saves money and conserves resources.
Originally Posted By: cmhj
I've yet to understand why people insist on running cheap filters, then get get concerned with durability and life.
Pay me now or pay me more later.
Pay me now and pay me later. It's been shown time and time again that expensive, "better filtering" filters don't increase engine life. Bob ran an interval with no oil filter and got one of his best UOA results.
Regular full flow filters stop birds and rocks. Bypass filters are about the only way to truly stop the ultra small wear metals.
I've yet to understand why people insist on running cheap filters, then get get concerned with durability and life.
Pay me now or pay me more later.
Pay me now and pay me later. It's been shown time and time again that expensive, "better filtering" filters don't increase engine life. Bob ran an interval with no oil filter and got one of his best UOA results.
Regular full flow filters stop birds and rocks. Bypass filters are about the only way to truly stop the ultra small wear metals.
omg. Audi oem Mann filters say "2 years/30,000km" right on the side. The guys that say they would only run a filter 3k or change them more than the oil....what are they basing that on? Are they cutting ANY of them open?
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Regular full flow filters stop birds and rocks. Bypass filters are about the only way to truly stop the ultra small wear metals.
And even those ultra small wear metals arent proven to actually be doing anything negative.
Regular full flow filters stop birds and rocks. Bypass filters are about the only way to truly stop the ultra small wear metals.
And even those ultra small wear metals arent proven to actually be doing anything negative.
I believe that all full-flow filters go into bypass during most cold starts. I believe this because years ago I had two ST-3614 filters that ruptured the media. These had the old "clicker type" bypass valves that IMO didn't work, causing the media to rupture. I've dissected several Ecore filters since then, and I did not find this problem. These ST-3614 filters were used as oversized filters in my Corolla with 5,000 mile OCIs.
If you have ever tried to drain cold oil out of a used filter, you can understand why I believe this.
I also agree with Drew that filters don't catch much of anything but big junk. If you really want to remove the abrasive particles from your oil, you need to use a bypass filter.
Changing your filter every other OCI probably would not hurt at all because the filter is unlikely to go into bypass mode when the oil is hot. It would take a fairly significant amount of blockage to make that happen, and after cutting open dozens of filters, I just don't see that happening.
If you read this Synthetic Oil Life Study, you will see that they kept the filter in for 12,000 miles with no apparent issues.
If you have ever tried to drain cold oil out of a used filter, you can understand why I believe this.
I also agree with Drew that filters don't catch much of anything but big junk. If you really want to remove the abrasive particles from your oil, you need to use a bypass filter.
Changing your filter every other OCI probably would not hurt at all because the filter is unlikely to go into bypass mode when the oil is hot. It would take a fairly significant amount of blockage to make that happen, and after cutting open dozens of filters, I just don't see that happening.
If you read this Synthetic Oil Life Study, you will see that they kept the filter in for 12,000 miles with no apparent issues.
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A filter may/can/might/maybe/could/has potential to reach bypass level every time your oil pump is in relief. It about the only time it can except due to loading. This would occur, more often than not, during cold starts.
Originally Posted By: PW01
This is just my opinion but, I wouldn't run one past 3000 miles.
The filters last well past 3k.
Here is a 6k filter; photo of 6k supertech
Another; 7k supertech filter
The filters will last as long as the recommended OCI is. (with ease)
Ok, only expensive filters for anything over 3k...
This is just my opinion but, I wouldn't run one past 3000 miles.
The filters last well past 3k.
Here is a 6k filter; photo of 6k supertech
Another; 7k supertech filter
The filters will last as long as the recommended OCI is. (with ease)
Ok, only expensive filters for anything over 3k...
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