New Mobil 1 5w30 ESP Formulation?

Jimmy_Russells said:
The same guy who said 0w oils were disallowed in newest BMW certs
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I don’t think he explicitly said this was true, he just noticed most of the oils that lost BMW approvals were 0w-xx. It could never have been true that 0w was disallowed by BMW explicitly because BMW continued to fill cars with BMW TPT 0w-30 API SP LL-01FE through this time period. I just used it in my M2C 6 months ago, produced well after the spec changes.

To be fair, he never claimed it was anything more than speculation and I was careful to call it a rumor in the post where I mentioned it.
 
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chris719 said:
I don’t think he explicitly said this was true, he just noticed most of the oils that lost BMW approvals were 0w-xx. It could never have been true that 0w was disallowed by BMW explicitly because BMW continued to fill cars with BMW TPT 0w-30 API SP LL-01FE through this time period. I just used it in my M2C 6 months ago, produced well after the spec changes.

To be fair, he never claimed it was anything more than speculation and I was careful to call it a rumor in the post where I mentioned it.
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The oils carrying LL01 and LL04 was (0w-xx)From 2018 until 2022 i think. He never said all bmw approvals, just was referring to bmw LL01 and LL04.
 
chris719 said:
Well, the rumor was that BMW approvals were lost due to unreasonable oxidation requirements. Removing the ester would accomplish that. Whether it makes the product better or not is another question.
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Oxidation isn't gauged on the absolute, IE, the oil isn't measured and then just condemned because the oxidation value is high. It's a relative value based on the difference between virgin and used; it's oxidation resistance. Pretty much all the 0W-40's lost LL-01 when this change was made, they appear to be getting it back now, so either BMW changed the requirements or the manufacturers didn't see LL-01 as a valuable enough approval to warrant reformulation and so they waited until they were doing a full product change-up to address it, IE the changeover to SP.
 
chris719 said:
Did I offend you somehow?
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No. You just make assumptions and present them as fact. You get some things right, and some wrong. It's a problem for folks who find your posts via a simple Google search and assume that they are all correct.
 
Rod Knock said:
No. You just make assumptions and present them as fact. You get some things right, and some wrong. It's a problem for folks who find your posts via a simple Google search and assume that they are all correct.
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I didn’t present much of anything as fact in this thread. In any case, it’s more productive and informative to all to address whatever is incorrect.
 
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edyvw said:
Yes, in 2018.
Tell me which 0W was approved in LL01 and LL04 until this year?
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BMW TPT 0w-30 LL-01FE. Assuming the only difference between FE and non-FE is HTHS. I believe there was also an LL04 version in Europe but not sure on the timing.
 
chris719 said:
BMW TPT 0w-30 LL-01FE. Assuming the only difference between FE and non-FE is HTHS. I believe there was also an LL04 version in Europe but not sure on the timing.
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It is different approval. LL01FE was never widely approved. Motul carries Specific 5W30. I think Liqui Moly has “meets” oil, but is not actually approved.
No 0W was approved since 2018. Actually, Mobil1 with previous, SN version dropped LL01 in 2015 knowing changes were coming.
Also, Mobil1 didn’t have any BMW approval in any grade until SP versions.
 
edyvw said:
It is different approval. LL01FE was never widely approved. Motul carries Specific 5W30. I think Liqui Moly has “meets” oil, but is not actually approved.
No 0W was approved since 2018. Actually, Mobil1 with previous, SN version dropped LL01 in 2015 knowing changes were coming.
Also, Mobil1 didn’t have any BMW approval in any grade until SP versions.
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I guess I have a hard time believing that LL01 and LL01FE deviate significantly beyond HTHS and that FE would be more permissive.
 
chris719 said:
I guess I have a hard time believing that LL01 and LL01FE deviate significantly beyond HTHS and that FE would be more permissive.
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I really don't know. BMW is not as forthcoming with approvals as let's say MB.
But, even in LL01FE, only BMW TPT is available in 0W30 grade that is actually approved (obviously).
I think BMW actually changed approvals considering Castrol Edge 0W30 is having it and it does not seem they changed the formulation.
Again, this is speculation. Just to say, as some need some time to understand.
 
This somehow reminds me of the change Pennzoil made to Ultra when it went from the loved SM version to SN. Many of us bailed and didn't look back.
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4WD said:
wonder how many formula changes Tig’s oil went through in 4+ decades - still did 10k OCI’s through all of them …
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They all go through changes, however there have been changes that cheapened a product, and our resident experts are quick to pick up on them. Or to decode info that can alert us to those changes. When they went to the 5 quart jugs and the prices came down that might have been a clue something was up. Just a hunch. A good Bitog buddy of mine and I recently discussed this over the weekend. As time goes by we'll know for sure. I'm hoping that isn't the case.
 
demarpaint said:
They all go through changes, however there have been changes that cheapened a product, and our resident experts are quick to pick up on them. Or to decode info that can alert us to those changes. When they went to the 5 quart jugs and the prices came down that might have been a clue something was up. Just a hunch. A good Bitog buddy of mine and I recently discussed this over the weekend. As time goes by we'll know for sure. I'm hoping that isn't the case.
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And by the time you think you figured something out - it will change again. They have latitude built in … and actually have to wade through several approvals …
 
edyvw said:
I really don't know. BMW is not as forthcoming with approvals as let's say MB.
But, even in LL01FE, only BMW TPT is available in 0W30 grade that is actually approved (obviously).
I think BMW actually changed approvals considering Castrol Edge 0W30 is having it and it does not seem they changed the formulation.
Again, this is speculation. Just to say, as some need some time to understand
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Castrol edge 0w30 has also BMW Longlife-19..i really cant find any info about this spec. does the co- existence of bmw ll04 and BMW Longlife-19 tell us , that most possibly bmw changed approvals? so they are backed down with mobil 1 esp formula ? and the mobil 1 esp 5-30 is the same formula as the old one? and has the old oxidation limits that BMW did't approved if that was the case? just simple guessing.just saying...
 
svenson said:
Castrol edge 0w30 has also BMW Longlife-19..i really cant find any info about this spec. does the co- existence of bmw ll04 and BMW Longlife-19 tell us , that most possibly bmw changed approvals? so they are backed down with mobil 1 esp formula ? and the mobil 1 esp 5-30 is the same formula as the old one? and has the old oxidation limits that BMW did't approved if that was the case? just simple guessing.just saying...
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Nah, I think it is something different. It is higher HTHS oil but not sure exactly what as there is very few info. As far as I remember, Shell Helix has it too.
 
IMO, many on here get it backwards. They rate motor oils by ingredients visible in MSDS or VOA vs the certifications and/or approvals.

I believe someone here said...

"it's obvious the product meets all the approvals on the bottle, but most people here are interested in how much an oil may exceed a given specification...."

How do we know an oil with PAO or Moly for instance "exceeds" the approvals? How do we know what criteria is used to quantify "exceeds?"

Same goes for Pennzoil products. They maintained approvals yet people here jumped off the bandwagon because of the loss of Moly; Now Valvoline is the new Moly darling. All the while, the same approvals are being met.

None of this is to say Moly, PAO or Esters are a bad thing. Of course not. It's to point out we are all guessing as to what new technologies are being used in these formulations that still maintain approvals. Who cares that mfcrs use less expensive means to achieve this, we all try to save $. EHC Grp II base prove this. Who, 15 years ago, could guess a GrpII would rival a GrpIII in tests.
 
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