Moving up to 5w30. How thick is too thick?

[farrarfan1]

Originally Posted by dubber09
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
What about a 10W30 over a 5W30?

Why would some want to go thinner at operation temperature?


huh? I'm confused..

Vanilla M1 is a perfect example, KV at 100C for 5W-30 is 11.1, while the 10W-30 is 10.4.

 

[SteveG4]

Originally Posted by Gebo
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Any 5W-30 will work fine ... even if it's on the "thicker" side of a 30 weight.

+1

+2

+3

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Originally Posted by tbm5690
On a similar note, any issues with running a thicker oil with VTEC being that it's activated based on pressure? I've got a DI J35, minimal to no fuel dilution issues for me that I'm aware of (the NA units seem to be fine) but I'm also curious about going to a 30 and more wondering if VTEC will be effected.


Negative, if you read the euro owner's manual, they prefer 5/30 5/40

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
My Accord specs up to a 15W40 in Australia.

Same with the UAE

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
What about a 10W30 over a 5W30?

Why would some want to go thinner at operation temperature?


I keep reading about fuel dilution. Won't a 10W be a stronger oil per se via thicker base oil over a 0w and 5W?


In Texas I'd have no issue using 10w30 in place of 5w30.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by farrarfan1
Originally Posted by dubber09
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
What about a 10W30 over a 5W30?
Why would some want to go thinner at operation temperature?
huh? I'm confused..
Vanilla M1 is a perfect example, KV at 100C for 5W-30 is 11.1, while the 10W-30 is 10.4.

>> KV100 has no significance. span>

Only the base-oil viscosity and HTHS matter. KV100 does not matter. M1 10W-30 has a lot thicker base oil than M1 5W-30. The only reason M1 5W-30 has a higher KV100 is because it has a higher VII content, almost twice that of M1 10W-30.

As a general rule, you want the lowest KV100 for a given HTHS for a thicker base oil, which results in less engine wear. M1 10W-30 would result in less engine wear than M1 5W-30 because it has a thicker base oil.

M1 10W-30 would also exhibit only about half the permanent shear (permanent viscosity loss) M1 5W-30 exhibits because it has only about half the VII content of M1 5W-30.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by pbm
In Texas I'd have no issue using 10w30 in place of 5w30.


Absolutely!

I've been running 10W30 in my girlfriend's 5W30 spec'd Mustang ever since we got it

 

[ARB1977]

I was glad we ditched our 18 1.5LT CRV. Don't get me wrong it was an awesome suv. Coming from an 08 CRV we had. Right at the 20K mark when I did the oil change I got 1.5 qrts of fuel add to the oil in 6K oci. My wife wanted some bigger so she got a 19 Pilot.

 

[farrarfan1]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

>> KV100 has no significance. span>

Only the base-oil viscosity and HTHS matter. KV100 does not matter. M1 10W-30 has a lot thicker base oil than M1 5W-30. The only reason M1 5W-30 has a higher KV100 is because it has a higher VII content, almost twice that of M1 10W-30.

As a general rule, you want the lowest KV100 for a given HTHS for a thicker base oil, which results in less engine wear. M1 10W-30 would result in less engine wear than M1 5W-30 because it has a thicker base oil.

M1 10W-30 would also exhibit only about half the permanent shear (permanent viscosity loss) M1 5W-30 exhibits because it has only about half the VII content of M1 5W-30.

The discussion was about using a "thicker" 5W-30 to combat the viscosity lowering effect of the fuel dilution that the Honda 1.5 turbo is known for and 10W-30 was suggested. A couple of us mentioned that in some product lines the 5W-30 is a little thicker than the 10W-30, and I used M1 as an example. No one was debating which one provides the best wear protection, I think most would agree that the 10W-30 would probably win that contest. So the question is, which is better for countering fuel dilution, a 5W-30 with a viscosity of 11.1 or a 10W-30 at 10.4 cSt? The other question I would have is whether it's even a good idea in the first place to use something other than the recommended 0W-20?

I'm interested in this because I'm looking hard at the 2020 CR-V as a replacement for our HR-V but I can't find any solid evidence that the fixes Honda has tried the last couple of years has actually worked.

 

[Silver]

Originally Posted by farrarfan1


The discussion was about using a "thicker" 5W-30 to combat the viscosity lowering effect of the fuel dilution that the Honda 1.5 turbo is known for and 10W-30 was suggested. A couple of us mentioned that in some product lines the 5W-30 is a little thicker than the 10W-30, and I used M1 as an example. No one was debating which one provides the best wear protection, I think most would agree that the 10W-30 would probably win that contest. So the question is, which is better for countering fuel dilution, a 5W-30 with a viscosity of 11.1 or a 10W-30 at 10.4 cSt? The other question I would have is whether it's even a good idea in the first place to use something other than the recommended 0W-20?

I'm interested in this because I'm looking hard at the 2020 CR-V as a replacement for our HR-V but I can't find any solid evidence that the fixes Honda has tried the last couple of years has actually worked.


Wait, I'm assuming the original thought of needing a thicker oil was rooted in the need to maintain proper protection, which leads us back to the claim that HTHS and base oil viscosity are more important than finished product KV100 viscosity.

 

[redhat]

I see a lot of discussion here around this engine having bad fuel dilution or being a problem for Honda, but lets just clarify one thing. Are we talking about the 1.5T or the 2.0T. Because there hasn't been much differentiation in the posts.

The 1.5T is known for fuel dilution and is a Honda L series.
The 2.0T is a Honda K-series. Is this one also known for issues?

I looked for a while internationally for an international oil recommendation for this same engine (2.0T Accord engine) and could not find a use of this engine outside of the US. Perhaps the Type-R Civic, but I do know that is somewhat different.

 

[farrarfan1]

Originally Posted by Silver


Wait, I'm assuming the original thought of needing a thicker oil was rooted in the need to maintain proper protection, which leads us back to the claim that HTHS and base oil viscosity are more important than finished product KV100 viscosity.


Since the op referred to his engine as "a fuel diluting/shearing machine" I assumed he was addressing both issues and 10W-30 was specifically recommended to fight fuel dilution.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by farrarfan1
Originally Posted by Gokhan

>> KV100 has no significance. span>

Only the base-oil viscosity and HTHS matter. KV100 does not matter. M1 10W-30 has a lot thicker base oil than M1 5W-30. The only reason M1 5W-30 has a higher KV100 is because it has a higher VII content, almost twice that of M1 10W-30.

As a general rule, you want the lowest KV100 for a given HTHS for a thicker base oil, which results in less engine wear. M1 10W-30 would result in less engine wear than M1 5W-30 because it has a thicker base oil.

M1 10W-30 would also exhibit only about half the permanent shear (permanent viscosity loss) M1 5W-30 exhibits because it has only about half the VII content of M1 5W-30.
The discussion was about using a "thicker" 5W-30 to combat the viscosity lowering effect of the fuel dilution that the Honda 1.5 turbo is known for and 10W-30 was suggested. A couple of us mentioned that in some product lines the 5W-30 is a little thicker than the 10W-30, and I used M1 as an example. No one was debating which one provides the best wear protection, I think most would agree that the 10W-30 would probably win that contest. So the question is, which is better for countering fuel dilution, a 5W-30 with a viscosity of 11.1 or a 10W-30 at 10.4 cSt? The other question I would have is whether it's even a good idea in the first place to use something other than the recommended 0W-20?

I'm interested in this because I'm looking hard at the 2020 CR-V as a replacement for our HR-V but I can't find any solid evidence that the fixes Honda has tried the last couple of years has actually worked.

It doesn't matter. Engine oil is a non-Newtonian fluid, which means its viscosity changes with the shear rate.

KV100 is the low-shear viscosity. There are no low-shear parts in the engine, except for the leak paths. For everything else either HTHS (high-shear with partial VII shear) or HTFS (full-shear (base-oil + add-pack viscosity) with full VII shear)) applies. Note that shear in this context refers to temporary shear, not permanent viscosity loss.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by farrarfan1
Originally Posted by Gokhan

>> KV100 has no significance. span>

Only the base-oil viscosity and HTHS matter. KV100 does not matter. M1 10W-30 has a lot thicker base oil than M1 5W-30. The only reason M1 5W-30 has a higher KV100 is because it has a higher VII content, almost twice that of M1 10W-30.

As a general rule, you want the lowest KV100 for a given HTHS for a thicker base oil, which results in less engine wear. M1 10W-30 would result in less engine wear than M1 5W-30 because it has a thicker base oil.

M1 10W-30 would also exhibit only about half the permanent shear (permanent viscosity loss) M1 5W-30 exhibits because it has only about half the VII content of M1 5W-30.
The discussion was about using a "thicker" 5W-30 to combat the viscosity lowering effect of the fuel dilution that the Honda 1.5 turbo is known for and 10W-30 was suggested. A couple of us mentioned that in some product lines the 5W-30 is a little thicker than the 10W-30, and I used M1 as an example. No one was debating which one provides the best wear protection, I think most would agree that the 10W-30 would probably win that contest. So the question is, which is better for countering fuel dilution, a 5W-30 with a viscosity of 11.1 or a 10W-30 at 10.4 cSt? The other question I would have is whether it's even a good idea in the first place to use something other than the recommended 0W-20?

I'm interested in this because I'm looking hard at the 2020 CR-V as a replacement for our HR-V but I can't find any solid evidence that the fixes Honda has tried the last couple of years has actually worked.

It doesn't matter. Engine oil is a non-Newtonian fluid, which means its viscosity changes with the shear rate.

KV100 is the low-shear viscosity. There are no low-shear parts in the engine, except for the leak paths. For everything else either HTHS (high-shear with partial VII shear) or HTFS (full-shear (base-oil + add-pack viscosity) with full VII shear)) applies. Note that shear in this context refers to temporary shear, not permanent viscosity loss.


So how does the same amount of fuel dilution affect KV100, HTHS and HTFS when comparing between a 0W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 oil?

Which oil would be best to use in an engine known for lots of fuel dilution?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
So how does the same amount of fuel dilution affect KV100, HTHS and HTFS when comparing between a 0W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 oil?

Which oil would be best to use in an engine known for lots of fuel dilution?

The fuel dilutes the base oil (plus + add pack). HTFS = base-oil + add-pack viscosity. The same proportion of fuel dilution would reduce HTFS by about the same proportion, regardless of the viscosity.

HTHS is proportional to HTFS; so, that would be reduced by the same proportion, too.

KV100 is also proportional to HTFS and HTHS; so, that would also be reduced by the same proportion.

The choice depends on the actual oil. Again, you look at HTFS and HTHS. A 10W-30 usually has a thicker base oil than a 5W-30.

 

[BTLew81]

Originally Posted by redhat
I see a lot of discussion here around this engine having bad fuel dilution or being a problem for Honda, but lets just clarify one thing. Are we talking about the 1.5T or the 2.0T. Because there hasn't been much differentiation in the posts.

The 1.5T is known for fuel dilution and is a Honda L series.
The 2.0T is a Honda K-series. Is this one also known for issues?

I looked for a while internationally for an international oil recommendation for this same engine (2.0T Accord engine) and could not find a use of this engine outside of the US. Perhaps the Type-R Civic, but I do know that is somewhat different.



My initial post was about my car with the 2.0t. It doesn't seem as hard on the oil as the 1.5t, but not great either.