Mobil 1 and dexos1 G2

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since the M1 5W-20 EP is one of the only 'on the shelf at Wal Mart' D1G2 EP oils in that viscosity (Castrol, WHERE'S YOUR 'gold bottle' D1G2 5W-20 EP?!), HOW do I find out it's NOACK, and a 'best guess' at base stock content?
(Since EVERYONE ONLY ever mentions M1 0W-20 EP as having a huge PAO base stock content percentage, but NEVER even a hint at what the 5W-20 is made out of, besides a good deal of Visom.)

This is going into a Ford EcoBoost 1.6 TDI for a winter OCI (so low LSPI, and intake valve deposits ARE of a 'concern'

), and I am looking for the closest D1G2 5W-20 to the crazy good; 5.8 NOACK, 12 starting TBN, but still low SA, Amsoil 5W-20 Sig Series as I can get, without spending 2-3 times as much as a 'Wal Mart' oil (even with a short term, "Preferred Customer" discount on the Sig Series), and still having some decent fuel dilution resistance.
HOW exactly, does Amsoil beat D1G2 low SA specs while still yielding a 12.0 TBN?!?

BTW; For summer OCIs I use the Ravenol DXG 5W-30.

The NOACK myth for GDI has been debunked. It's the PCV oil mist, not oil vapor, that causes intake-valve deposits. Therefore, NOACK has no effect.

VOA TBN doesn't agree with the Amsoil TBN claim:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4555019/Amsoil_SS_0w20_new_formulation

From MSDS, assuming the base oil is about 75% of the oil:

M1 EP 5W-20 base oil: 30% PAO
M1 EP 0W-20 base oil: 90% PAO

Therefore, if you want PAO, M1 EP 0W-20 is what you want.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since the M1 5W-20 EP is one of the only 'on the shelf at Wal Mart' D1G2 EP oils in that viscosity (Castrol, WHERE'S YOUR 'gold bottle' D1G2 5W-20 EP?!), HOW do I find out it's NOACK, and a 'best guess' at base stock content?
(Since EVERYONE ONLY ever mentions M1 0W-20 EP as having a huge PAO base stock content percentage, but NEVER even a hint at what the 5W-20 is made out of, besides a good deal of Visom.)

This is going into a Ford EcoBoost 1.6 TDI for a winter OCI (so low LSPI, and intake valve deposits ARE of a 'concern'

), and I am looking for the closest D1G2 5W-20 to the crazy good; 5.8 NOACK, 12 starting TBN, but still low SA, Amsoil 5W-20 Sig Series as I can get, without spending 2-3 times as much as a 'Wal Mart' oil (even with a short term, "Preferred Customer" discount on the Sig Series), and still having some decent fuel dilution resistance.
HOW exactly, does Amsoil beat D1G2 low SA specs while still yielding a 12.0 TBN?!?

BTW; For summer OCIs I use the Ravenol DXG 5W-30.



Even after editing your rant still makes no sense. Use the specified oil from Ford and your engine will have about the same probability of having an lubericant related failure as me falling out my bed tonight.

 

[buster]

The Noack of Mobil 1 EP per XOM email:

"The volatility for those products are as followed: Mobil 1 EP 0W-20: 10.1 mass % loss, and Mobil 1 EP 5W-30: 9.0 mass % loss. We hope this helps! Thank you for reaching out."

Amsoil's SA is higher than .8 and likely over 1.0.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
Since the M1 5W-20 EP is one of the only 'on the shelf at Wal Mart' D1G2 EP oils in that viscosity (Castrol, WHERE'S YOUR 'gold bottle' D1G2 5W-20 EP?!), HOW do I find out it's NOACK, and a 'best guess' at base stock content?
(Since EVERYONE ONLY ever mentions M1 0W-20 EP as having a huge PAO base stock content percentage, but NEVER even a hint at what the 5W-20 is made out of, besides a good deal of Visom.)

This is going into a Ford EcoBoost 1.6 TDI for a winter OCI (so low LSPI, and intake valve deposits ARE of a 'concern'

), and I am looking for the closest D1G2 5W-20 to the crazy good; 5.8 NOACK, 12 starting TBN, but still low SA, Amsoil 5W-20 Sig Series as I can get, without spending 2-3 times as much as a 'Wal Mart' oil (even with a short term, "Preferred Customer" discount on the Sig Series), and still having some decent fuel dilution resistance.
HOW exactly, does Amsoil beat D1G2 low SA specs while still yielding a 12.0 TBN?!?

BTW; For summer OCIs I use the Ravenol DXG 5W-30.

Amsoil says on their own site that SS products don't meet d1G2 SA specs...they pass the LSPI and timing chain wear specs, but they are not true d1G2 oils.

 

[buster]

It's likely due to the higher SA requirments of d1G2.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by buster
The Noack of Mobil 1 EP per XOM email:

"The volatility for those products are as followed: Mobil 1 EP 0W-20: 10.1 mass % loss, and Mobil 1 EP 5W-30: 9.0 mass % loss. We hope this helps! Thank you for reaching out."

Amsoil's SA is higher than .8 and likely over 1.0.

PQIA test shows M1 AFE 0W-20 to be 10.1%. I would expect M1 EP 0W-20 to be lower than 10.1%, as it has a lot more PAO, but it may have a thinner base oil than M1 AFE 0W-20, which would explain this.

Also, regarding their comments on LSPI, the cause of LSPI (high calcium, not high ash) wasn't known until mid-2010's according to the literature. Therefore, their inclusion of magnesium in 2010 did reduce ash; however, it was by luck that it worked with LSPI since it also reduced calcium.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by buster
The Noack of Mobil 1 EP per XOM email:
"The volatility for those products are as followed: Mobil 1 EP 0W-20: 10.1 mass % loss, and Mobil 1 EP 5W-30: 9.0 mass % loss. We hope this helps! Thank you for reaching out."
Amsoil's SA is higher than .8 and likely over 1.0.


That M1 5W30 EP Noack result matches what the Russian Oil Club reported a few years ago.
The PQIA has M1 5W30 AP at 8.5% Noack loss.
IIRC Amsoil SS 5W30 is listed at just above 1.2% SA, but check me on that if you really need to know! I believe the d1G2 upper limit for SA is 1.0%.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
The PQIA has M1 5W30 AP at 8.5% Noack loss.

Not because of a better base oil (more PAO or GTL) but because of a thicker base oil (higher CCS) though.

Both the MSDS and combined CCS x NOACK (what I call BOQI) show that M1 AP 5W-30 base oil is inferior to (has less GTL or PAO than) that of M1 5W-30. Other M1 AP viscosities are better.

Code
BOQI CCS NOACK Oil



70.9 5,033 5.6 M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 (Oil-Club Russia)

62.8 3,539 9.0 M1 EP 5W-30 (Oil-Club Russia)

50.3 3,937 10.1 M1 5W-30 (PQIA)

45.5 5,175 8.5 M1 AP 5W-30 (PQIA)

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
The PQIA has M1 5W30 AP at 8.5% Noack loss.

Not because of a better base oil (more PAO or GTL) but because of a thicker base oil (higher CCS) though.

Both the MSDS and combined CCS x NOACK (what I call BOQI) show that M1 AP 5W-30 base oil is inferior to (has less GTL or PAO than) that of M1 5W-30. Other M1 AP viscosities are better.

Code
BOQI CCS NOACK Oil



70.9 5,033 5.6 M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 (Oil-Club Russia)

62.8 3,539 9.0 M1 EP 5W-30 (Oil-Club Russia)

50.3 3,937 10.1 M1 (vanilla) 5W-30 (PQIA)

45.5 5,175 8.5 M1 AP 5W-30 (PQIA)

Note that Mobil 1 has been changing formulations, increasing the GTL content and/or decreasing the PAO content in some oils. M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 tested by Oil-Club Russia was purchased in 2012. It has truly impressive specs -- its BOQI is only second to the old, long-discontinued, PAO-based Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by buster
The Noack of Mobil 1 EP per XOM email:

"The volatility for those products are as followed: Mobil 1 EP 0W-20: 10.1 mass % loss, and Mobil 1 EP 5W-30: 9.0 mass % loss. We hope this helps! Thank you for reaching out."

Amsoil's SA is higher than .8 and likely over 1.0.



Good information to get here... Mobil 1 EP is a great oil. And it sells really, really well..

 

[dailydriver]

Sorry if asking a question on here is considered "ranting".

See, THIS is exactly why I do not come onto this site with any frequency at all anymore.

I thought that the whole reason for this place was the minutiae/OCD discussions of oil tech, etc., since who the **** needs it if not for that, and if the pat answer is always "just use whatever you're manufacturer specs, and leave it at that".

To all of those who answered without having to resort to disparagement, THANK YOU.

 

[dailydriver]

Thank you!

9.0 is not too bad for TBN either.

Can we take for granted that ALL of the Sig Series viscosities have roughly that same 9.0 starting TBN, given how Amsoil sets them at 12.5 across the board on their PDS?

I have a catch can/air-oil separator installed on this car, so I guess there is not much more that can be done to prevent intake valve deposits, if NOACK means nothing at all? (Save for frequent 'Italian tune-ups', using top tier only, or adding on a (tuned in) piggyback port injection system, and/or a water-methanol injection system.

)

Has it been established that NOACK has NO bearing whatsoever on LSPI frequency, and that is completely due to ONLY calcium and other SA additive levels?

THANK YOU for the approximate M1 EP PAO content percentages.