Mobil 1 and dexos1 G2

[StevieC]

XOM has always produced quality lubricants and I was a user in the past. They are also a huge player and so they need to move fast to keep current and ahead of the trends because they stand to loose a lot if they don't. I wouldn't hesitate to use their fluids.

I agree a lot of formulations might look the same given what we see on PQIA and VOA's but there is more too that as MolaKule mentioned in other threads that we just can't see. Only an expensive analysis upwards of $1300 would show the true formulation which all play a role in the overall oils performance.

Now that is where real world can stand in. There is lots of vehicles running on XOM products and all see long lives and even a few out there that have seen record miles as well. This all speaks well for their formulations being where they need to be but economical at the same time.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by bbhero
Again... Is it on a PDS anywhere?? Is on a spec sheet of any sort anywhere out for public observation/reading?? Don't think so.. but could be wrong.

Also if they had figured that all out then why not make advertising touting that ability?? Did that ever happen??

"Hey if you run Mobil 1 and you have a GDI motor it will help stop low speed pre ignition" etc etc... That would have been a good way to help promote their own product. Did they ever do that?? It would interesting to find out if they ever did..


It was apparent by the UOA's and VOA's and YES the PDS which showed a new SA of .8.

4. Mobil 1 motor oils are so advanced that they have met the API SN Plus performance standard since 2010.
Many Mobil 1 motor oils already meet the API SN Plus performance standard, making these full synthetic oils more than seven years ahead of their time for providing protection against LSPI.



Does Mobil 1 themselves.... Ever point this OUT????

Did they ever say... Hey guess what boys and girls... Our stuff helps do this and this and this???

Yeah that is what I am looking for...

Direct from them. Not anything else.

It's looking more and more like the REAL answer here is a big NO...

They, THEMSELVES, never at any one time put out a truly public statement or document stating ANYTHING about how great it was that they had truly figured out what LSPI was and that by their changes in additives... It would help combat that...

Produce that... Something tells me that is not there and never was... That they only happened to accidentally run into a solution there... It really wasn't planned...

Because if it was.... They would have stated so in a public way either in advertising, PDS or another type of published study....

Again... Maybe they did... But no one has found it yet....

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Produce that... Something tells me that is not there and never was... That they only happened to accidentally run into a solution there... It really wasn't planned...

It's completely feasible, and in fact, probably likely, that it was just a happy accident. Remember, after SM/GF-4 was rolled out, we saw starting TBN values drop. Mobil 1 has had their mileage warranty for a fairly long time. They had a reason to keep those TBN values up. We also saw this happen with HDEOs, particularly the top end E7, E9 synthetics.

Mobil was trying to limit SA in Mobil 1 (just like they were with Delvac 1) while keeping starting TBN at an acceptable level. Magnesium based packages help this. If you want an oil with a starting TBN of 11 or 12 and keep SA at 1.0 or less (oils with both E7 and E9 call for both a higher starting TBN and a limited SA), a magnesium package is useful. Formulators here have confirmed this.

A3/B4 oils didn't have the same SA concerns.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by bbhero
Again... Is it on a PDS anywhere?? Is on a spec sheet of any sort anywhere out for public observation/reading?? Don't think so.. but could be wrong.

Also if they had figured that all out then why not make advertising touting that ability?? Did that ever happen??

"Hey if you run Mobil 1 and you have a GDI motor it will help stop low speed pre ignition" etc etc... That would have been a good way to help promote their own product. Did they ever do that?? It would interesting to find out if they ever did..


It was apparent by the UOA's and VOA's and YES the PDS which showed a new SA of .8.

4. Mobil 1 motor oils are so advanced that they have met the API SN Plus performance standard since 2010.
Many Mobil 1 motor oils already meet the API SN Plus performance standard, making these full synthetic oils more than seven years ahead of their time for providing protection against LSPI.



Does Mobil 1 themselves.... Ever point this OUT????

Did they ever say... Hey guess what boys and girls... Our stuff helps do this and this and this???

Yeah that is what I am looking for...

Direct from them. Not anything else.

It's looking more and more like the REAL answer here is a big NO...

They, THEMSELVES, never at any one time put out a truly public statement or document stating ANYTHING about how great it was that they had truly figured out what LSPI was and that by their changes in additives... It would help combat that...

Produce that... Something tells me that is not there and never was... That they only happened to accidentally run into a solution there... It really wasn't planned...

Because if it was.... They would have stated so in a public way either in advertising, PDS or another type of published study....

Again... Maybe they did... But no one has found it yet....


Yes they did, I just showed you their response. So the next question is why didn't they say that in 2010? Probably because the testing wasn't finalized across the industry. Despite that, they told me in an email in 2012 (posted above) why they moved to Ca/Mg. And clearly they saw before the others that Ca was the main culprit, hence the move to Ca/Mg combination we now see in all formulations.

So 7 years later, when Amsoil drops their 3,600 ppm of Ca and Valvoline comes out with Modern Engine, ask yourself who is the real industry leader? I get the hate of big oil and XOM but give credit where it's due.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah that makes sense...

It likely was a good timing happenstance... Or accident that worked out in their favor...

Hey... Can't argue with their performance... It is always very, very strong and great.

Don't get me wrong... Mobil 1 makes great great oils... They are doggone good.

Hey.... Even Mobil Super is quite good

Look what PSD 2015 did with Mobil Super.. Ran it for 12-15k miles.... And it did has good as Pennzoil Ultra..

That's impressive.

Also... That is part of the reason I have it in my car has I type this

And... For whatever reason... Mobil Super runs really quiet in my VQ motor. One of the best in fact. I'm super happy that I got 8 5 qt containers for $18. That's a whale of a deal.

 

[bbhero]

Ahh hey hoss...


UOAs and VOAs and just a numerical change on a PDS doesn't qualify has anything real or official statements...

It doesn't.

A real official statement or advertising, or wording/language on a PDS stating... "Hey we found a additive change helped greatly reduced LSPI"... That's something real and meaningful. And done in a public way is a big deal..

Just like the following...

Say I come up with a probiotic that can be administered to someone receiving IV antibiotics.. and this probiotic helps maintain the body's natural Flora just enough to prevent C-diff... Which is very, very common in people who received antibiotics IV for a decent period of time .


Do you think if I had found that out... And had enough substantial evidence/studies to back that up.... I would not just out with that and advertise that or put that on my products label?? Or in a information packet about it??

Ahh heck yeah I would.... It would sell the product immensely!!! Preventing C-diff is a HUGE benefit to those people who are on IV antibiotics... and trust me.. it would be a game changer for many.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by bbhero
It likely was a good timing happenstance... Or accident that worked out in their favor...

Hey... Can't argue with their performance... It is always very, very strong and great.

Don't get me wrong... Mobil 1 makes great great oils... They are doggone good.

Of course, it's great it worked out that way. Being ahead of the curve on any issues is always nice, accidental or otherwise. They can pat themselves on the back retrospectively all they want, but that doesn't mean I have to believe them. They went to magnesium in HDEOs for a reason, and it wasn't LSPI. They didn't jump to reformulate A3/B4 oils, where additive levels of various sorts weren't the concern they were for ILSAC rated lubes or E7, E9 lubes.

 

[2000Trooper]

Originally Posted by ABomb369
Originally Posted by 71Chevyguy
Makes me wonder if the people with problematic engines such as the GM 3.6 were using Mobil 1? Because there are some people that never had an issue at all out of those, even the bad years.


I have been running plain vanilla M1 5W-30 for the majority in our 2011 Acadia with the 3.6 DI. Eight years later and not one issue so far with the engine but I keep the OCIs at around 5K due to fuel dilution and wear metal rates that seem to get much worse per 1k miles past that point. The only bad run I really had was with one run of Castrol EP which had thickened up to a 12.4 cST in the UOA at just 5800 mile OCI. Went back to M1 which did drop to a low 30 grade but did not thicken or oxidize like the Castrol did. Could have just been that bach of Castrol but it was enough to not run it again. PP and VSP also drop viscosity badly into the 20 grade range so again stuck with M1 for the most part. Also M1 also had the lowest wear metal showing in all UOAs done .

Actually not one issue with the Acadia at all which, knock on wood, is amazing as these don't seem to have the best track record according to the Acadia forums. We haven't had any major mechanical issues with our 04 Grand Prix either. Just regular maintenance and wear and tear items. I just seem to be an odd ball when it comes to GM vehicles and not having any major issues with them. In fact, I have had the best luck with them out of all cars I have owned.

Honestly most of the engine issues we see are due to oil. Most people seem to go by the oil life percentage and go down to 0% and some and then bring it in. There was initially an issue with how the oil life was calculated so timing chains would wear out. Going with a 5k OCI is probably the best thing to do.

Keep an eye on your motor mounts. The front one goes bad, the engine moves excessively and it tears the AC line. So now you need an AC line and a motor mount. Well over a grand to fix.

 

[njohnson]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by bbhero
Again... Is it on a PDS anywhere?? Is on a spec sheet of any sort anywhere out for public observation/reading?? Don't think so.. but could be wrong.

Also if they had figured that all out then why not make advertising touting that ability?? Did that ever happen??

"Hey if you run Mobil 1 and you have a GDI motor it will help stop low speed pre ignition" etc etc... That would have been a good way to help promote their own product. Did they ever do that?? It would interesting to find out if they ever did..


It was apparent by the UOA's and VOA's and YES the PDS which showed a new SA of .8.

4. Mobil 1 motor oils are so advanced that they have met the API SN Plus performance standard since 2010.
Many Mobil 1 motor oils already meet the API SN Plus performance standard, making these full synthetic oils more than seven years ahead of their time for providing protection against LSPI.



Does Mobil 1 themselves.... Ever point this OUT????

Did they ever say... Hey guess what boys and girls... Our stuff helps do this and this and this???

Yeah that is what I am looking for...

Direct from them. Not anything else.

It's looking more and more like the REAL answer here is a big NO...

They, THEMSELVES, never at any one time put out a truly public statement or document stating ANYTHING about how great it was that they had truly figured out what LSPI was and that by their changes in additives... It would help combat that...

Produce that... Something tells me that is not there and never was... That they only happened to accidentally run into a solution there... It really wasn't planned...

Because if it was.... They would have stated so in a public way either in advertising, PDS or another type of published study....

Again... Maybe they did... But no one has found it yet....


This is from Mobil's website.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection

 

[pbm]

I just popped back into this thread and was surprised that it has so many (very informative) replies.
I had started it originally because I was interested in knowing if the Mobil 1 AP (Annual Protection) 5w20 that I picked up for $2 a quart at the AZ CLEARANCE meets the d1g2 standard even though it's labeled d1?
After reading all the replies, I think I can safely assume it does...

PS: I walked into an AZ yesterday and found 7 qts. of the 5w20 AP @ $2 each....it's still out there....

 

[bbhero]

Ahh yeah that is actually an update...

Which is fine and dandy.

I still think they happened to have accidentally run into a solution before a problem was even diagnosed several years ago. Say like from 2011-2015. They didn't say anything of the sort in that time frame.

Many and I mean many good answers to problems in science come by pure happenstance or accident. Antibiotics started out this way.

Funny yet true... Statin drugs were actually found to be a bit helpful for multiple sclerosis... Other drugs were found out to be helpful in things no one thought of... Like rat poison.... Properties of that in extremely small doses help people with atrial fibrillation... By thinning the blood enough to keep clots from forming in the atria of the heart. Which then get sent to the brain causing strokes...

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by bbhero
Again... Is it on a PDS anywhere?? Is on a spec sheet of any sort anywhere out for public observation/reading?? Don't think so.. but could be wrong.

Also if they had figured that all out then why not make advertising touting that ability?? Did that ever happen??

"Hey if you run Mobil 1 and you have a GDI motor it will help stop low speed pre ignition" etc etc... That would have been a good way to help promote their own product. Did they ever do that?? It would interesting to find out if they ever did..


It was apparent by the UOA's and VOA's and YES the PDS which showed a new SA of .8.

4. Mobil 1 motor oils are so advanced that they have met the API SN Plus performance standard since 2010.
Many Mobil 1 motor oils already meet the API SN Plus performance standard, making these full synthetic oils more than seven years ahead of their time for providing protection against LSPI.



Does Mobil 1 themselves.... Ever point this OUT????

Did they ever say... Hey guess what boys and girls... Our stuff helps do this and this and this???

Yeah that is what I am looking for...

Direct from them. Not anything else.

It's looking more and more like the REAL answer here is a big NO...

They, THEMSELVES, never at any one time put out a truly public statement or document stating ANYTHING about how great it was that they had truly figured out what LSPI was and that by their changes in additives... It would help combat that...

Produce that... Something tells me that is not there and never was... That they only happened to accidentally run into a solution there... It really wasn't planned...

Because if it was.... They would have stated so in a public way either in advertising, PDS or another type of published study....

Again... Maybe they did... But no one has found it yet....


This is from Mobil's website.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-modern-engines/lspi-protection



or....Maybe they wanted to keep quiet about their findings for competitive reasons.

 

[bbhero]

Castrol had a similar additive package to Mobil 1...

Low Ca+ no Na+ and high Mg+.

Something tells me it was fortuitous happenstance. .

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Castrol had a similar additive package to Mobil 1...

Low Ca+ no Na+ and high Mg+.

Something tells me it was fortuitous happenstance. .

The strange thing was that I noticed Castrol Edge 5W30 had the low Ca/high Mg/very low Na package in a PQIA report from 2013, but VOAs and UOAs on here showed that they went to a high calcium package with little magnesium within maybe a year or so (I think sodium was still very low).
Then they had to go back for d1G2!!

 

[Gokhan]

Mobil 1 Ca --> Ca + Mg transition happened with the SM --> SN transition. The reason for the change was to reduce the ash levels in SN. By pure luck, it was also discovered much later that calcium was the primary culprit behind LSPI. Therefore, Mobil 1 was already LSPI-protection-ready even if it wasn't their original intention to do so.

Note on detergents:

Ca: Neutralizes all types of acids, which results in fast TBN depletion (poor TBN retention).
Mg: Doesn't neutralize all types of acids, which results in slow TBN depletion (good TBN retention).
Ca + Mg: Best of both worlds -- all types acids are neutralized, yet with slow TBN depletion (good TBN retention).

 

[bbhero]

True indeed... Were the low Ca Na and high Mg... Then went to the high Ca and low Mg... Only to have to go back

 

[bbhero]

But other oil additive packages maintained high Calcium like Pennzoil... and it was SN... And Dexos approved. Pennzoil had well over 2000 ppm of Ca+ at times 2600 ppm in all their oils. Havoline did too. Mobil Special also had 2400 ppm plus of Ca+

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Mobil 1 Ca --> Ca + Mg transition happened with the SM --> SN transition. The reason for the change was to reduce the ash levels in SN. By pure luck, it was also discovered much later that calcium was the primary culprit behind LSPI. Therefore, Mobil 1 was already LSPI-protection-ready even if it wasn't their original intention to do so.

Note on detergents:

Ca: Neutralizes all types of acids, which results in fast TBN depletion (poor TBN retention).
Mg: Doesn't neutralize all types of acids, which results in slow TBN depletion (good TBN retention).
Ca + Mg: Best of both worlds -- all types acids are neutralized, yet with slow TBN depletion (good TBN retention).



That is correct, however in an email I had sent them back in 2012, they did mention that LSPI was also a factor. Being XOM jointly owns Infineum, who was likely working on the LSPI issue, maybe that gave XOM (M1) a slight insight into the issue. Either way, they were 7 years ahead as it's clear all the others now use the Mg/Ca.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Mobil 1 Ca --> Ca + Mg transition happened with the SM --> SN transition. The reason for the change was to reduce the ash levels in SN. By pure luck, it was also discovered much later that calcium was the primary culprit behind LSPI. Therefore, Mobil 1 was already LSPI-protection-ready even if it wasn't their original intention to do so.

Note on detergents:

Ca: Neutralizes all types of acids, which results in fast TBN depletion (poor TBN retention).
Mg: Doesn't neutralize all types of acids, which results in slow TBN depletion (good TBN retention).
Ca + Mg: Best of both worlds -- all types acids are neutralized, yet with slow TBN depletion (good TBN retention).



Really good post gokhan.

I still think they we're not that far ahead of anything or any curve... Neither was Castrol using a similar additive package during that same exact time frame..

I do believe without a doubt that ExxonMobil makes great products. As evidenced by me buying 9 five qt containers of Mobil Super. That oil held up to 12-14k mile runs done by PSD. Oil still in grade after all those miles. And the "wear" metals were actually lower than Pennzoil Ultra. That is very impressive for Mobil Super. ExxonMobil makes their offerings to a high standard. No matter what tier of their oil one buys.

 

[dailydriver]

Since the M1 5W-20 EP is one of the only 'on the shelf at Wal Mart' D1G2 EP oils in that viscosity (Castrol, WHERE'S YOUR 'gold bottle' D1G2 5W-20 EP?!), HOW do I find out it's NOACK, and a 'best guess' at base stock content?
(Since EVERYONE ONLY ever mentions M1 0W-20 EP as having a huge PAO base stock content percentage, but NEVER even a hint at what the 5W-20 is made out of, besides a good deal of Visom.)

This is going into a Ford EcoBoost 1.6 TDI for a winter OCI (so low LSPI, and intake valve deposits ARE of a 'concern'

), and I am looking for the closest D1G2 5W-20 to the crazy good; 5.8 NOACK, 12 starting TBN, but still low SA, Amsoil 5W-20 Sig Series as I can get, without spending 2-3 times as much as a 'Wal Mart' oil (even with a short term, "Preferred Customer" discount on the Sig Series), and still having some decent fuel dilution resistance.
HOW exactly, does Amsoil beat D1G2 low SA specs while still yielding a 12.0 TBN?!?

BTW; For summer OCIs I use the Ravenol DXG 5W-30.