Mobil 0w40 good enough for a race car

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
It depends on how long the race is. M1 0w40 has a reputation for shearing down in viscosity from breaking the VII additives. No endurance racing then.

You had better inform several GT3 teams of this fact.

These are professional GT3 teams, who can afford to lose an engine now and then. Remember, M1 0w40 only shears down some, not too much. Those Porsche engines are tolerant to a degree, so they usually survive. Also, if you're trying to win, some viscosity loss is desirable as it frees up more HP during the last half of the race.

A weekend amateur racer is probably more concerned about a visc margin to keep from losing an engine. Kind of like how Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros have recommendations to use 15w50 to make double sure the engine survives.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Porsche runs 0W-40 in their Le Mans cars with good success. Although I think this is in-part fueled by marketing so they can say, "we run the same oil in the racecar as what comes in the car from the factory." There are surely better oils they could use (the C7.R uses Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50). I've always advocated racing oil for a race car. Just like you wouldn't put street tires or brake pads on a race car.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Wasn't it largely disproven that the "race" advertised M1 0w40 was the same as commercial Walmart 0w40?

And didn't M1 reformulate 0w40 from release to what is sold today? I think the earliest samples didn't sheer down nearly as quickly as the current formulation does. Right around when they lost BMW LL01.

This might explain a lot of things. Given how quickly M1 shears down in even non-demanding turbo commuter car uses, I would never consider it for use even to just auto track my car.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Wasn't it largely disproven that the "race" advertised M1 0w40 was the same as commercial Walmart 0w40?

And didn't M1 reformulate 0w40 from release to what is sold today? I think the earliest samples didn't sheer down nearly as quickly as the current formulation does. Right around when they lost BMW LL01.

This might explain a lot of things. Given how quickly M1 shears down in even non-demanding turbo commuter car uses, I would never consider it for use even to just auto track my car.


I think you're correct. This was back when 0W-40 wasn't "FS" (GTL based). Does Porsche still factory fill certain models with M1 0W-40?

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Porsche runs 0W-40 in their Le Mans cars with good success. Although I think this is in-part fueled by marketing so they can say, "we run the same oil in the racecar as what comes in the car from the factory." There are surely better oils they could use (the C7.R uses Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50). I've always advocated racing oil for a race car. Just like you wouldn't put street tires or brake pads on a race car.


I doubt they are using a street Mobil oil on pro race teams. Back when I used to crew in Grand Am, the series and our car were sponsored by some oil company (sorry, honestly can not remember who it was now). We could only have that companies oil bottles shown in the pit or paddock as part of the sponsorship package. We would actually dump the oil out of the bottles, clean them up and refill with Redline actual race oil. The free stuff never touched our car.

Just remember, pro racing is about marketing on the surface. What goes on in the pits can be completely different.

With that said, in my own racecar (300 hp NA Honda Civic), I would run Mobil1 5W30 street oil and just change it after every weekend. But it only cost me $10k to build a new motor. Most guys with $100k+ motors would run better oils.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Redline does seem to be the most commonly used oil I've seen in paddocks and amateur weekend racers.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Redline does seem to be the most commonly used oil I've seen in paddocks and amateur weekend racers.


It's cheap (for a race oil), and easy to get.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Yeah, I'm planning to use Redline 10w40 in my Porsche on it's next oil change. The extremely high calcium content for my DFI engine does concern me somewhat but I'm probably over worrying. It's not a DFI Turbo, just DFI.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Wasn't it largely disproven that the "race" advertised M1 0w40 was the same as commercial Walmart 0w40?



Not that I recall. Johnny, who worked for Pennzoil spent some time at one of the 24hr races, I think it was Sebring, and they were using M1 0w-40 in number of the cars. Doug Hillary has also mentioned that this is what many of the teams use, and he's worked closely with many of them.

But yes, the product has changed since that was all current, as that's all pre-"FS".

 

[FlyPenFly]

I think the more common things I've read and heard, was that except for tire sponsorships, just because your car says TIDE on it, doesn't mean you're not using something else to wash your racing suit.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think the more common things I've read and heard, was that except for tire sponsorships, just because your car says TIDE on it, doesn't mean you're not using something else to wash your racing suit.


Your vague scepticism doesn't really refute what I've posted

 

[OVERKILL]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...Rac#Post1890246

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hello,
I thought this may be of interesting to some

I am in Nurburg is Germany - at the Nurburgring. The 38th annual 24hr race is underway. some things that may be of interest

1 - Mobil1 0W-40 is the oil used by Porsche in their race cars - including the new Hybrid! It is an "off the shelf" version! This was confirmed by the Engineers from Weissach when I was in the Pits!

2 - A Daimler AG Protoype Engineer (Unterturkheim now at Sindelfingen) who is staying here with me (and a Mercedes Team complement) confirmed the fact that using the correct viscosity is the answer

3 - Castrol's EDGE RS 10W-60 (SL/CF) is quite popular with some Teams (VW-Audi privateers). Some Teams use a SAE30 variant and some use 15W-50 - synthetics rule!!

I hope this is of interest!


From the same thread:

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
A little update from the Nurburgring. The main event started at 3pm today (it is 8pm as I write this)
And the Mathey GT3 RS and the R8 “favorite” are having a great battle! Only 19 hours left!

Some more lubricant information follows - I cannot add names to the people I mention for several reasons

These lubricants are the mainstay:
Castrol Edge RS 10W-60 and their TWS variant and Edge 0W-40 - the BMW “players” use these lubricants are quite common. I spent some time with a senior BMW Motorsport executive. He was very informative on many BMW issues

Some BMW racers use 10W-30 and/or 5W-40 viscosities. The French (Renault) racers use ELF of course and 15W-50 seemed to be popular along with 0W-40

Motul V300 is used by some racers and in a variety of engines - 15W-50 was the popular viscosity

I spent some time with a senior Aston Martin Engineer (German) who is based at their facility in Nurburg
He said that they use “off the shelf” M1 0W-40 and that is used in the cars racing here at the moment

Porsche racers seem to stay with Mobil 1 - as I said earlier many follow the Factory and use 0W-40 and others use 15W-40. None I met with used a 10W-60 lubricant

The heavily secretive Japanese Engineers told me that they use Motul V300 15W-50 in long range events

Opel’s facility at Nurburg has produced some excellent results for GM! Opel know what they are doing even if GM doesn’t!

It has been a real experience to have had access to so many high level persons here. My friend the Technical Director of the Porsche Museum was not able to be here. It was more than made up for by the free access given to me by Porsche Motorsport - at all levels

I spent some time with a young South African Driver Shane Williams. He was the winner of te SEAT event. He is a “VW” star so watch for him. He is intelligent and knowledgeable - motorbikes and Karts help!
Cross pollination of Technical knowledge and equipment between VM, SEAT, Audi and Skoda make for an interesting future. Combine this with Porsche now in the family and the VW Group’s star is shinning bright

Daimler AG’s linkage to the “French connection” with common floor pans and dispatite bodies assures it of a future in advance small cars

IMO there is no doubt that the Euro philosophies on car and engine design will see a spread of this into Asia, India and Africa

The DTM and this event are dissimilar. This event is multi class and a "Classic" sub event (3 hours duration)is also held

 

[1JZ_E46]

Thanks for the information Overkill, awesome to hear that teams have success with off the shelf oils under such grueling conditions. Do you know which Castrol EDGE the new Ford GT runs? I think it's the 5W-50 "Supercar" formula?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Thanks for the information Overkill, awesome to hear that teams have success with off the shelf oils under such grueling conditions. Do you know which Castrol EDGE the new Ford GT runs? I think it's the 5W-50 "Supercar" formula?


I do not, sorry. Doug may know however. He's got a close relationship with many of these engineers and race teams.