Shel_B
Site Donor 2023
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2020
- Messages
- 5,167
This.
Metal specs in 2GR-FKS ( 2019 - Highlander V6 at 50 000 miles)
- Thread starter naimc
- Start date
So the engine was out in January, and now in end of September it’s only accrued 4,000 miles? this is the first oil change since all this work?
Maybe a short OCI is in order, but all that metal, methinks something is wrong. I’m guessing valvetrain, maybe no oil is making its way upstairs. I wonder if the cams are grinding themselves away. Not sure how the valvetrain is oiled but if the head gasket was replaced, perhaps they blocked off feed somehow.
What kind of warranty was given for this work?
Maybe a short OCI is in order, but all that metal, methinks something is wrong. I’m guessing valvetrain, maybe no oil is making its way upstairs. I wonder if the cams are grinding themselves away. Not sure how the valvetrain is oiled but if the head gasket was replaced, perhaps they blocked off feed somehow.
What kind of warranty was given for this work?
I think this is possible. Keep everything for evidence and let the dealer know. That way it’s on record.
which doesn't explain the first failure.. this is the second..
FWIW this post is an example of why engine work is a loser for most mechanics and why they dont want to do it..
You mean the first failure of a leaking front cover from the factory which is somewhat common? The cylinder head removal job which is the one that can cause the most dirt or abrasive intrusion
OP does not mention if oil change was complete through any of these repairs, by himself or the dealership. From what OP indicated there was no evidence of large amounts of metal prior to these repairs.
here is what we know... QUOTE" Our SUV ( 2019 Highlander with the V6 2GR-FKS at 50 000 miles) had the engine taken out by local Toyota dealership to fix a leaking timing cover, ( 2end time this was repaired )"... QUOTE.
so do we blame the mechanic or do we wonder if Toyota built one of those babies that doesn't live a long life? I have no idea how common a front timing cover repair is on a Toyota..
This particular engine is somewhat common. The OP did not state how apart these repairs were.
I thought there was a thread on here a few years ago about '19-20ish Highlander that was shedding a lot of metal during it's first few oil changes done by the owner. When corporate saw the pics of I think the oil filter remnants a new engine was ordered and installed.
Updated, history about the vehicle we pruchased it second hand from a Kia dealer in 2020, at the time when I was researching the vehicle and looking for winter tires. I found the original owner who sold it to Kia, he had purchased an extended Toyota warranty, and we did the transfer of the original Toyota extended warranty from him to me. The Kia sales guy could not figure out how I had traced back the original owner !
He have me all of the original papers of the car and already at 44 000 km had diagnostics a leaking time cover. I had that repaired by Toyota under warranty at around the 46 000 km
Last summer when was dong my oil change I noticed the timing cover leaking again, car had about 73 000 km, This time I chose a different Toyota dealer one who is only 5 min from where I live. They found the timing cover leak and one of the cylinder gasket heads was leaking. They told me they pull both cylinder gaskets and replace both although only one was leaking.
I went to the see the service center this morning brought them my filter and pictures of the magnetic plug. They are were over-all very confused as well thier client typical don't do this kind of stuff, replace the drain plug with a magnetic one.
The head tech came out we argued over oil capacity of the engine and the "normalcy" or metal particles in used engine oil. The tech says the metal shaving on the drain plug don't mean anything to them as this is not an original part. The head tech told me that the gasket material is non-metallic so the iron can't be coming from that. The only explanation could have been dust from the repair ?
I will bring the vehicle this Thursday, they will change the oil and put a tamper proof seal on the plug, then in January I will go back for a second oil change to see if the metal particles are still present. The vehicle still have extended Toyota warranty till March 9th 2024 6 months or 100 000 KM, it currently at 80300 KM.
I won't dump the vehicle at this point to early. I'm in Montreal QC , cold weather, this is our second car used mostly for long distances we do use a engine block heater when the temp drop below the -4F in winter. I have been using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 0w20 for all my oil changes around the 7000km mark.
I have never had an oil sample take with Blackstone but thinking about it as I kept the used oil in a clean jug.
thanks for you comments here as a average car owner like myself has not idea of what constitutes a normal spent oil filter.
He have me all of the original papers of the car and already at 44 000 km had diagnostics a leaking time cover. I had that repaired by Toyota under warranty at around the 46 000 km
Last summer when was dong my oil change I noticed the timing cover leaking again, car had about 73 000 km, This time I chose a different Toyota dealer one who is only 5 min from where I live. They found the timing cover leak and one of the cylinder gasket heads was leaking. They told me they pull both cylinder gaskets and replace both although only one was leaking.
I went to the see the service center this morning brought them my filter and pictures of the magnetic plug. They are were over-all very confused as well thier client typical don't do this kind of stuff, replace the drain plug with a magnetic one.
The head tech came out we argued over oil capacity of the engine and the "normalcy" or metal particles in used engine oil. The tech says the metal shaving on the drain plug don't mean anything to them as this is not an original part. The head tech told me that the gasket material is non-metallic so the iron can't be coming from that. The only explanation could have been dust from the repair ?
I will bring the vehicle this Thursday, they will change the oil and put a tamper proof seal on the plug, then in January I will go back for a second oil change to see if the metal particles are still present. The vehicle still have extended Toyota warranty till March 9th 2024 6 months or 100 000 KM, it currently at 80300 KM.
I won't dump the vehicle at this point to early. I'm in Montreal QC , cold weather, this is our second car used mostly for long distances we do use a engine block heater when the temp drop below the -4F in winter. I have been using Pennzoil Platinum Ultra 0w20 for all my oil changes around the 7000km mark.
I have never had an oil sample take with Blackstone but thinking about it as I kept the used oil in a clean jug.
thanks for you comments here as a average car owner like myself has not idea of what constitutes a normal spent oil filter.
no he doesn't. so anything on this end is speculation..
like the metallic fuzz on the drain plug..
OP, the "head tech" is 100% wrong on the head gasket material, it is steel. Again plenty of opportunity for steel shavings after removing BOTH heads, the chains, camshafts, and a "jr tech" not torquing things back where they were supposed to be.
Another 3k run and a UOA would be very smart at this point. Blackstone takes almost a month as of today to do returns, but Napa took barely a week for me.
Another 3k run and a UOA would be very smart at this point. Blackstone takes almost a month as of today to do returns, but Napa took barely a week for me.
Wearcheck gets the UOA done in a couple days.
That engine looks like it has 300000 miles of wear on it.
My highlander with 100000 miles looks brand new.
Something doesn't add up...
My highlander with 100000 miles looks brand new.
Something doesn't add up...
Incidentally I watched this video about Toyota 3.5 engines and the valve cover leak a few days ago.
In this video the guy mentions some sort of oring, that if it is forgotten during re-assembly the engine will grenade as the oil supply will be limited to the heads, I think. I don’t know at which point he mentions this though.
I would suggest to the OP to watch this video.
In this video the guy mentions some sort of oring, that if it is forgotten during re-assembly the engine will grenade as the oil supply will be limited to the heads, I think. I don’t know at which point he mentions this though.
I would suggest to the OP to watch this video.
All good info thanks.
Last January I left the car with the dealer for a full week ! I asked about this who does the work ? the service rider told me that engine jobs go to the most experienced techs, they enjoyed this type of work as they were able to focus on one job for a few days and did not have to deal with melting snow and crap that are on our car in January.
So I am going to dump the oil today just to have a look at the filter and the magnetic plug, possible re-install the same filter and oil back in if I don't see any new metal dust. as its going to dumped on Thursday morning at my the Toyota dealer who is only 2 miles away from me.
@KrisZ I had seen that video and paint close attention to it again today, AMD says the o ring are on the low pan oil pick-up, if they forget them the engine blows up 5-10 min after ! So not the case with mine.
For the next months I will make sure to do regular italian tune-up, making sure to Rev-up the 2GR-FKS more than I usually do. Everyone seems to think it will "grenade in short order" good we shall see.
It's not that simple though, the o-ring could've been pinched or damaged during installation, so some oil goes though, but not enough.
That much metal fuzz in oil is definitely not normal, that's why people are saying the engine will not survive for long it this continues. And since in order to seal the timing cover properly, the oil pump needs to be touched, I think it's a likely culprit.
Also, when you drain the oil, let it sit in the drain pan for a few days, then carefully, without stirring or mixing the oil, drain it as much as you can. If there are metal particles, they will settle at the bottom. Shine a bright light at it and you will see the metal shavings sparkling.
Then save that brine for the dealer and show it to them. Put it in a jar or something.
Today it was clear for me that any kind of "evidence" I collect does not matter from Toyota's / dealers perspective.
They will do their monitoring, dump the oil on Thursday and reinstall toyota oil & filter ( I only used filters I purchase at this same dealship) put an anti-tamper tape on the plug and ask me to go back in January. ( I want to be present when the dump the oil out in January.)
Meanwhile today I drove 5 min, and dumped the oil that only has 200 KM on it.
The plug did not have much on it. ( black stuff on my underbody is WoolWax I spray it on every year)
But on shop rag you can see the metallic slug I rubbed off the magnet.
I put the oil back in the engine, and the bottom of my plastic drain pan did have a few pin size flakes, Are they new ? for now I presume that's the case and my general Thoughts here is to drive as much as possible before January, checking the oil level so toyota does not say ruined the engine because it was missing a few ml of oil , (like the head tech was hinting at today, it's not even funny how they like to to jump the gun and insinuate it's your fault if your having an engine issue. I keep reminding them that the 16000 KM oil change interval is fubar, and I don't think anyone would have noticed the metal spec's if the oil had been changed at the dealer.
It would be shame if the motor dies in the winter as that's when we use this vehicle the most but better die soon than later if it has to.
They will do their monitoring, dump the oil on Thursday and reinstall toyota oil & filter ( I only used filters I purchase at this same dealship) put an anti-tamper tape on the plug and ask me to go back in January. ( I want to be present when the dump the oil out in January.)
Meanwhile today I drove 5 min, and dumped the oil that only has 200 KM on it.
The plug did not have much on it. ( black stuff on my underbody is WoolWax I spray it on every year)
But on shop rag you can see the metallic slug I rubbed off the magnet.
I put the oil back in the engine, and the bottom of my plastic drain pan did have a few pin size flakes, Are they new ? for now I presume that's the case and my general Thoughts here is to drive as much as possible before January, checking the oil level so toyota does not say ruined the engine because it was missing a few ml of oil , (like the head tech was hinting at today, it's not even funny how they like to to jump the gun and insinuate it's your fault if your having an engine issue. I keep reminding them that the 16000 KM oil change interval is fubar, and I don't think anyone would have noticed the metal spec's if the oil had been changed at the dealer.
It would be shame if the motor dies in the winter as that's when we use this vehicle the most but better die soon than later if it has to.
So tell me,would the people saying to unload it tell the prospective buyer or not.
Update : Sept 28, brough the car to the dealer I was assigned a friendly mechanic how answered all my question's last month I rebuilt the front brake calipers, serviced the back ones and did a air bleeding then redid the Toyota ABS air bleeding with the techstream software this being our only Highlander I still felt the pedall was a bit soft and was wondering what a real mechanic would think. I got a pass on my brake job. He gave me an assessment of the Woolwax antirust proofing : I forgot the U-joint on the main rear axel and the suggested I paint and not spray the wheel axles as the wool wax will attract dust and possible cause a disbalance of the shafts over time and humming noise. Duly noted, I will make sure to clean off excessive dirt in the future.
We then discussed how the dealerships do the oil change, and it was confirmed that none looks at the filter elements looking for fine particles. I guess if they see silver oil they will look but otherwise never.
If the engine is not starved of oil and someone goofed on reassembly the only logical explanation for fine metal particles would be the job of buffing out off the old gaskets creates fine dust. Mechanic told me that although they do there best to keep everything clean its possible that some of this fine powered makes its way in places it should be present. He also say they do these timing cover leak repairs a few times a year and he can't recall any destroyed engines. They do see destroyed engines on occastion and that typical comes from customer neglected.
The engine was refilled with dealer oil, paint marks put on my oil plug , oil filter, tap on my dipstick and oil fill cap to make it "tamper proof" No I drive around , mid January we will dump the oil and filter and consider next steps and update this thread.
All in all I am very happy with the way the local service center is dealing with me. I really like fact they let me watch the operation and have direct access to the shop floor and mechanic.
We then discussed how the dealerships do the oil change, and it was confirmed that none looks at the filter elements looking for fine particles. I guess if they see silver oil they will look but otherwise never.
If the engine is not starved of oil and someone goofed on reassembly the only logical explanation for fine metal particles would be the job of buffing out off the old gaskets creates fine dust. Mechanic told me that although they do there best to keep everything clean its possible that some of this fine powered makes its way in places it should be present. He also say they do these timing cover leak repairs a few times a year and he can't recall any destroyed engines. They do see destroyed engines on occastion and that typical comes from customer neglected.
The engine was refilled with dealer oil, paint marks put on my oil plug , oil filter, tap on my dipstick and oil fill cap to make it "tamper proof" No I drive around , mid January we will dump the oil and filter and consider next steps and update this thread.
All in all I am very happy with the way the local service center is dealing with me. I really like fact they let me watch the operation and have direct access to the shop floor and mechanic.
Similar threads
