M1 Euro 0w40 vs Pennzoil Ultra 10w30

Status
Not open for further replies.
XxMerlinxX

XxMerlinxX

Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
19
Location
Anderson, S.C.
These are the two oils I'm considering for my E92 M3. This particular car, and my year specifically, are plagued with bearing issues. The recommended oil from BMW is Castrol TWS 10w60, which I feel is too thick, especially for cold starts when bearing wear occurs.

Many owners on the M3 forum are running M1 Euro 0W40 and showing an average decrease in lead levels in their oil reports. I have not seen any oil reports of PU at all, but have bought into the hype of their new natural gas refined base stock leading to superior cleaning of the engine.

I've also read that the HTHS of the oil for my car should be around 3.5 and I have no idea what it is for either product.

Any sort of guidance would be greatly appreciated.
 
There are 2 oils readily available for your cars, Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Syntec 0W40. Mobil 1 0W40 HTHS is 3.8, I don't know HTHS of Castrol Syntec 0W40 but it is 3.5 or higher because it is on MB list 239.5

Pennzoil Ultra 10w30 is not on MB list 239.5 so it is possible that its HTHS is below 3.5. Most 10W30 weight have HTHS around 3.0-3.3.

PS If you like Pennzoil, the Platinum Euro 5W40 has HTHS of 3.5 or higher, it is also on MB list 239.5
 
Last edited:
A 10W-30 and 10W-60 flow the same when cold, not sure what you are looking to achieve with the 10W-30 - especially considering it's not BMW LL-01 or even ACEA A3 approved with an HTHS of > 3.5 cP. Either way, cold flow with a 10W wouldn't matter in SC anyway.

Of the two options, I would stick to M1 0W-40.
 
Somehow I missed that PU comes in a 5w40 variety as well, which I agree would be a better pick than the 10w30.

Alright, so it basically comes down to M1 0w40 vs PU 5w40. Thoughts?
 
Flip a coin, they are both that good.
wink.gif
 
How about a quart of Castrol 0W-30? (German Castrol)

Meet MB 229.5 spec, and should thin out the 0W-40...

See my signature below...
 
Forgive my ignorance, but why try to make your own "blend" when chemists are paid by the truck load to blend the oil with target specs in mind?
 
Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX
The recommended oil from BMW is Castrol TWS 10w60, which I feel is too thick, especially for cold starts when bearing wear occurs.


BMW engineers know very little.
 
Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX
Somehow I missed that PU comes in a 5w40 variety as well, which I agree would be a better pick than the 10w30.

Alright, so it basically comes down to M1 0w40 vs PU 5w40. Thoughts?


Whichever is cheaper.

I've had great UOAs with both. Granted, those UOAs were in Volvos (see sig), but they're both excellent oils...

I am curious though, if BMW recommends a higher viscosity, and a particular oil, why not go with that? Why do you "feel it's too thick"? You're in SC, hardly cold there...so, truly cold starts aren't an issue for your engine.

Seems to me that oil is cheap, while bearings are rather pricey...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX
These are the two oils I'm considering for my E92 M3. This particular car, and my year specifically, are plagued with bearing issues. The recommended oil from BMW is Castrol TWS 10w60, which I feel is too thick, especially for cold starts when bearing wear occurs.


I can assure you the 10w60 is not too thick where you live. I ran Castrol RS 10w60 in a 4cyl water cooled DOHC 165 HP bike engine for 12 years and over 200K the main, rod bearing, cam and bores were within factory spec for new parts when i tore it down to replace a stretched cam chain (i reused the bearings).

They don't sell the RS any longer and in the US i don't think they ever did, it had a red color.
They do sell a 10w50 for bikes that is very similar, i would give that serious consideration. It is spec for bike engines but that is not an issue, it is more resistant to shearing because it has to withstand lubing the transmission also.
It is designed for high revving, high HP per displacement DOHC 4 stroke engines, your engine certainly meets that criteria.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MISF54?*Version*=1&*entries*=0
 
Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX
These are the two oils I'm considering for my E92 M3. This particular car, and my year specifically, are plagued with bearing issues. The recommended oil from BMW is Castrol TWS 10w60, which I feel is too thick, especially for cold starts when bearing wear occurs.


It would be helpful to understand where you got that impression firstly.

What have you read that links cold starts to bearing wear ?

Cold start ... the oil behaves as a 10W...a 10W30 with an HTHS of 3 or 3.5 would have similar pumpability at temperatures well below freezing...would have oil to the bearings at the same time, and maintain oil supply to the bearings.

What is there to cause increased bearing wear during this process ?

As to the 60 part, I understand that the issue with some BMW engines is big ends, when hot, and at high revs/loads...if the design is marginal, then thicker oil provides a greater level of protection against bearing wear, which is why these engines are specced the 10W60s.

Next question is where the 3.5 HTHS recommendation comes from.

If your OEm specs 10W60, then that's a serious consideration.
 
Originally Posted By: BRZED
Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX
The recommended oil from BMW is Castrol TWS 10w60, which I feel is too thick, especially for cold starts when bearing wear occurs.


BMW engineers know very little.


engineers01.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX
Somehow I missed that PU comes in a 5w40 variety as well, which I agree would be a better pick than the 10w30.

Alright, so it basically comes down to M1 0w40 vs PU 5w40. Thoughts?


HTHS on both of those is ~3.8, and the PU may be more shear resistant. But for an M3 E92, maybe you need to go thicker. Something like Red Line 5w40 or 10w40, which are both 4.4 HTHS. If you are not running your car on race tracks, I don't think you need 10w60.
 
I wouldn't screw with a 30-weight in that engine. Its obviously got a colossal lack of design margin on the rod bearings, and is one case where it absolutely needs very thick (specifically HTHS) oil in the bearing clearance in order to survive at all.

10w60 has the same cold-start performance as 10w30 anyway, you're chasing ghosts if you think 10w30 will be better in that regard.

If you drive it gently, then M1 or Castrol 0w40 might work, but I wouldn't risk it.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
10w60 has the same cold-start performance as 10w30 anyway, you're chasing ghosts if you think 10w30 will be better in that regard.


M1 5W-50 may work fine, but maybe BMW really wants an oil with HTHS >5. Fickle cam lobes.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

It would be helpful to understand where you got that impression firstly.

What have you read that links cold starts to bearing wear ?


I'm not sure where I read that cold starts without good lubrication leads to bearing wear. My fear is that the 10w60 is too thick to move quickly enough to protect the bearings at startup.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Cold start ... the oil behaves as a 10W...a 10W30 with an HTHS of 3 or 3.5 would have similar pumpability at temperatures well below freezing...would have oil to the bearings at the same time, and maintain oil supply to the bearings.

Forget that I mentioned 10w30, it was a bad choice and I wasn't aware that there's a PUP 5w40. I'm assuming that the 0W40 and 5W40 would get to the bearings sooner at startup?

Originally Posted By: Shannow
What is there to cause increased bearing wear during this process ?

Inadequate flow through the journals?

Originally Posted By: Shannow
As to the 60 part, I understand that the issue with some BMW engines is big ends, when hot, and at high revs/loads...if the design is marginal, then thicker oil provides a greater level of protection against bearing wear, which is why these engines are specced the 10W60s.

At one point, BMW switched gears and stated that any LL-01 certified oil could be run in the M engines. When Pennzoil took over as the OEM supplier of oil, the spec went back to 10w60. Since this is a high revving V8 that was designed for the track, I feel as though 10W60 was specced so that it could shear down to something still tolerable for longer oil changes or constant high RPM use. I'm not using it as a track car, it's my DD and I may go to a couple of autox or track events a year. My main concern is bearing wear, which I think is greatest at cold starts due to the bearing tolerances and thickness of the oil. I always believed that tighter tolerances call for a thinner oil, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Next question is where the 3.5 HTHS recommendation comes from.

I've seen it thrown around on M3Post quite a bit, but I'm not sure where it comes from.
 
Using proper jargon would be helpful. Mixing up tolerances and clearances is not helpful. Clearances are the clear spaces between objects and tolerances are the permissable variations in dimensions that arise due due to manufacturing inaccuracies. Surely 15W-60 oil will get into the bearing journals even with tight clearances. The manufacturer will not recommend an unsuitable viscosity that will result in a bearing starving. I doubt BMW suggest using 10W-60 under arctic temperatures. An engine wears most at a cold start. The amount of wear depends not only on how fast a bearing journal gets loaded with fresh oil, but what was left behind on friction surfaces when the engine was shut off. The attempt to minimize startup wear is somewhat of a wild goose chase. If you want to prevent mechanical wear, just don't ever start the engine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Nicasio
I know Mobil1 Euro 0w40 has been one of the best versatile oils
Replies
4
Views
2K
ka9mnx
Nicasio
About to run Euro 0w40 on Buick 455
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
SR5
H. Swanson
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.0T - Amsoil 5w30 vs 5w40 vs 0w40
2
Replies
20
Views
1K
addyguy
M
10w30 Rotella or 5w40 Euro Castrol
Replies
1
Views
2K
JavierH19
buster
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0w40 >FS 0w40
2
Replies
36
Views
8K
chris719
Back
Top