Lexus IS?

JHZR2 said:
They discontinued the GS, no?

It was always an interesting car to me too. V8, RWD.
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Love ours. 2013 GS350 F Sport, RWD, 6 speed trans. I've heard the 8 speed hunts for the right gear. Get the red interior.
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edyvw said:
I think IS is a missed opportunity for Lexus. The first generation was a good start. And then they chickened out. It doesn’t help that Lexus dealership is not known for conversation among customers about careers, but more about prostate issues.
2nd generation sealed the deal. I never figured what they wanted to do? Steal customers from BMW? They could if they did this:
1. Kept stick shift. IMO now, that would be big deal. Not specifically sales-wise, but even people buying with automatic would be a bit more excited that their vehicle could be that analog.
2. The engine should be sitting more to the back. It hangs in front, and that was always a major complaint, that it is RWD but loves to understeer. That was a problem on older IS-F, though polyurethane bushings in the front control arm did help.
3. To me, it is really telling that the vehicle has a battery under the hood. If a claim is that it is a competition with the 3 series, then they are supposed to shovel that, preferably under the front or back seat, more likely in the trunk. 3 series in some models had weight distribution 49/51%, while IS is almost 55% in front.

I personally like the car the way it looks. The manual gearbox available, including IS-F, and some tweaks around weight distribution (they won't move the engine now on this platform) could make this car very attractive to buyers who want a longitudinal engine, RWD, and stick. I would give serious thought. V8 and stick? All car channels would talk about it. And it would help sale of every other model. That is why BMW has M.
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Part lazy and part avoid the debacle which is caddy v series products and gs issues. People wont buy fire breathing or a drivers car if the badge on the front is not a bba product, even if it wins media awards. Bmw f10 vs lexus 4th gen gs, hands down the lexus was the better car, but folks voted with their wallet for the inferior bmw.
 
proveitwithdata said:
Part lazy and part avoid the debacle which is caddy v series products and gs issues. People wont buy fire breathing or a drivers car if the badge on the front is not a bba product, even if it wins media awards. Bmw f10 vs lexus 4th gen gs, hands down the lexus was the better car, but folks voted with their wallet for the inferior bmw.
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And how Lexus was better product? Because each car has its own customer base.
 
edyvw said:
And how Lexus was better product? Because each car has its own customer base.
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The package was lighter, properly weight balance, steering feel existed
Remember that E60 535i I mentioned, the one we adored and awarded first place in a February 2010 comparison test? Well, this new Lexus GS 350 F Sport reminds us of that car. A lot. Nimble, balanced, precise, and quick, the GS is a (retired) BMW cloaked in Lexus steel. At 3834 pounds, the GS is the lightest of the four and it feels it -- turn-in is sharp and accurate, and weight transfer, whether lateral or longitudinal, is neutral and composed. The Lexus proved the most entertaining, rewarding, and confidence-inspiring up, down, and along our demanding Malibu road loop. Ultimate driving machine? Oh, yeah.

Lieberman: "Great steering. Balanced, communicative, properly weighted. Just a joy to drive. Neutral without being leaden. Very Mazda-like, in fact. And I say all this having driven the car in Sport instead of Sport Plus." Evans: "This is a Lexus? Really impressed with the handling and confidence in the car. Holds the road much better than expected. Can really fling it at the corners." Martinez: "The Sport Plus algorithm allows for a proper testing of its grip and on the loop's tight technical zigzags, it was just right. Only once did any traction control light flash, and, unlike the Infiniti, shifts were clean, fast, and when you wanted them. Also unlike the Infiniti: The Lexus felt way smaller than it was. Like, really smaller.
In driving feel, the Lexus does exactly what you want it to do -- it shrinks around you. Yet, when it comes to pampering, it opens up, inviting you into the richest, most aesthetically pleasing cabin in its class. Lieberman: "Gorgeous interior. Love the metalwork, especially the volume and tune knobs. Feels like they're off my old Marantz Quadradial. Extremely solid and finely made." Martinez: "From the classy analog clock to the soft leather lining the seats, center console, and doors to the near-perfect sport steering wheel and massive and clear multimedia display, this Lexus oozes modern sophistication." Evans: "This is my favorite Lexus interior ever. So refined and stylish. Not boring and not overdone."
Here are some numbers to consider: 0-60 in 5.4 seconds; the quarter mile in 14.0 at 101.0 mph; lateral acceleration of 0.94 g; figure eight of 25.4 seconds at 0.71 g; EPA fuel economy of 19/28; and observed mpg of 18.9. Not first, not last; just right in the sweet spot. Only 60-0 braking, at 110 feet, was behind the curve, but only by 4 feet versus the Audi and BMW. Then there's price. At $58,800 as tested, the GS F Sport, again, sits comfortably in the sweet spot.
OK, now for the whale in the room: the prehistoric fish face. "Predator," "Vader," and "abstract art piece" were some of the other terms thrown around. But as Lieberman summed up: "Please don't let the looks detract you from buying the Lexus GS, because it's without doubt the best car of these four."
So go ahead and trade in that old IS. This GS is a midlife crisis cure-all.
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the bmw was heavier, and slower which is odd, since n54?
It's no secret that we haven't exactly turned cartwheels over this latest generation of 5 Series. Two years ago, when the so-called F10 debuted, it didn't even make it to Round 2 of our Car of the Year competition. And that was a year after the last iteration of the previous-gen E60 won an eight-car comparison test. Talk about following in the footsteps of greatness -- and stumbling.

But whether this $63,245 Alpine White 535i with an M Sport Package stumbled into second place is moot. At the end of an arduous weeklong test, we scored it higher than the Audi, and here's why: better ride (silkiest of the group), quieter interior (quietest of the group), smoother engine (smoothest of the group), engaging steering, more comfortable and supportive seats, and an overwhelming sense of solidity. Whereas the A6 tried really, really hard to feel like a $60,000 automobile, the BMW didn't even break a sweat.
Much of the 5's air of expensiveness comes from its 7 Series' underpinnings, which, alas, make the 535i feel like its bigger and heavier sibling. It is no longer an upsized 3, but rather a downsized 7. While we prefer the former, there is a plus side to the latter. Says Evans: "The embodiment of what I think of when I think German. Very solid, substantial. Buttoned-down and refined, no-nonsense." From Lieberman: "All that solidity equates to one hell of a nice, smooth ride. 80 mph feels more like 40 mph, and 90 mph feels like a totally responsible, safe cruising speed."

Though not as quick as the Audi and just a tick behind the Lexus to 60, the BMW was nonetheless one brisk Bavarian, registering a 0-60 run of 5.5 seconds and a quarter-mile jaunt of 14.0 flat at 99.3 mph. And in addition to putting down a curt 106-foot 60-0 stopping distance, the 535i circled the skidpad with 0.89 g of intensity and weaved through the figure eight in a respectable 25.9 seconds at 0.69 g. The BMW is a rewarding car, in that you get a sense for its easy-to-explore limits, but it's also a frustrating car, because its feels so different from its beloved predecessor. Martinez: "Immediately after turn-in, there comes a behavior that's very non-BMW: Plowing." But endure that initial understeer and the 535i satisfies. Lieberman: "Understeer shows up, but generally because you're pushing hard. A more gentle hand is rewarded with a high level of smoothness and a chassis that eats up transitions and corners."

Also helping the 5's cause: an EPA rating of 21/31 mpg city/highway and an observed score of 20.0 mpg. Efficient dynamics, indeed. Alas, the 535i is a car you respect, not one you fall in love with. Our verdict, per Evans: "Competent, but in a somewhat cold, calculating fashion. I know I can drive it fast, but I don't walk away dreaming of driving it again."
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Sales data was easy bmw. Lexus was dumping massive incentives to move their metal. Lexus didnt want this too happen again.
 
proveitwithdata said:
The package was lighter, properly weight balance, steering feel existed


the bmw was heavier, and slower which is odd, since n54?


Sales data was easy bmw. Lexus was dumping massive incentives to move their metal. Lexus didnt want this too happen again.
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I remember that article. F10 BMW has a much lower center of gravity than GS. Instead of aluminum on suspension parts, they went steel to a lower center of gravity. Now, that was very controversial as steel adds unnecessary weight and is not as reactive as aluminum.
Another thing is that that platform is not joint 3 & 5 series, it is from 7 series. F10 was the first 5 series using 7 series platform.
That is the first BMW used a new approach, and BMW made a mistake there, which they corrected with a facelift in 2014. They wanted to steal customers from Audi, Lexus, and MB. So, they developed a vehicle for everyone. If you want the basic 5 series, you get something that is an orphaned child of BMW, Lexus, and, I guess, Cadillac. If you want something more precise, you get into M sport model. And then there was a version that had all suspension work that was "true" BMW. The problem with BMW folks was that BMW was always fun regardless of how basic it was. They made the same thing with the 3 series F30, and that was a really big deal among the BMW crowd. 4 different suspension setups, 5 different brake options, etc. It is like they went and said: you want a BMW that drives like Lexus? Here it is. Oh, you want a real BMW, here it is. But, they corrected that also as they figured that people who want Lexus buy Lexus or people who want Audi, go and buy Audi.

GS does not have a better weight distribution as F10 is 50/50% (+- 1% depending on the engine, whether it is xDrive or RWD). Also, BMW came with multiple engines. Lexus does not have a chance there, as Toyota does not have so many different engine options on the shelf for a vehicle like that. Another thing is that BMW had a far better transmission, a more reliable one, etc.
That is what I said above. IS is a lost opportunity. They never dared to go all into it. When people see the BMW M5, one of the most capable cars in the world, they want one. But, they do not have money for it or to maintain it, so they will get 528 in case of F10 to at least own part of that fun. In that BMW engine is N55. Now, you might say: wait, didn't BMW try to steal customers from Lexus? Why would Lexus be able to steal customers from BMW? Because BMW, Audi, MB became too automated. BMW is trying to please enthusiasts with 2 series, but while it is very popular (not as popular as the previous model) BMW enthusiasts and all wanting more analog vehicles (think about all "ricers" that now drive Civic or Subaru manual that will make more money in few years) will go for that option as it would be pretty much THE ONLY option. IS 350 with a stick? There is no competition there anymore! IS-F? Yes, M3 has a stick; M3 is far more capable and faster; it is just way beyond in capabilities. But V8 with a stick? And a lower price? That vehicle would be immensely popular. But more importantly, it would sell regular models better. Bcs. people like to be part of something special, even though it is not exactly that model.
 
proveitwithdata said:
front clip is beautiful.
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lol the front of Lexus is the one thing I’m not a huge fan of. Looks like a rock in the evaporator or a trailer ball backing into you away from a really expensive and bad day. And since Lexus charges euro prices for Toyota parts (direct experience working on my brother’s Lexus badged FJZ80), that’s not good.
 
JHZR2 said:
lol the front of Lexus is the one thing I’m not a huge fan of. Looks like a rock in the evaporator or a trailer ball backing into you away from a really expensive and bad day. And since Lexus charges euro prices for Toyota parts (direct experience working on my brother’s Lexus badged FJZ80), that’s not good.
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sinister face is better then the prefresh imo. These days parts costs on anything with an exposed adas and led headlights is wallet crushing.
 
JHZR2 said:
lol the front of Lexus is the one thing I’m not a huge fan of. Looks like a rock in the evaporator or a trailer ball backing into you away from a really expensive and bad day. And since Lexus charges euro prices for Toyota parts (direct experience working on my brother’s Lexus badged FJZ80), that’s not good.
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1704564747635.jpg
 
been on life support for a long time, third gen came out at the wrong time and got blown away.

second gen was a very competitive product, hands down better than the w204 c-class all around but never could outdrive the e90 3-series. isf was a real performer as well
 
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