Kendall GT-1 Full SYN Dexos verse non-Dexos

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After much searching (on this site and others), I have not been able to find a definitive explanation and so I hope to elicit the professional knowledge of our oil experts here. I know there are opinions on brands, additives, etc and I am by no means an oil expert. I am an automotive repair shop however and very conscientious of what I offer my customers (type and specs). My rule has always been that I do not sell what I will not use in my own vehicles.

The story - I previously carried Kendall GT-1 Blend with Titanium in 5w-30 and 5w-20; and I use M1 for the 5w-30 DEXOS, 0W-20 Honda/Toyota and 0W-40 for the VW 502.00 spec cars. No issues but buying M1 in the quantities I use is cumbersome; and carrying 0W-20 and 5W-20 seems redundant.

Recently in an effort to give my customers the best oil (pricing is not a factor) and reduce the number of oils I carry, I decided to switch to Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic with liquid titanium. I purchased a drum of 5W-30 and 0W-20 which covers 90% - I still have some odd applications where I need specific oil but again those two drums if I did my research correct, will cover 90% of what I do.

The two issues I came up with (and no one including my salesman can sufficiently answer) - am I doing a disservice by putting the GT-1 Full Synthetic 0W-20 with Titanium in every vehicle calling for 5W-20 - thereby covering both grades with one product. Common applications of course being Honda, Toyota, '15 and newer GM for the 0W and Ford/Chrysler still pushing 5W on several applications.
And what seems to be more of an issue - I had the choice between GT-1 full synthetic DEXOS or GT-1 full-synthetic with Liquid Titanium but not DEXOS. When asked, it was basically explained that the Titanium version is as good or better than the DEXOS, the only difference is that GM will not license an oil with additives they have not approved (Titanium). I researched and found Castrol with Titanium is Dexos licensed so that argument is out and when I mentioned that, I had no response. I am not anti-GM (previous employee in fact) but I find it difficult to think that oil not labeled DEXOS is not as good (obviously defined in several different ways). So in short, can I put the non-Dexos Titanium ladened oil in or should I get DEXOS even though more than half of my customers are not GM vehicles. I def am not carrying a drum of 5W-30 DEXOS and 5W-30 Titanium so which is better for all of my vehicles?? (GM dealer warranty push back is not a factor either).

Many thanks in advance for your anticipated responses and time.
 
It is likely the amount of Titanium, Kendall uses a significant amount compared to Castrol.

0w-20 works in vehicles that spec 5w-20, no issues there.

It is highly unlikely that using it in GM vehicles would make any difference over Kendall's specially formulated Dexos 1 oil, but IF by chance one of your GM customers had an engine warranty denied you might be setting yourself up for a potential liability.
 
Looking at the list that my fuel supplier gives me. Only their dexos oil is approved. Nothing else is.

I also believe their dexos oil is a synthetic blend not full synthetic.
 
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Right now Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic is my personal "oil of interest" given that I have just discovered a local importer who will sell it to me for a decent price (for Oz).

I have been studying their spec sheets for awhile, and it looks like a good quality full synthetic oil to me. They don't say, but I would guess mostly Group 3 going by it's Pour Point.

I've also spent a bit of time going over the 5 page dexos spec sheet in a Afton handbook. I don't see any mention of Titanium (Ti) limits, but to be dexos it needs sulphated ash (SA) at 1.0 or less. If you look at the Kendall PDS, the 5W-30 with Ti has a SA of 1.02, so it can't be dexos (by a very small amount). The Ti 5W-30 also has a nice high TBN of 8.6 and a HTHS of 3.0 cP.

The kendall dexos 5W-30 has a TBN of 7.9 a HTHS of 3.2 and a SA of 0.92. These figures interestingly enough, are exactly the same as the Sinclair dexos 5W-30. I suspect, the most cost effective way for a smaller company to get their oil dexos compliant is to buy an off-the-shelf add pack from one of the big additive companies, and this is what both Sinclair and Kendall did. Castrol on the other hand has enough money to develop their own special additive package and get it formally tested.

So to answer your question. I think both the Ti 5W-30 and the dexos 5W-30 are excellent oils. The Ti oil has the extra Titanium anti-wear / anti-oxidant additive and higher TBN. The dexos oil has a higher HTHS with a lower SA. Both are winners and both bring something to the party. I would go the dexos oil, as it is a sign of quality that many people know and trust.
 
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer

0w-20 works in vehicles that spec 5w-20, no issues there.



Yes I agree, I would go the 0W-20 over the 5W-20. Both are full synthetics with the same HTHS (2.6) and the same add pack (850ppm Zn, 100ppm Ti, 8.0 TBN). But the 0W-20 has the better cold cranking figures.
 
Now thinking more about which 5W-30 to order, given they are both full synthetics, I would order the Dexos 5W-30.

Because HTHS is the first line of wear protection, and the Dexos oil has a HTHS of 3.2, while the Ti oil has a HTHS of 3.0 in the 5W-30. I always prefer a higher rather than a lower HTHS for the grade, more protection.

The Zinc and Titanium both have the same job, anti-oxidant and anti-wear when the oil film breaks. I read an article about the Kendall Ti additive and the reason behind it was to do the job of zinc but without going over the Phosphorous limits. But both oils still have a full dose of Zinc, which is generally considered enough for regular applications. I don't think more Zinc (or Ti) protects more, it just lasts longer as it's used up in a high wear engine (anybody can please correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think it's a real concern with modern engines.

The Titanium sounds cool, but I think the higher HTHS is your first line of defence. Plus I think many people now days look for that Dexos spec as a sign of quality.
 
Thank you very much for the replies and great information - several points were brought up that I never thought of. SR5 thank you for the in-depth, exactly what I was looking for. This is exactly my issue - I do not service GM exclusively and so between the two, which is better. Selfishly, I have a 3.5 Ford Ecoboost F150 and I think of that particularly tough application when choosing. I agree, DEXOS is universally known and brings a sense of peace when deciding. I think that is the way I will go.

As a side note to SR5 because I like learning about this stuff - HTHS was a great point.. I looked back and see what you mean and would agree. But then curiosity got the better of me and I looked at M1 - 3.1 and M1EP which is 3.0. I use both interchangeably depending whats in stock when I purchase - so the question I just have to ask, while I agree that 3.2 is better than 3.0, by how much would you think. Is it a matter of splitting hairs given the quality of oils - again merely curious as I do not know that much on oils and do not know how much .2 on HTHS is considered?
 
I have a friend who works as a Tech at a Chevy dealer. They do not carry 5W-20 - they use AC Delco 0W-20 blend (Dexos1) in any vehicle specified for 5W-20....and also use the same in the new trucks which require 0W-20. The only synthetic they carry is M1 in quarts - both 5W-30 & 0W-20.
 
I would run a non-DEXOS oil in a GM engine if I had it, in fact, I know people who do. IMO, just carry the one with DEXOS approval & it's completely okay to use 0W-20 in 5W-20 vehicles also. Go right ahead, your customers will be happy.
 
Hi Bernie,

If you look at the Kendall spec sheets, the 5W-20 has a HTHS of 2.6 and the 5W-30 has a HTHS of 3.0 cP. These are fairly typical values, but sometimes from other oils you see 2.7 and 3.1 respectively.

So, in HTHS terms, the difference in a 20 wt versus a 30 wt (ILSAC) is about 0.4 cP. To me a change in HTHS of 0.2 is significant, it's about half a grade in these ILSAC oils.

Once you get to a HTHS of 3.5 you are in Euro grade A3/B3/B4 oil territory, and you will never be an ILSAC or Dexos oil. The new M1 0W-40 FS has a HTHS of 3.6 cP.

At this end of the HTHS spectrum a 0.2 cP increase is a decent step forward, and to be honest I was quite surprised when I saw the dexos 5w-30 was 3.2, as I was expecting it to be 3.0 to 3.1 cP. I was impressed with 3.2, I may have missed it, but I have never seen a 3.3 HTHS ILSAC oil, so this 3.2 has got to be close to top of the pecking order. (Happy to be correct here by others).

I do like how you are taking the time to look after your business by getting your numerous oil stock choices under control and I like how you are looking after your customers to try and find them a high quality oil you are proud to use. If we didn't live at opposites sides of the globe, I would happy give you my car to service (with Dexos 5W-30) as you obviously care about what you do.

With your turbo Ecoboost, yes I hear they are hard on oil. I think you need two things, a synthetic oil to handle the heat and a HTHS reserve to handle the shear. There have been some papers posted here, that show HTHS shears at about half the rate of kinematic viscosity. So if your viscosity shears down by 10% then your HTHS will drop by about 5%. The higher the starting HTHS, the higher your HTHS reserve and the longer an oil protects (given good TBN etc).

I mentioned before, I became interested in Kendall oil when I found it available locally. I asked about the dexos oil, but it was only sold in 200 L drums. A bit too much for me. However they had the full synthetic GT-1 10W-30 with titanium available in 12 Qt pack, which is fine. I like the 10W-30 as it sort of splits the difference between the two 5W-30s. It has a HTHS of 3.1, TBN of 8.0, SA of 0.96, Zinc 850 ppm and Ti 100ppm. I live in a warm climate, so 10W is fine for me. Plus going by similar products from Sinclair you would expect a noack volatility of about 6 to 7 %, nice !!

Here are a few links for you
PQIA_Kendall5W30_SemiSyn

Titanium_in_ConocoPhillips_oils

All the best.
 
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Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer


It is highly unlikely that using it in GM vehicles would make any difference over Kendall's specially formulated Dexos 1 oil, but IF by chance one of your GM customers had an engine warranty denied you might be setting yourself up for a potential liability.


Is there any appreciable evidence that GM has denied warranties over the dexos1 issue? I have searched and searched, and while there are all kinds of concerns that they might, I have not seen any real evidence that they have. And since my owners manual says dexos1 "recommended" for my Chevy pickup, and not "required", I am not sure they would have much to stand on if the oil laid claim to being dexos1 compliant without actually being on the dexos1 "approved" list. And you add the GM TSB a year or two ago, that stated ILSAC GF-5 synthetic would be acceptable if dexos1 not available. It just seems that a lot of folks might be worrying just a bit too much about the warranty issue over dexos1 while there is no appreciable evidence that they need to.
 
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act would require the dealer to PROVE the filter/oil did the damage to the engine. Just by not having a "DEXOS1 Approved Oil or a non AC Delco filter" doesnt void anything.
The "GM Rep" who just slammed the hood and denied the claim because of a non AC Delco filter either A) Didnt happen and is internet lore or B) No longer works for GM because the lawsuits cost them way too much to employ his ignorant self.
 
I run Kendall GT-1 10-30 Blend in my Holden Monaro w/408 Stroker motor. Beast loves the stuff.
I ran Shaeffers forever but the Kendall works really well for us in it also.
 
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
I run Kendall GT-1 10-30 Blend in my Holden Monaro w/408 Stroker motor. Beast loves the stuff.
I ran Shaeffers forever but the Kendall works really well for us in it also.


Very Nice !! A V8 Holden Monaro running Kendall GT-1 10W30.

Is the car badged "Holden" ?

Here is an ad for a '71 HQ

71HQMonaro-MonaroGTSsinglepageBroch.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
I run Kendall GT-1 10-30 Blend in my Holden Monaro w/408 Stroker motor. Beast loves the stuff.
I ran Shaeffers forever but the Kendall works really well for us in it also.


Very Nice !! A V8 Holden Monaro running Kendall GT-1 10W30.

Is the car badged "Holden" ?

Here is an ad for a '71 HQ

71HQMonaro-MonaroGTSsinglepageBroch.jpg


No its was badged as a Pontiac GTO. I always said I would badge her as what she really is some day but got sorta sidetracked with her:)
V1Redline001_zpsae00858c.jpg

amsoilfilter2Medium.jpg

Zaino005.jpg


She flat our gets after it. I have waaayyy tooo much money in her but I do enjoy it.

Back on topic....I find Kendall GT-1 the best kept secret out there. Heck I just order four cases Tuesday and UPS just delivered them .....did I mention free shipping? I am a big Schaeffers fan but find myself using the Kendall more and more. Good stuff for sure.
Edit: I think I may have voided the warranty just a tad
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: TheOnlySarge
Originally Posted By: SR5

A V8 Holden Monaro

Is the car badged "Holden" ?

No its was badged as a Pontiac GTO. I always said I would badge her as what she really is some day but got sorta sidetracked with her:)


That's very good of you, it's nice to show the world what they really are.

The front end should look something like this.

18686d1148685853-my-vz-cv8-monaro-pic00142edit.jpg
 
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