Is this amount of crud in an oil filter normal? What’s in your filter?

[VolvoZ]

Acquired a fairly well maintained 2004 Volvo S80 turbo from a friend. It was reasonably well cared for in terms of oil changes during friend’s ownership (oil changes ranged from 3K-8K miles intervals) from about 50K miles to 219K miles. I think he used Mobil1 early in ownership, but then started “letting it go” with syn-blends and whatever the garages that he went to used. So at 219K i changed the oil with a cheapie API brand cartridge filter and 5.5 qts of Delo 400LE CJ-4/SM Synthetic 5W-40. Car now sits at 223K miles, so i decided to just do a filter change, add Rislone HM treatment, and put in a new cheapie API filter (got these from RockAuto for about $1.40 each). The idea here was to see what the Rislone HM will do in the next 2000 miles, vs. what just the motor oil was able to clean up in 4000 miles just completed. I was quite surprised at the amount of crud collected in the filter pleats at 4K miles (keep in mind, the filter pics are before adding the Rislone). I’ll be adding another 2K miles now that the Rislone is in there, and will be inspecting the new filter to see what the Rislone “pulls” out of the engine. I‘m guessing it won’t be pretty.

Is this amount of crud normal for 4K miles?

I don’t usually deconstruct my filters to look at the pleats (and crud) up close, but i could see the build up of crud settling on the bottom of the filter before even pulling it apart. Some of the ”cleaner looking” pleats probably look that way because i used a pick to pull out the crud before cutting open the filter. Anyone else care to post their filter crud (Along with any other info about the car, oil used, etc)?

 

[bullwinkle]

Looks like a good candidate for the HPL Engine Cleaner oil & some short filter runs. The worst one I have is the Express 6.0 LS in my sig, it always has a fair amount of carbon in the filter (guess original owner Hertz skimped on the oil/no Dexos). Less than yours, though.

 

[MRC01]

It's more gunk than I typically see in oil filters from air cooled piston aircraft engines. The key question is what kind of crud is it? Does it crush between your thumbnails? If so it's probably not a concern. If it's metal, what kind of metal? Is it ferrous?

PS: I agree with @bullwinkle that this amount of gunk suggests using a shorter OCI next time.

 

[The Artillerist]

May I ask, why use ersatz filter, that’s only 5 or so bucks away from one of a proper grade?

 

[wwillson]

No, this is not normal to see this much junk in an oil filter. @Astro14 may comment on the oil used vs. the required spec for this engine.

 

[VolvoZ]

It's more gunk than I typically see in oil filters from air cooled piston aircraft engines. The key question is what kind of crud is it? Does it crush between your thumbnails? If so it's probably not a concern. If it's metal, what kind of metal? Is it ferrous?

PS: I agree with @bullwinkle that this amount of gunk suggests using a shorter OCI next time.

I’ll check it out with gloved hands to see how chunky it is. Thanks for the suggestion. Using the pick to scrape into the pleats (before pulling the filter apart), then smearing the crud on a rag, it seemed ”muddy”, not hard chunky.

 

[The Artillerist]

No, this is not normal to see this much junk in an oil filter. @Astro14 may comment on the oil used vs. the required spec for this engine.

For a 20 year old car with 220,000 miles that was just filled with thermo-nuclear cleaning solution it might just be.


I had a V8 E class from the 80s that looked unvarnished under the valve covers and did not overly dirty the oil over a 5-7k mi oci.

For one of the oil changes I put an engine cleaner (liqui moly, idle 10 minutes) before draining old oil out. Then put in a fresh oil, idled for 10 minutes and drained it too. The new oil came out pitch black.

Over the years stuff tends to accumulate in the engine, and 99 out of 100 times it’s harmless. Like the scale in a kettle. The engine cleaner did get enough of the crud to turn fresh oil pitch black in 10 minutes of idling, from that otherwise pristinely running V8. There was NO DIFFERENCE however in that engines idling/running due to the use of cleaning agent.

Based on the above personal experience, I think OPs crud in the filter is par for the course — normal — for his car, given its age and mileage and is

 

[Astro14]

Same engine as five of my cars.

Your filter shows an engine with significant sludge.

That Delo would not be among my first choices for the engine, but it’s not terrible. Adding Rislone? Ugh. Why? It’s not going to clean any better. You just drive the viscosity range father from what is recommended.

Don’t buy cheap filters when really good filters are cheap.

For example: https://www.ipdusa.com/products/581...Washers-Kit-OX149D-Mahle-Volvo-1275810-977751

I’d recommend a PCV system check and if you’re going to try an clean this up, go slow.

 

[VolvoZ]

May I ask, why use ersatz filter, that’s only 5 or so bucks away from one of a proper grade?

Sure, go ahead and ask. Answer: because i am cheap, because i was curious what type of filter i would get for $1.40 (bought 10 of ‘em and they seem to be pretty good, so far), and because it’s a good application for a cheap car like this one. I actually use Mahles (mostly), some Carquest/Wix, and Hengst on my V70R.

 

[The Artillerist]

because i am cheap

Cheap people don’t buy 20 year old turbocharged Volvos with 220,000 miles — I thought .

I get your approach, I just wondered if there was some other rationale since you did spend on Ryslone, so I figured saving $5 on a filter might not be it

 

[VolvoZ]

Same engine as five of my cars.

Your filter shows an engine with significant sludge.

That Delo would not be among my first choices for the engine, but it’s not terrible. Adding Rislone? Ugh. Why? It’s not going to clean any better. You just drive the viscosity range father from what is recommended.

Don’t buy cheap filters when really good filters are cheap.

For example: https://www.ipdusa.com/products/581...Washers-Kit-OX149D-Mahle-Volvo-1275810-977751

I’d recommend a PCV system check and if you’re going to try a clean this up, go slow.

Agree that the Delo was not the best, but have about 30 qts on hand, and for the first oil change on a “questionable” car, i did not want to invest my good stuff in it until i got more comfortable with the car. At this point, i have sorted out a bunch of issues and it is cleaning up quite well (new LCA, sway bar links, CV joint boot, welded up exhaust leaks at flex pipe, and a bunch of other small fixes).

Will be doing the PCV system in a few weeks, along with new brushes for alternator, timing belt kit/water pump, coolant, radiator hoses and heater hoses. PCV system has NOT been replaced on this car, so expecting it is plugged up based on the oil filter sludge. Will post pictures of the oil return port behind the flame trap baffle. That should be interesting.

Any reason for the negative tone on the Rislone? I haven’t bought this sort of stuff in probably close to 35 years. Figured i would give it a try and see what it will do in terms of cleaning. If the next filter exam shows that it‘s similar to the ones pictured above, then i wasted $6. If the Rislone works, then maybe i should have used a Mahle. We’ll see.

Also, sorry to read about the dealer hack job on your R. Painful to read about it. My condolences.

 

[Astro14]

Agree that the Delo was not the best, but have about 30 qts on hand, and for the first oil change on a “questionable” car, i did not want to invest my good stuff in it until i got more comfortable with the car. At this point, i have sorted out a bunch of issues and it is cleaning up quite well (new LCA, sway bar links, CV joint boot, welded up exhaust leaks at flex pipe, and a bunch of other small fixes).

Will be doing the PCV system in a few weeks, along with new brushes for alternator, timing belt kit/water pump, coolant, radiator hoses and heater hoses. PCV system has NOT been replaced on this car, so expecting it is plugged up based on the oil filter sludge. Will post pictures of the oil return port behind the flame trap baffle. That should be interesting.

Any reason for the negative tone on the Rislone? I haven’t bought this sort of stuff in probably close to 35 years. Figured i would give it a try and see what it will do in terms of cleaning. If the next filter exam shows that it‘s similar to the ones pictured above, then i wasted $6. If the Rislone works, then maybe i should have used a Mahle. We’ll see.

Also, sorry to read about the dealer hack job on your R. Painful to read about it. My condolences.

Thank you for your kind words. I do appreciate it.

It sounds like you’ve got a good way ahead on this car. I just don’t know that Rislone does any good. But, from the way it pours out of the bottle, it has to be increasing the viscosity of the oil.

I suspect you have a plugged up flame trap system as well.

I hope you do come back and post pictures, I’d be very curious what they show.

With that much in the oil filter, if you’re able, I would do a pan drop as well, just don’t use any abrasive discs to clean off the old sealant!

 

[VolvoZ]

Cheap people don’t buy 20 year old turbocharged Volvos with 220,000 miles — I thought .

I get your approach, I just wondered if there was some other rationale since you did spend on Ryslone, so I figured saving $5 on a filter might not be it

I saved enough on the filter to buy the Rislone HM. We understand each other now.

 

[Oro_O]

I had the same result on the first OCI with a 2004 Volvo a few years ago, S60 for my step-son. I have had two other of these engines in the past, and one more currently (my daily).

The first OCI came out about like that, not quite as bad (136k IIRC); I did post it here. I had used LubeGard as a cleaner for the OCI. Subsequent OCIs had nothing in the pleats (also posted). My guess is it’s falling out of the PCV (“flame trap”) passages into the pan.

My understanding is that Rislone has solvents that will do some solvating quickly and then flash off, and leave behind the thin carrier. Not a lot of benefit and some harm. I like this as an additive:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7652624

2 oz/qt. In the initial use, then 1oz/1t each oci or with make up oil. That works, though since then they have upped the recommended usage (to 3 then 2, which is what they used to recommend for diesel engine use).

I was also going to mention doing some pressure tests or observations to check how the PCV system is. It’s a strong reason to use premium oil, low NOACK, etc. I use Mobil 1 10w-30 HM and LubeGard.

A good place I like for parts is RM European, they will have most all you need at good prices and quick delivery, IME. I get Mahle fitlers there cheaply, now that Ultra filters for these are $20 and I ran out of the ones I bought at $10.

Clean, swap fluid, and consider Lubegard for the AT and PS as they are weak points, but you likely know that I guess?

 

[VolvoZ]

It sounds like you’ve got a good way ahead on this car. I just don’t know that Rislone does any good. But, from the way it pours out of the bottle, it has to be increasing the viscosity of the oil.

The Rislone was actually quite thin viscosity-wise. Probably 20 to 30 weight. Not the Rislone of our youth. This was green with a sweet smell.

Pan drop will occur in the future, probably a year or so from now, at which point i will be retired with plenty of time on my hands. NOOOOOOOO abrasive disks will be used!

 

[VolvoZ]

I had the same result on the first OCI with a 2004 Volvo a few years ago, S60 for my step-son. I have had two other of these engines in the past, and one more currently (my daily).

The first OCI came out about like that, not quite as bad (136k IIRC); I did post it here. I had used LubeGard as a cleaner for the OCI. Subsequent OCIs had nothing in the pleats (also posted). My guess is it’s falling out of the PCV (“flame trap”) passages into the pan.

My understanding is that Rislone has solvents that will do some solvating quickly and then flash off, and leave behind the thin carrier. Not a lot of benefit and some harm. I like this as an additive:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7652624

2 oz/qt. In the initial use, then 1oz/1t each oci or with make up oil. That works, though since then they have upped the recommended usage (to 3 then 2, which is what they used to recommend for diesel engine use).

I was also going to mention doing some pressure tests or observations to check how the PCV system is. It’s a strong reason to use premium oil, low NOACK, etc. I use Mobil 1 10w-30 HM and LubeGard.

A good place I like for parts is RM European, they will have most all you need at good prices and quick delivery, IME. I get Mahle fitlers there cheaply, now that Ultra filters for these are $20 and I ran out of the ones I bought at $10.

Thanks for the tips and the RM Euro place suggestion. Never heard of them. Great!!! Now i have another web catalog to peruse in addition to RA, FCP Euro, IPD! Seem to have good pricing.

I do recall your oil change/engine clean up post. Will re-read it. What’s odd to me is why there is so much crud being released in such a short interval (4K miles). One would think that it would have been ”washing out” across all of the prior oil changes. Unless it has something to do with the heavier driving i have been doing (lots of highway runs) and more short trips that the previous owner was doing in the couple years prior to my ownership.

 

[Oro_O]

…

I do recall your oil change/engine clean up post. Will re-read it. What’s odd to me is why there is so much crud being released in such a short interval (4K miles). One would think that it would have been ”washing out” across all of the prior oil changes. Unless it has something to do with the heavier driving i have been doing (lots of highway runs) and more short trips that the previous owner was doing in the couple years prior to my ownership.

I don’t have a good answer for that either.

I pulled and checked the old filter; it had been a dealer change not too far back wrt to mileage, but years (car sat a lot for a few years). The filter in it didn’t look bad. But then I put in good oil + Lubegard, and it dumped a lot of crud in one OCI exactly like yours. Then, no more. I was concerned about the flame trap of course, kept an eye on it very closely in case I needed to go in there. But here we are ~30k miles later, car runs great, no issues, and I have quit worrying.

 

[billt460]

....Don’t buy cheap filters when really good filters are cheap......

That's a good line. I'm stealing it!

 

[demarpaint]

That looks to me like there is cleaning going on there, and needed considering all the crud you collected. Stay the course with the cleanup would be my advise..

 

[dlundblad]

My wife’s S60 2.4t looked about like that if not worse when I took over oil changes back when we were dating. The Mazda dealer she bought it from was just using a 5w30 semi synthetic.

I starting using Mobil 1 0w40 and have been ever since. The filter was loaded with crud for quite a few oil changes after, but each one seemed to progressively look better.

As said, check the PCV system. I thought hers wasn’t terrible, but I still had to do the camshaft seals a year later. The years are blending together. I think I did the PCV system in 2017. The seals needed done in 2018. It’s probably due for another inspection/ cleaning now.

I’d try the 0w40 and a Mann or Mahle filter. No need to the oil additive stuff.