Is higher weight oil in this heat a good idea?

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Rat407
All the vehicles running around in Phoenix AZ with 0w-20 in their sump are going to wear out quickly due to the extreme heat there. Maybe bithog should start a campaign there since it is so hot, to push 20w-50 so those individuals vehicles will last longer.


Strawman alert...strawmen NEVER help your argument.


A good cooling system can help with “extreme” temps … but not with extreme examples like 20w50 …
Seems many here were talking 20 or 30 with almost 200k on the clock …
Both Shannow and SR5 pointed out a 1.4T Cruze there runs a 40. Based on that and 90k I switched to 0w40 without asking opinions here since you always get this kind of stuff …
 
Originally Posted By: Tahoe4Life
I use only 20 in Miami. I ran 300K miles using 5w20 in a 2005 Crown Vic. That is in 24/7 nightmare traffic in Miami Beach with a/c constantly on. I only run 0w20 in my Tahoe. I do not see vehicles dropping dead on the side of the road using 20. Here in Miami it is hot all year long.

I wish this nonsense would stop about going to a higher oil grade oil [thinking it is better for your engine] because of summer heat.


Then why are the new Chevy trucks spec'd for 5W-30 instead of the previous 20W?
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Run 15 or 20w 50 in summer. Go back to 0w20 in winter.

Change weights seasonally, like in the "ole days".

I'm only running lightweight winter oil in the suburbans that need to start in the cold.





Recomending heavy grades as you have with a engine that has variable valve mechanisms borders on irresponsible. There is no need for such heavy weights and the OP should be able to run the same grade of oil year round.
 
Put my 5.4 3V Navigator through the seventh circle of Hades towing in nasty Florida heat, well above tow rating.

Before I added an oil cooler, my phasers didn't like the thin oil (shoddy Ford oil pump design), but I never turned anything less than a stellar UOA.

If your phasers are acting fine, you won't get any benefit at all out of thicker oil. Nothing.
 
Honda calls for 0/20 or 5/20.in the us Go to shell Australia, look up the same engine as yours here. It says 1 of 2 weights, 5/30 for the v6, and 5/40 for the 2.4L engines. Proves what another poster is talking about Cafe Australia is no different than other climates here from. Coast to coast. Both of my Acura and Honda vehicles I use Castrol 0/40 both engines have VTEC, and when VTEC activates it's much smoother, idle is also much smoother in this summer heat with the AC on. Why? I believe with the heavier weight oil, the oil psi is lightly higher. At idle, as far as my gas mileage, absolutely no noticeable change even if it changed 1%, not going to even notice it
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
I use both 20 and 30 in my Sonata here in steamy hot Miami. Meh, no difference.


Funny the book for Sonatas calls for 5-20 yet when I took mine in for the listening test guess what they filled it with. 5-30. Me thinks they are more worried about oil dilution than CAFE numbers in these troublesome engines nowadays. I’ve always used 5-30 in ours and will continue to.
 
As someone running two Ford Modular V8s in extreme heat conditions (125+ ºF during daytime and 105 - 115 ºF at nighttime), here's my two cents.

Ford recommended 20W-40 in Middle East export engines up until 1995, when it discontinued Motorcraft 20W-40 and the recommendation was then changed to 10W-30 - the thickest grade of gasoline engine oil available from the Motorcraft brand up until 5W-50 full synthetic hit the shelves not that long ago. People have run various oil grades in Modular engines, including 15W-40 HDEO and 20W-50 of different varieties. For some people, 10W-60 and 20W-60 was the oil of choice. At the local dealership, 10W-30 is still the default standard for Modular V8s. I have even seen some folks requesting 5W-50 from their service advisers.

The 4.6L in my Expedition is bone stock, while the 4.6L in my Grand Marquis has a number of different modifications done to it and does, in comparison, run quite a bit hotter than the Expedition. The Grand Marquis is equipped with a 180 ºF thermostat, and the electric cooling fan was programmed to come on full blast when coolant temperature hits 206 ºF (stock form was 212 ºF). The Expedition has a clutched fan. Both run on Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40 with a Fram Ultra XG2. Coolant wise, they're running 30% G13 to 70% distilled water. A 50/50 ratio may provide a higher boiling point, but it also causes the coolant to run between 15 – 18 ºF hotter. While I cannot get engine oil temperature readings on my ScanGauge-II's that both vehicles are equipped with, cylinder head temperature and coolant temperature is something I continuously monitor, and base my driving style on.

As the Grand Marquis is modified, I will limit my observations to the bone stock Expedition.

In general, coolant temperature readings are 2 ºF cooler than cylinder head temperatures. On any given summer day, coolant temperature at startup, after the engine has been sitting overnight, will generally be in the 105 - 120 ºF range depending on time of day. Operating temperature is often reached within 5-8 minutes, if not sooner (if you're firing up the engine past noon). If you have driven the vehicle and parked it for a couple of hours, 8 hours in my case when I'm at work, coolant temperature at startup will be in the 115 - 130 ºF range at ~17:00 hrs.

Speed is a major factor when it comes to coolant temperature – go too fast, and higher engine RPMs will generate more heat. Go too slow, and decreased air flow through the radiator will generate more heat.

During the wee hours of the morning prior to 10:00 hrs, and after 17:00 hrs in the evening, ambient temperatures are between 113 – 120 ºF. If you’re on the road at these times, with the AC running and cruise control set between 50 - 60 MPH, coolant temperatures will generally hover between 206 – 211 ºF. Between 60 - 75 MPH on cruise, you're looking at 211 – 218 ºF. Once you hit 80+ MPH, you’re up to at least 222 – 226 ºF. If you’re stuck in traffic, the lowest coolant temperature tends to be 213 ºF and can go right up to 230 ºF – sometimes higher. I generally find myself turning off the air conditioning for a few couple of minutes at a time, until coolant temperatures drop, before turning it back on again – Hüper Optic’s X3 tint is a lifesaver at this point.

If you happen to be on the road between 10:00 – ~16:00 hrs, ambient temperatures will often exceed 125 ºF. I prefer not to experiment with coolant temperature readings at different engine loads/speeds at these times, and rather maintain a speed of 55 – 60 MPH on cruise. Coolant temperatures will hover between the 215 – 220 ºF mark at these speeds, and depending on traffic, may raise to between 224 – 232 ºF for several minutes at a time. I prefer not to turn off the air conditioning during these hours, but with the AC clutch disengaged, coolant temperature drop much quicker to an acceptable (212 – 215 ºF) range.

Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40 if a full SAPS oil meeting A3/B4, LongLife-01, MB Sheet 229.5 and VW 502.00/505.00 in addition to Porsche A40. It has a HTHS of 3.7 cP and a flash point of 446 ºF with a NOACK is 9.9%.Viscosity at 100 ºC (212 ºF) is 14.2 cSt.

In comparison, according to Motorcraft Chemicals and Lubricants U.S. Catalog Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5W-20 has a viscosity of 8.7 cSt at 100 ºC (212 ºF) and according to a PQIA test done on 03-06-2017, a NOACK of 14.6%. HTHS will be < 3.5 cP, which I recall to be around 2.6 cP.

Given the temperatures my engines see, I would not want 5W-20 (even as a full synthetic) in my sump. YMMV.
 
Originally Posted By: Driz
Originally Posted By: wemay
I use both 20 and 30 in my Sonata here in steamy hot Miami. Meh, no difference.


Funny the book for Sonatas calls for 5-20 yet when I took mine in for the listening test guess what they filled it with. 5-30.


Funny that the manuals still recommend, guess what first...5w20. I guess their level of worry isn't as great aa some would like to believe.

I'm ok with either viscosity.
 
I had a F150 with the 4.2 the cap said 5w30 but a mechanic friend said at some time Ford made a change and was stating 5w20 would be the newer spec'd oil mainly for fuel economy. I stuck with the 5w30

Unless you're manual tells you that different weight oil can be used at different operating temperatures, I'd stick with what's recommended. In most cases manuals may say a substitute if the recommended weight is not available but should be changed at a sooner time.
 
Whatever the dealer gets in bulk for less, as long as they filled it any problems is on them. But 5w30/5w20 ok weight they may use 5w20 during winter months.
 
It's been 95*F the last week. That isn't hot!
grin.gif


The humidity has been what's the killer.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
It's been 95*F the last week. That isn't hot!
grin.gif


The humidity has been what's the killer.


Same here, the humidity sucks!!
 
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: Rat407
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: Rat407
I say follow the owners manual. Other wise why do they even bother to print it if nobody will follow it.


Please see the numerous threads on CAFE, mpg, and US oil specifications for your answer.


So the manual should read if you want to meet CAFE requirements and get better MPG then use the recommended 5w-20, otherwise run what you feel is best for your vehicle in your environment that makes you fee warm and fluffy inside.

That should about cover it.

All the vehicles running around in Phoenix AZ with 0w-20 in their sump are going to wear out quickly due to the extreme heat there. Maybe bithog should start a campaign there since it is so hot, to push 20w-50 so those individuals vehicles will last longer.


Ouch I just hurt my ocular nerve from rolling my eyes so far back. Not what I am saying at all, just trying to avoid putting the same information and debate from those threads here. Sorry that my post caused such a knee-jerk reaction; I cannot cure your lack of perspective, only you can do that so please go and actually do some reading.


Not meant to be harsh, but it gets old when a vehicle is spec'ed for a 20w and everyone jumps and recommends a 30w or 40w. Just follow the owners manual. If the owners manual states you can use a 5w-30 between certain temps then fine, read the manual and move on. That is what it is for. Again, in the heat of south Florida and Arizona all the vehicles mainly Toyota's and Honda's for the most part since they have spec'ed 0w-20 for a while now are doing just fine on that oil.

I know individuals come on here looking for suggestions, but it seems the majority jump right to, "you would be better running a 30w" mentality. I like the K.I.S. method. Keep it simple. The more the uninformed come on here and see that everyone recommends a 30w in a vehicle that is supposed to run a 20w will think they are doing something wrong because they trust the advice they see on here.

Maybe more post on this should read like this,

You will be fine running what your manufacutre recommends. Follow the owners manual and all will be well. Going to a heavier weight will not hurt anything but there is no need to do so.

Not,

Go to a 30w since you live where it is hot, it will better protect and run better.

Or,

Go to a 30w since you live where it is hot, it will better protect and run better and then in the winter switch back.
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Then why are the new Chevy trucks spec'd for 5W-30 instead of the previous 20W?


This makes me wonder if thicker oils are making a comeback. Have car companies figured out that thicker oils do in fact protect better? Someone here mentioned Shell Australia's lube match specs 5W40 for the Honda Accord,and it does,they recommend Shell Helix 5W40. All this keeps making me wonder if I should switch my Accord to 5W30. I found this old article that was interesting:
http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=3965
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Originally Posted By: Tahoe4Life
I use only 20 in Miami. I ran 300K miles using 5w20 in a 2005 Crown Vic. That is in 24/7 nightmare traffic in Miami Beach with a/c constantly on. I only run 0w20 in my Tahoe. I do not see vehicles dropping dead on the side of the road using 20. Here in Miami it is hot all year long.

I wish this nonsense would stop about going to a higher oil grade oil [thinking it is better for your engine] because of summer heat.


Then why are the new Chevy trucks spec'd for 5W-30 instead of the previous 20W?


Again, I said follow the owners manual. So will every one on here now recommend the new 0w-40 because it is allowed in the new Corvette and the truck engines are basically the same?

I have not seen what the new trucks recommend using other than the new diesel that is going in the 1500's and it is a WAIT FOR IT, OMG 0w-20!
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Then why are the new Chevy trucks spec'd for 5W-30 instead of the previous 20W?


This makes me wonder if thicker oils are making a comeback. Have car companies figured out that thicker oils do in fact protect better? Someone here mentioned Shell Australia's lube match specs 5W40 for the Honda Accord,and it does,they recommend Shell Helix 5W40. All this keeps making me wonder if I should switch my Accord to 5W30.


I think so, and I think it is possible the cost of warranty claims in some instances is exceeding the savings in CAFE credits.
27.gif
Bottom line we will never know for sure. Obviously there's a reason, and I'm thinking it might have something to do with one grade protecting better than the other in instances where the change back to a 'thicker' grade was made.
 
I have a tired old noisy 5.4 and a bunch of 5w-40. I ran it through the winter with no issues and am currently running it through the summer!

The passenger side head on these engines does have some really small oil passages, though.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Then why are the new Chevy trucks spec'd for 5W-30 instead of the previous 20W?


This makes me wonder if thicker oils are making a comeback. Have car companies figured out that thicker oils do in fact protect better? Someone here mentioned Shell Australia's lube match specs 5W40 for the Honda Accord,and it does,they recommend Shell Helix 5W40. All this keeps making me wonder if I should switch my Accord to 5W30.


I think so, and I think it is possible the cost of warranty claims in some instances is exceeding the savings in CAFE credits.
27.gif
Bottom line we will never know for sure. Obviously there's a reason, and I'm thinking it might have something to do with one grade protecting better than the other in instances where the change back to a 'thicker' grade was made.


In the Expedition owners manual I had there was a little * that said if GVW is going over 8000 towing 10w30 should be used.
That to me says it all!
There can be no misinterpreting that, they could have wrote, "if the truck is going to do any work other than lumber around at low rpm and engine load it needs better protection" but inquisitive minds might put 2+2 together.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Then why are the new Chevy trucks spec'd for 5W-30 instead of the previous 20W?


This makes me wonder if thicker oils are making a comeback. Have car companies figured out that thicker oils do in fact protect better? Someone here mentioned Shell Australia's lube match specs 5W40 for the Honda Accord,and it does,they recommend Shell Helix 5W40. All this keeps making me wonder if I should switch my Accord to 5W30.


I think so, and I think it is possible the cost of warranty claims in some instances is exceeding the savings in CAFE credits.
27.gif
Bottom line we will never know for sure. Obviously there's a reason, and I'm thinking it might have something to do with one grade protecting better than the other in instances where the change back to a 'thicker' grade was made.


In the Expedition owners manual I had there was a little * that said if GVW is going over 8000 towing 10w30 should be used.
That to me says it all!
There can be no misinterpreting that, they could have wrote, "if the truck is going to do any work other than lumber around at low rpm and engine load it needs better protection" but inquisitive minds might put 2+2 together.


thumbsup2.gif
 
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