Is arming teachers the answer?

[bbhero]

I don't think teachers should be doing that either.... They got enough to do without having to do that. Having stated that I am in total favor of professionally trained armed security in those places where young people are.



Now... Let me ask these questions....


Are there armed security people at the Super Bowl???

Are there armed security people at a NASCAR event??

Are there armed security people at the World Series games??

Are there security personnel at your lovely "party" events like a National convention??? To protect the people there and your lovely candidate??


I would say the answer to all of these events I'd a resounding YES....

So.... Why have a large gathering of young people with ZERO armed security?? Like at that school of 3k plus young people...

Ohh well. .. let them try to make it until ARMED police show up... In that time frame how many are taken out??

You see a problem here??? Yeah. It's called a massive double standard.... So just let any other large gathering of young people try to make it until someone else shows up...

 

[KrisZ]

ZZman, I have a feeling your views about the matter are probably based on the European system. If so, I suggest you go to Europe and see for yourself how their utopia is working out with the recent arrival of the "war refugees" or "migrants". Or at least watch some youtube videos filmed by the local residents (yes you have to resort to that, since no media outlet dares to show the truth).Pperhaps you will grow to appreciate the rights you take for granted and even want them taken away.

 

[FordBroncoVWJeta]

I just got out of HS last year. I still pretty sure I can think of 3 teachers I thought that packed... One teacher kinda hinted he did...

 

[MuzzleFlash40]

The problem with "uniformed" personel is that the criminals know who to shoot first. Have select people with a weapon concealed is the way to go. The criminals don't know who are armed and since they are cowards will likely not choose that location.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I would rather see laws and changes that would try to reduce it in the first place.


Murder is already illegal and generally carries the strongest penalties among all crimes. What additional laws do you propose that will be a more effective deterrent?



As long as we continue to focus on the HOW and not the WHY this will sadly continue.


I have many possible solutions to reduce it:

1. Ban handguns and assault style rifles
2. Magazine capacity limit
3. Background checks on all sales
4. I like the 21 yrs old age for any firearm
5. Hire more ATF and FBI agents
6. Better mental health system and reporting
7. Better laws on domestic terrorist threats (like threatening to shoot many people/ or schools etc)
8. Mandatory gun safes

I am sure I could think of more.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Israel suffered from school massacres. They armed the teachers. No more school massacres. There has been two school attacks since they armed the teachers, and the teachers killed the attackers both times.

Yes it's a good idea. Very few teachers would want to carry. But the ones that want to, should be allowed to. It's additional security in the schools at minimal cost. The teachers are already there every day. The teachers that want to carry, already own a gun. The local police dept would train them for free or low cost. Anyone against this has zero grasp on reality.


Everything I could find said they use armed guards.


That will work too. Armed guards, and armed teachers, only if they want to carry and can pass muster with the gun.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
The problem with "uniformed" personel is that the criminals know who to shoot first. Have select people with a weapon concealed is the way to go. The criminals don't know who are armed and since they are cowards will likely not choose that location.


I wouldn't call them cowards. They plan on dying at the hands of the police or killing themselves.

 

[Donald]

When the police get to a school in the middle of a school shooting, the last thing they want to come up against is a shootout where they need to figure out who is a good guy and who is a bad guy.

Train teachers to teach and let the police deal with the criminals.

 

[PeterPolyol]

If society in general talked, thought about or 'conjured' the idea of "firearms" (in any context) as much as they do "Limburger cheese", we probably wouldn't have a problem at all. Just saying

 

[goodtimes]

No. This is a whole new level of attacking. No civilian should have these weapons capabilities. Do they have gun ownership by the public in Israel like here? No, there is no right to bear arms there. That is a bogus argument that keeps on. My daughter is a teacher and the schools are pretty secure in her district. No one comes onto campus randomly. They can have trained personnel more that seems more logical.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Donald
When the police get to a school in the middle of a school shooting, the last thing they want to come up against is a shootout where they need to figure out who is a good guy and who is a bad guy.

Train teachers to teach and let the police deal with the criminals.


I agree. (School Police)
We just need to hire and train more of them.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
ZZman, I have a feeling your views about the matter are probably based on the European system. If so, I suggest you go to Europe and see for yourself how their utopia is working out with the recent arrival of the "war refugees" or "migrants". Or at least watch some youtube videos filmed by the local residents (yes you have to resort to that, since no media outlet dares to show the truth).Pperhaps you will grow to appreciate the rights you take for granted and even want them taken away.


There is no utopia including here. But the fact is our murder rate is much higher here than in other similar countries. Wanting to reduce it is a problem? What rights would I really lose in other 1st world countries similar to us?

 

[Nick1994]

Say since Israel has armed teachers there's no school shootings, everyone's in agreement.

Say since Australia has had tough gun laws there's no school shootings, everyone loses their minds.

As i said in the other post I've been a student for 19 years, have had over 100 teachers, only two of them would I trust with a gun, they were Marines. The rest I'd be terrified to be around. Sorry but teachers are kind of stupid sometimes.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Say since Israel has armed teachers there's no school shootings, everyone's in agreement.

Say since Australia has had tough gun laws there's no school shootings, everyone loses their minds.

As i said in the other post I've been a student for 19 years, have had over 100 teachers, only two of them would I trust with a gun, they were Marines. The rest I'd be terrified to be around. Sorry but teachers are kind of stupid sometimes.


EXCELLENT POST!

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I would rather see laws and changes that would try to reduce it in the first place.


Murder is already illegal and generally carries the strongest penalties among all crimes. What additional laws do you propose that will be a more effective deterrent?



As long as we continue to focus on the HOW and not the WHY this will sadly continue.


I have many possible solutions to reduce it:

1. Ban handguns and assault style rifles
2. Magazine capacity limit
3. Background checks on all sales
4. I like the 21 yrs old age for any firearm
5. Hire more ATF and FBI agents
6. Better mental health system and reporting
7. Better laws on domestic terrorist threats (like threatening to shoot many people/ or schools etc)
8. Mandatory gun safes

I am sure I could think of more.


Absolutely no mention of Parents who fail miserably at teaching their kids some morals and values. I see complete denial of the real issue.

 

[demarpaint]

I was flipping channels and heard it takes the police about eight minutes on average to arrive at a school during a crisis like a one of these massacres. Eight minutes can be an eternity huddled up in a classroom praying your class isn't next. If my son were still in school I'd want metal detectors, armed guards, and teachers that were armed and trained to shoot. There's a good chance that in the eight minutes it takes the police to get to the school the shooter would be dead, making their job a lot easier.

 

[MuzzleFlash40]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Donald
When the police get to a school in the middle of a school shooting, the last thing they want to come up against is a shootout where they need to figure out who is a good guy and who is a bad guy.

Train teachers to teach and let the police deal with the criminals.


I agree. (School Police)
We just need to hire and train more of them.




So you are saying that i'm to stupid to make that assessment when I respond? Or that I am smarter than school staff that I can somehow be trained to shoot but they cannot? We can banter back and forth until the cows come home. But I've been in law enforcement for over 12 years and my opinion is that we need armed staf in schools. IF that means teachers than so be it.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
In my opinion it would be of little value. I also prefer teachers to teach not be security guards.

I think the few that would be comfortable to carry would most likely only be willing to use their weapon in self defense of themselves or their class. They would not seek out a shooter to stop them. They could also become targets themselves from police thinking they are the shooter.

Also in a time of high stress missing your target is highly likely.

I don't honestly think the thought of teachers armed would stop anyone either. They usually plan on dying in the incident regardless.

Your thoughts? Thoughts from our neighbor to the north?


We have a protest of another type here … teachers with CCL’s park on the street since they are not allowed on campus … these are country folks who had guns in their hands since they were 10 and would like to have them on campus … are they as effective as an actual LEO? Probably not ~ but are easier to train than in other places … and we only have one officer per campus. What’s important is the design and policy of the schools … single point entry and electronic security doors to hallways.
No perimeter access … I was born in a Maltese cross designed hospital … that’s not a bad way to build and protect a school … and we can also look at upgrading security in older buildings … some of us might have better security at work than our kids do

BTW … “Visitors NOT Welcome” …

 

[2004tdigls]

and give them bump stocks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCx1rgxXVKA

what an insane country

or how about a sandbagged

50 bmg in the play area

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/category/firearms/rifles/50-bmg.do

totally insane

all I can say, look at Australia before and after gun control

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/australia-gun-control/541710/

The number of mass shootings in Australia—defined as incidents in which a gunman killed five or more people other than himself, which is notably a higher casualty count than is generally applied for tallying mass shootings in the U.S.—dropped from 13 in the 18-year period before 1996 to zero after the Port Arthur massacre. Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively, though these declines appear to have since leveled off. Two academics who have studied the impact of the reform initiative estimate that the gun-buyback program saves at least 200 lives each year, according to The New York Times.

but you machine gun lunatics would never accept your "rights" being violated for the sake of children's lives

 

[benhen77]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Israel suffered from school massacres. They armed the teachers. No more school massacres. There has been two school attacks since they armed the teachers, and the teachers killed the attackers both times.

Yes it's a good idea. Very few teachers would want to carry. But the ones that want to, should be allowed to. It's additional security in the schools at minimal cost. The teachers are already there every day. The teachers that want to carry, already own a gun. The local police dept would train them for free or low cost. Anyone against this has zero grasp on reality.


I'm sure it helps that Israel has conscription, so more of their overall population has intensive military training already. I'm not sure the average American teacher, much like the average Americans is capable of doing any good in a survival scenario. I'm not against having extra staff on hand to deal with security, or a trained administrator, but leave them out of the hands of teachers.