how to quiet Civic engine

[dinosauract]

I have a 2005 Civic VP with about 15k miles on the odometer. Its valvetrain is quite noisy. In fact I had the dealer check the clearances and all were right in the middle of the spec. They felt the noise was normal, for what that's worth.

I left the factory oil in until 5k, then went with the dealer's bulk dino (I believe its Chevron), then tried Mobil 1 and then Pennzoil Platinum), each at roughly 5k intervals, all 5W20. The engine has been somewhat noisy on all of them, but noticeably worse with the Mobil 1 and especially the Platinum. I haven't had any oil analyses done yet because I though that normal break in would probably dominate the results anyway. Its probably time to do one. The car runs very well and uses no oil that I can detect.

I'd like to quiet this engine a bit. I'm thinking of going to Havoline with the next change. Perhaps the higher moly content will help? I'm also thinking of using a blend of 5W20 and 5W30. As the valvetrain is actually quieter when cold than when warm, I'm thinking a slightly higher viscsity may help. Although I realize the reported viscosity data is a typical not an absolute number, it appears I could blend 1.4 qts. of 5W30 and 2 qts of 5W20 and still meet the viscosity spec of 5W20 oil. Or I could simply try 5W30.

Does this sound reasonable or does anyone have any other suggestions? I live in Central PA so temps are pretty chilly right now, but it will get hot in the summer - I'm hoping this doesn't make the engine noisier.

 

[speedtc]

Go back to dino.

 

[tuong]

when I put 0-30 in my engine, it got louder fyi. i dont think you should be concern

 

[steveh]

Could the noise be from the fuel injectors and not the valvetrain?

 

[m2200b]

VSOT - try 1 oz per gt oil capacity first. That keeps you in 20W. I'd try Havoline since both the VSOT and Havoline give you moly which has some effect on dual cam gear noise.

I'd guess you would get a good UOA by next change.

 

[dinosauract]

quote:

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Could the noise be from the fuel injectors and not the valvetrain?

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I thought about that possibility, not sure exactly how I could differentiate. It certainly sounds like valve noise to me, but I could be wrong.

quote:

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VSOT - try 1 oz per gt oil capacity first. That keeps you in 20W. I'd try Havoline since both the VSOT and Havoline give you moly which has some effect on dual cam gear noise

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Would there be any problem with adding the VSOT to the existing fill of Platinum? I think it would be interesting to do as I should easily be able to tell if it makes an improvement. I get a little nervous about adding things to synthetic.

I'm fairly certain I'm going back to Havoline dino at the next OCI. The dealer gives an $8 credit if you supply your own oil instead of using their bulk, and I can buy the Havoline for $1.38 / qt. This has to be the most difficult vehicle I've ever had to do an oil change on.

 

[Mike82]

DOes the noise only occur when you start it up on cold mornings and occur for a few minutes then go away If so, it's likely just a noisy valve terina. My Subaru Forester does that on cold mornings, but within about 5 minutes the noise is gone.

 

[dinosauract]

quote:

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DOes the noise only occur when you start it up on cold mornings and occur for a few minutes then go away If so, it's likely just a noisy valve terina. My Subaru Forester does that on cold mornings, but within about 5 minutes the noise is gone.

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No, its quite the opposite. Don't notice it at all when cold. I had a Forester before the Civic and am familiar with what you describe. This is not as loud as that and is more of a tapping sound. The Subaru 2.5 tends to have more of a "piston slap" noise or noise from the timing belt tensionser. The Civic's tapping noise really stands out because if it wren't for that, you'd almost have a hard time telling the engine was running at all.

 

[m2200b]

If its valve noise - try and listen to see if its the same noise from front to rear of the valve cover. I worry about if I can hear the tapping located to more the front or back as that usually ties to those individual lifters or hla. Tapping is usually just a one or two lifters.

Assuming it not just one lifter I'd add the VSOT to the existing PP as you get a quick view of how its working. If you add it at the start of an OIC, you're stuck with it for the OIC . 2oz per gt gets you your 30w but might not be the best cold start oil in Feb PA. You could add the 1 oz now to see if that's the direction that helps and another 1 oz as weather gets better if you like the earlier dose.

I can't see Honda adding your blend w/o some warranty concerns. 5-30 dino gets to 5-20 pretty fast compared to 10-30. What a difference for DYI when the car company locates the filter in the front of the block over the cold intake ala toyota and gm rather than over the rear and hot exhaust.

 

[dinosauract]

It seems to be pretty evenly distributed under the valve cover. Perhaps there is just very little sound insulation. But the fact that it is much quieter when cold sure tells me that a thicker oil would help to quiet it.

I'll give the VSOT a try.

I could get sneaky and put the blend in a 5W20 gallon container and the dealer would never know. Maybe not worth the trouble if the 5W30 is likely to shear down quickly anyway.

 

[Steve S]

compare your engine to other like engines.

 

[Mr Nice]

Most Civics are slightly noisy on start up.

My mom & dad have a 2001 and 2005 Civic LX (same engine as your Civic VP) and I notice that when I use 10w30 Havoline dino in their cars, its as quiet as a Mouse

 

[JohnBrowning]

I would try synthetic 0W40 or 5W40. If you want to stay with a 5W20 then give Redline 5W20 a try! If Redline does not quite it down nothing will!

 

[JAG]

A mix of GC and 1 qt of Castrol Syntec 5W-40 quieted down an 01' Civic LX I recently owned. I was doing it to cut down on oil consumtion, not noise, but I did observe the noises too. I can't say how the wear was affected by such a thicker oil than recommended because no UOAs were ever done. Before that I tried M1 5W-30 (noisy) and pure GC (still about as noisy).

 

[JavaMan]

My 2005 Civic SI is a little loud, but, my stereo will drown it out.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by dinosauract:
...But the fact that it is much quieter when cold sure tells me that a thicker oil would help to quiet it...

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Not necessarily. The valve clearances are tighter when the engine is cold. If this is an engine with solid lifters, I would rather hear a little noise once the engine is fully warmed. Otherwise, you stand some chance of burned valves because they may not be fully closing. (There are worse things than mildly ticking valves...) My '96 Accord - solid lifters - was always a bit noisy once warmed. Just the nature of the beast.

 

[Drew99GT]

Valve lash is higher when cold.

 

[Drew99GT]

Or is it the other way???

 

[oily boyd]

Having owned 3 Civics in my lifetime, here is what I would do:

a) adjust the valves cold per the manual.

b) choose a good oil and filter.

c) rest easy that the motor will live a long life.

It has been my experience that the noise you hear is present in many Civic engines and it seems to get louder with age.

To address the valve lash comments in previous posts:

Clearance decreases as the engine warms.

Just because you hear valve noise does not mean there aren't some tight ones!

Years ago, Honda used to call for valve adjustments every 15,000 miles.

Does anyone know the real reason that they now recommend 1 adjustment at 30,000 miles?

[ February 08, 2006, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: oily boyd ]

 

[Bob Woods]

Give 10W30 a try and turn up the radio