How does "Universal" CVT fluid work?

[bbhero]

Maybe... Maybe not ok. Nissan could well send a sample of the Amsoil CVT fluid off and if it doesn't match the real CVT fluid NS-3 then it would be a huge problem. I've said it before and will say it again.... If the CVT fluid is specific to that generation of CVT.... Then how can a company like Amsoil, Valvoline etc claim their fluid meets all of them?? It does not. Period. End of story. A generation 2 xtronic CVT like mine only takes NS-2 Nissan fluid. It states this in BOLD print. The next generation of CVT states the same thing... NS-3 with that 3rd generation CVT in bold writing in the manual.
Look, Amsoil and Valvoline make very good oils and other fluids for cars. Never a doubt about that in my mind. But in the case of CVTs it just is stupid that they make the claims they do. It just is poor on their part in doing so. If anyone wants to try out Amsoil CVT fluid then I say good luck and I sincerely hope all goes perfectly well for them. I just would not do that. It's not worth it to me to try to save $8-10 a quart on a 6k dollar transmission that is quite finicky to begin with. I would be more willing to try out a transmission fluid from a outside party if it were a conventional 4 speed automatic. CVTs are just too funky with how they operate to begin with in which I would feel comfortable running a after market fluid in them. The CVT fluid operates off of a whole other fluid dynamic than regular transmission fluids.. CVT transmission fluid operates on "traction coefficient" properties and not "friction coefficient" properties like other regular transmission fluids. From what I've heard is that Motul actually makes the CVT fluid for Nissan by the way. So, it's not exactly like a cheap fluid manufactor is making the OEM fluid by any means.
So, I say good luck and godspeed to those trying out other fluids. I really hope all is good for them in the future.

 

[Mainia]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Maybe... Maybe not ok. Nissan could well send a sample of the Amsoil CVT fluid off and if it doesn't match the real CVT fluid NS-3 then it would be a huge problem. I've said it before and will say it again.... If the CVT fluid is specific to that generation of CVT.... Then how can a company like Amsoil, Valvoline etc claim their fluid meets all of them?? It does not. Period. End of story. A generation 2 xtronic CVT like mine only takes NS-2 Nissan fluid. It states this in BOLD print. The next generation of CVT states the same thing... NS-3 with that 3rd generation CVT in bold writing in the manual.
Look, Amsoil and Valvoline make very good oils and other fluids for cars. Never a doubt about that in my mind. But in the case of CVTs it just is stupid that they make the claims they do. It just is poor on their part in doing so. If anyone wants to try out Amsoil CVT fluid then I say good luck and I sincerely hope all goes perfectly well for them. I just would not do that. It's not worth it to me to try to save $8-10 a quart on a 6k dollar transmission that is quite finicky to begin with. I would be more willing to try out a transmission fluid from a outside party if it were a conventional 4 speed automatic. CVTs are just too funky with how they operate to begin with in which I would feel comfortable running a after market fluid in them. The CVT fluid operates off of a whole other fluid dynamic than regular transmission fluids.. CVT transmission fluid operates on "traction coefficient" properties and not "friction coefficient" properties like other regular transmission fluids. From what I've heard is that Motul actually makes the CVT fluid for Nissan by the way. So, it's not exactly like a cheap fluid manufactor is making the OEM fluid by any means.
So, I say good luck and godspeed to those trying out other fluids. I really hope all is good for them in the future.





Why can they state that, because with all the hype, Dogma and fear people on oil forums put out on the virtues of OEM "average" oils, at best in most cases. When you make a oil for a specific use case, you have common factors to address. Tt comes down to add-pack and base stock. With AFT the boutique oil companies (Redline and Amsoil) exceed both base stock and add-pack so that is why it claims universal. Both these companies exceed, with Redline coming out on top, seeing they are a group 5 would exceed 99.5% of OEM ATFs.

Now CVTs both these companies I would say exceed or match almost all of then too. You need to remember when Redline and Amsoil plop their best oil on the table the first criteria they go by is "we start out designing this oil as a "rough service or borderline racing oil" That means better base stocks and better add-packs. Nissan orders it's CVT oil from Motul with price as #1 #2 on their list.

And using Nissan as manufacture to hold up....... that can't get it right on 3 tries on designing oil for their CVTs. Never have I seen an OEM oil in "commonly used auto manufacture" ever impressed me, PERIOD. The boutiques ALWAYS exceed OEM oils, PERIOD.

 

[JTK]

IMO, what it boils down to is OEM and "universal" CVT fluids aren't the same, but either will work just fine. Like we say over and over, Valvoline, Castrol, Amsoil, etc, would not assume the liability of putting their name on the product if it destroyed your CVT.

 

[bbhero]

I don't go as far as to believe that... Nothing against Amsoil or Valvoline at all. They make many other products that are great. But I'm just sorry a universal CVT fluid is not a legitimate idea. If it was... Nissan would not be exceptionally explicit in their instructions in their manual for different generation CVTs.

 

[bbhero]

Hey man.. Do you know that Motul makes the CVT fluid for Nissan?? Yeah. So, they make exotic oils as well. Again, whether you like it or not.... When a manual states in BOLD Black type in the MANUAL that what fluid is to run in those CVTs.... It is straight forward as it gets period. End of story. Again, using common sense critical level thinking here... If Nissan themselves state to run the matching CVT fluid in the matching generation of CVT... Then how can anyone claim that their fluid meets ALL of those?? It either a) does not or b) may well work.... But could cause problems eventually down the line if run too long vs the real fluid which would not have that trouble here.
If we are talking about a run of the mill 4 speed automatic then I would be much more on board with free lancing on this. But this is not the case here. CVTs are still working the bugs out and are much more finicky over what fluid is run in them. If there ever was a time to stay with an OEM fluid this is the prime time to do so.
I wish everyone and anyone who runs whatever in their vehicles the very best of luck. I hope they have zero issues at all. In this circumstance if someone runs whatever hoopty Doo fluid they want and it works with no problems then I am happy for them.

 

[JTK]

I hear you, but I haven't read of any failures associates with using "suitable for use" aftermarket CVT fluids in appropriate applications to have an opinion such as yours. My experience with it is NS-3 is relatively easy and inexpensive to get by mail-order, so that's the route I went and will likely continue.

I have read of several high mileage later model Subaru CVT owners where they used aftermarket fluids and they live on. I know of no failures in regards to that.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah man. I got ya. I will say this... Anyone putting their belief, faith and trust in Amsoil or Valvoline are not wrong for doing so. They do make great oils and products that perform flawlessly for millions of people world wide. These two make some of the best oil and products out there.

I just feel more comfortable staying within the lines in this one. In my job you have black box warnings about medications. These are to be taken into account and taken rather seriously. I feel that the bold type in the Nissan manual is the same type of deal. But, that is just how I am trained to operate and think. People die if things are not given or not given in the right route or dosage or if given something and then a certain test is performed they could go into renal failure. That's why I am strident about the bold type and explicited instructions in the manual.

However, if others want to try something else that's made from Amsoil or Valvoline I can understand that. I would not recommend that myself. But, that's only what I think about it. I will say that I truly hope whoever runs those products has zero issues. That would make me happy here. Wishing bad things to happen to others just to be right is just trifling and nasty

In this case if I'm wrong then it is a good day as well.

Ohh by the way.... I wouldn't run Smitty's Super S Universal CVT fluid though. Now that's one I think we could possibly agree on.

 

[Silk]

The Fuchs CVT I have in stock says Nissan NS-1, NS-2, and NS-3, and a whole lot of Mitsi, Honda, BMW etc applications. But doing mainly Mitsubishi I will use DiaQueen for preference. Something over 10 years old gets the Fuchs.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

Yeah man. I got ya. I will say this... Anyone putting their belief, faith and trust in Amsoil or Valvoline are not wrong for doing so. They do make great oils and products that perform flawlessly for millions of people world wide. These two make some of the best oil and products out there.

I just feel more comfortable staying within the lines in this one. In my job you have black box warnings about medications. These are to be taken into account and taken rather seriously. I feel that the bold type in the Nissan manual is the same type of deal. But, that is just how I am trained to operate and think. People die if things are not given or not given in the right route or dosage or if given something and then a certain test is performed they could go into renal failure. That's why I am strident about the bold type and explicited instructions in the manual.

However, if others want to try something else that's made from Amsoil or Valvoline I can understand that. I would not recommend that myself. But, that's only what I think about it. I will say that I truly hope whoever runs those products has zero issues. That would make me happy here. Wishing bad things to happen to others just to be right is just trifling and nasty

In this case if I'm wrong then it is a good day as well.

Ohh by the way.... I wouldn't run Smitty's Super S Universal CVT fluid though. Now that's one I think we could possibly agree on.

Since it’s been 5 years, has your outlook on using “universal” cvt fluids changed any? Just asking is all

 

[The Critic]

Additive suppliers have developed multi-vehicle CVT additive solutions.

https://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/AftonSBU/Driveline/PDS/HiTEC-3435A/HiTEC-3435A_PDS.pdf?ext=.pdf

 

[JTK]

I think my wife has put about 500 miles on our 2019 Nissan Pathfinder since I did a spill and fill with a gallon of Castrol Transmax universal ATF/CVT juice. It's got a mix of NS-3 CVT fluid and Tansmax in the sump. It ain't blowed up yet.

 

[2dogs]

Did 2 drain and fills on my Subaru CVT about 10000 miles ago. Used Valvoline fluid from Walmart. The mix of Subaru and Valvoline fluids are working fine in my sample of one.

 

[JTK]

Did 2 drain and fills on my Subaru CVT about 10000 miles ago. Used Valvoline fluid from Walmart. The mix of Subaru and Valvoline fluids are working fine in my sample of one.

I would have preferred to use Valvoline CVT fluid on my Nissan, but I can never find it on the shelf at my Wally when I'm looking for it. If I can find it on my next go around, the sump may have a mix of NS-3, Castrol Transmax universal and Valvoline!

 

[02zx9r rev2]

I would have preferred to use Valvoline CVT fluid on my Nissan, but I can never find it on the shelf at my Wally when I'm looking for it. If I can find it on my next go around, the sump may have a mix of NS-3, Castrol Transmax universal and Valvoline!

If that cvt runs fine for several hundred thousand miles with that brew then I won’t worry so much about changing different brands of fluids and not getting all of the old out

 

[MolaKule]

Maybe... Maybe not ok. Nissan could well send a sample of the Amsoil CVT fluid off and if it doesn't match the real CVT fluid NS-3 then it would be a huge problem. I've said it before and will say it again.... If the CVT fluid is specific to that generation of CVT.... Then how can a company like Amsoil, Valvoline etc claim their fluid meets all of them?? It does not. Period...

Getting a sample of the fluid properly analyzed is no small venture and is costly. Dealerships do not have the expertise to analyze any fluid.

Most Manf. only use an ATF forensic analysis to determine failure modes.

NS-3 is simply the latest upgrade of the NS-X series and is of lower viscosity than previous versions and contains more synthetic components.

 

[MolaKule]

Additive suppliers have developed multi-vehicle CVT additive solutions.

https://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/AftonSBU/Driveline/PDS/HiTEC-3435A/HiTEC-3435A_PDS.pdf?ext=.pdf

Yes, and these DI manf. test these fluids in real hardware before issuing coverage lists.

 

[cronk]

Well, I now have 2 Nissans with CVT's in my garage.
My wifes 2011 Quest that calls for NS-2
And a recently aquired 2014 Altima 2.5 that calls for NS-3
I am running Amsoil cvt fluid in both, and both perform flawlessly with the Amsoil fluid!
My wifes Quest has had the Amsoil fluid since 60k miles and now has over 115k.
My Altima has 144k and has had the Amsoil fluid for a week.

 

[Pablo]

Piling the miles on the 2017 CR-V with primarily Amsoil for the past few years. Flawless.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

I’ve got Amsoil cvt fluid in my 2017 accord sport (did a 3X drain and fill at 32K) at 63K now, did a single drain and fill 30K mikes later. Will stick with that combo for life of car. (UOA posted)

He 2015 Altima did a 3X d/f with Castrol transmax at 50K, did a drain and fill at 75K Miles.

 

[Exhaustgases]

No matter what anyone says there is no one size fits all automatic or cvt transmission fluid. The fluid is part of the engineering of the transmission.
Each fluid has different additives and friction modifiers. But in the end use what you want to use, it is then an experiment. Yeah mix them up as you like, just don't complain about how horrible that transmission is.
If you are going to use a non OEM fluid, it would be best if there was no trace of any other fluid in the transmission, yes that means total rebuild of the transmission, valve body, and torque converter. If that is done it may last a bit, but then there is that nasty shift schedule and apply and release times and clutch material that comes into play, it may need more slippage than the non OEM fluid gives or maybe it needs more Grab than the non OEM fluid gives. Maybe there is a slight viscosity difference and the main pressure control valve either leaks more or leaks less, same with the pump, then either there is a bit higher or a bit lower line pressure. Just don't complain about a judder or what ever. Anyone that chooses to use the wrong transmission fluid either has deep pockets, plans on junking the car, or just loves to crawl under cars and pulling wrenches, and also are transmission rebuilder types.