How does my smart meter communicate?

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Originally Posted By: mk378
Originally Posted By: Ducked
There used to be wired ethernet that used the domestic ring-main as cabling. Probably still is. Don't know/can't remember if there was a WAN equivalent but I can't see any real reason why not.

Data signals will not pass through the step-down transformer on the pole to the main line. So, communication is limited to within the same house or between neighbors that are connected to the same transformer.

There is a proposal for "broadband over power line" but it would use power lines only for final delivery to the house. Wide-area distribution would be by fiber optic run alongside the main power lines, with a fiber to power line converter at each transformer.


There you go then. A technical possibility, with a bit of tweakery.

Seems to be still available off the shelf for a LAN

https://www.techradar.com/news/networking/powerline-networking-what-you-need-to-know-930691

This bit

"Sending signals across a home's electrical wiring isn't a 21st century idea. In fact, the power companies have been sending control signals over the mains since the 1920s − it's how electricity meters know when to switch to an off-peak rate. "


seems to suggest longer range operation, but perhaps I'm misinterpreting it, or they're making it up
 
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
I don't think 'tin foil' will help you very much (tip: good luck finding foil made of tin). What might serve you more usefully is probably a fundamental grasp of electromagnetic radiation, the characteristics of different bands and a general concept of each band's interaction with biological systems. There is plenty of educational material for you to peruse through, after becoming basically familiar with RF.


Okay, okay, maybe tinfoil hat was a bit too sarcastic. The sight doesn't seem the most credible, considering as how some of the literature is also speaking about anti-vax. Obviously radiation from devices has an effect, but is this perhaps similar to the "hysteria" in the '90s between the supposed link between cell phones and brain tumors?
 
Oh boy, more hysteria over wireless signals causing cancer. Are you more concerned about the low power radio in your smart meter than the cellular signals, satellite GPS, internet, TV signals, Terrestrial AM/FM Radio, Wifi, and let's not even talk about natural background radiation, all around you, plus weather radar, FAA radio, and all sorts of other stuff? I'm beyond amazed at the hysteria over this kind of stuff. Did you build your house in a faraday cage and completely cut yourself off from technology over fear of cancer?

And to begin with, blocking off your smart meter completely defeats the purpose of a smart grid, which is to efficiently provide electricity when and where it's needed, so as to not waste energy.
 
I have a smart meter for the last 15 years or more. It is not really smart like the new ones. But it does read my usage in real time, reports outages and controls my AC with some sort of relay box. All done over the AC lines.
 
Our smart meter uses some sort of over the air system, but we live in a valley so it has to be read manually. They don't charge us time of use rates, but just charge a middle rate which saves us some money I think.
There are a lot stories in Ontario of smart meters charging huge bills with no recourse from Hydro 1, so if I had one of those I would try to shield it some how, to get back to straight metering. My neighbor had bills that didn't seem physically possible when they got put onto a smart meter.
 
Most likely they just build it over your cellular network. The amount of data is so small you don't need a high bandwidth system so a cheap data network will be fine.

Sending 20kB once a day will probably only expose you to 1ms of that 0.25W signal. Checking email on your smart phone will do more than that, x100.
 
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
is putting a metal screen over these legal? I know of a product that just clips on the front and blocks comms. Some claim new meters are causing cancer.


I'm pretty sure if they couldn't reach the meter for a few days they'll send someone out, and if they see you tampering with it they'll likely cutoff your electricity.
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: mk378
Originally Posted By: Ducked
There used to be wired ethernet that used the domestic ring-main as cabling. Probably still is. Don't know/can't remember if there was a WAN equivalent but I can't see any real reason why not.

Data signals will not pass through the step-down transformer on the pole to the main line. So, communication is limited to within the same house or between neighbors that are connected to the same transformer.

There is a proposal for "broadband over power line" but it would use power lines only for final delivery to the house. Wide-area distribution would be by fiber optic run alongside the main power lines, with a fiber to power line converter at each transformer.


There you go then. A technical possibility, with a bit of tweakery.


When we were one "Electricity Commission" there were two phone systems.

One was the land line, and the other was over the HV network.

These at each end loaded and downloaded the comms...
power-line-carrier-communication-plcc.jpg
 
Our electric co-op has over 90,000 meteres connected to it. Over the last couple of years they have all been replaced with new smart meters.

My questions are does anyone know how much each meter costs?

How much does it save the power companies compared to have humans actually read each meter like they used to in my area?

Thanks.
 
Quote:
Oh boy, more hysteria over wireless signals causing cancer. ...... I'm beyond amazed at the hysteria over this kind of stuff. Did you build your house in a faraday cage and completely cut yourself off from technology over fear of cancer? ....


Hysteria is an emotion. Prudence and caution, are, well, prudence and caution.

I got my amateur radio license in 1973. At that time, no one was much concerned about field strengths and their effect on people, other than some studies that weren't too informative.

Fast forward to 1998, and regulations roll out, and, in some instances, RF evaluations have to be done and field strengths calculated to avoid public exposure to excess RF, just to run a hobby transmitter. Unsurprisingly, as frequency goes up, the permitted exposure goes down dramatically, until, interestingly, or conveniently, about 900 MHz, where the permitted exposure begins to rise again, so you have an upside down bell curve relative to frequency.

I'm not convinced that all this UHF and above radiation is harmful. Nor am I convinced that the cumulative effects of all this UHF + exposure is benign. Only time will tell. Personally, I try to minimize my exposure from transmitters above HF. I have a VHF antenna that sits behind me in my cars, and I only run more than a few watts to it when strictly necessary. If my child is in the car, I don't transmit, period. I just think that's prudent.

All of the wireless stuff has sure trashed the radio spectrum, and increased the noise floor everywhere. I don't like that at all, but convenience uber alles seems to be the mantra.
 
How long did it take before asbestos was banned? How long did it take before smoking was accepted as harmful?
 
I second that WIN.

Our REC recently sent out a note stating that AMI meters would be installed, so I asked them about the frequencies and power, since I did not want any interference with my ARS equipment.

It turns out that they run around 905 MHz with about 1 Watt of power. The meter is interogated about 3 to 5 times per day remotely.

You will get more non-ionizing radiation from your WIFI router and from 1kW home microwave oven than from any meter.

Here's the caveat:
Quote:
Can the cooperative disconnect electric service using the new meters?
Yes, meters will have remote disconnect capabilities.


Now supposedly, they have security encryption to keep someone from hacking into it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Vikas
How long did it take before asbestos was banned? How long did it take before smoking was accepted as harmful?


Yes, but most people cannot differentiate between nuclear (ionizing) radiation and RF non-ionizing radiation.

They are NOT the same.
 
Originally Posted By: vavavroom
The real question is what data your smart meter is gathering and sending.

image.jpg


The only thing a smart meter is capable of doing is measure how much electricity you're using, and at what time of day. It has no way of knowing what you're using that electricity for, be it an air conditioning unit, refrigerator, electric stove, computer, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
The only thing a smart meter is capable of doing is measure how much electricity you're using, and at what time of day. It has no way of knowing what you're using that electricity for, be it an air conditioning unit, refrigerator, electric stove, computer, etc.


Not this round they don't...but these do...
https://www.energyaustralia.com.au/home/solar-and-batteries/redback-smart-hybrid-system

Actually quite proud of my employer developing this Aussie technology. This can schedule your house loads to operate while you are at work.

After they've analysed how you use power, they might, at their cost expand the batteries and sign you up to be a peak power provider, discharging back into the grid for afternoon peak for example.

Ultimately, it will facilitate peer to peer transactions, where if you are generating during the day and a neighbour is a heavy user (home business or something), you can supply them for an agreed rate, and EA get the facilitation fee.
 
It's a standard mesh network smart meter

902-928 MHz ISM band

Uses either a mesh or gateway approach, so no walk by or drive by reading required

In more rural areas, cellular is an option

If it's an Aclara brand meter, it works the same way

If it's an Itron branded gas/electric meter, it runs on the bubble up walk by or drive the car with the antenna by system

If it helps avoid an estimated bill, it makes my job easier
 
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