Honda Small Claims Court

[Spector]

The Southern California owner of a Honda hybrid car has won her unusual small-claims court lawsuit against the auto giant over the vehicle's failure to deliver the promised mileage," The Associated Press reports.
It says that "a Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner has awarded Heather Peters $9,867."
As was discussed last month on All Things Considered, "Peters decided to opt out of a class-action settlement that would have given her as little as $100 and awarded the attorneys $8.5 million. The 46-year-old Los Angeles resident, who is also a lawyer, decided to even the playing field by filing her suit in a small claims court, which doesn't allow the parties to retain lawyers."
Her case: Peters showed that ads had claimed her Honda Civic hybrid would get 50 miles per gallon. In court, as Eyder previously wrote, "she came armed with hundreds of pictures of her dashboard showing that she got at best 42 miles per gallon and after a software update that number dropped to fewer than 30 miles per gallon."
According to the AP, Peters said after hearing of her court win that "sometimes big justice comes in small packages. This is a victory for Honda Civic orders everywhere."

 

[Spazdog]

now she can take her money and go buy a Leaf.

Because I have reason to believe that she is a large part of her fuel economy "problem".

 

[ruxCYtable]

I have a huge problem with this. First off, isn't it the EPA and not the automakers themselves that do the testing? Or does the EPA just prescribe how to administer the test?

Either way, Honda should not be held liable for advertising what, to the best of their knowledge, was the accurate result of an EPA-prescribed test.

And for their part, Honda should have made her go blind on paperwork documenting her driving habits. Maybe they just didn't want to spend the time.

 

[Whimsey]

She is a lawyer from what I read. Maybe she's playing the legal system for personal gain.

Whimsey

 

[Xstang]

Mkay, just to clear this up (got all this from reading a honda forum for a bit):

When the 2nd gen civic hybrid came out, yeah, they did get close to the 50mpg figure that they had on the EPA sticker.

Then, they realized that the batteries were cycling waaaay to fast to keep up the mileage needed for this. So, instead of having countless warranty claims for bad batteries, they reprogrammed the ECU's to make the engine take more of the load while driving. This is why everyone that owns on gets low/mid 30's.

IMHO, she bought a car thinking it'd get 50mpg, and got one that actually achieved 30. I think she had a valid point. Also, Honda has yet to make a good hybrid anyway.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Good for her. Honda deserves a few whacks. Especially for my 1983 Accord 3 door.

 

[rjacket]

I'm always surprised by how many apologists there are for businesses on these boards.

I understand that small business owners face difficult customers, heck I sold something on ebay recently and had someone expecting Nordstrom levels of service and then tried to angle for a refund after receiving the item, but when it comes to large corporations claiming something then not delivering it, you should all know which side your bread is buttered.

 

[nthach]

Honda's dropped the ball as of the past few years. Honda's hybrid technology isn't as well integrated or engineered as Toyota's system. Let's see how their new system works out.

And their weak transmissions that would have worked 20 years ago with their then torqueless motors but not today and their many design blunders...

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Honda's dropped the ball as of the past few years. Honda's hybrid technology isn't as well integrated or engineered as Toyota's system. Let's see how their new system works out.

And their weak transmissions that would have worked 20 years ago with their then torqueless motors but not today and their many design blunders...

Wow. Tell us how you really feel......haha

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: rjacket
I'm always surprised by how many apologists there are for businesses on these boards.

She's a lawyer. She bought a hybrid. She's a woman. Based on the previous threads on this subject, it seems those 3 factors predispose a lot of this forum's participants to be against her. The knee-jerk reactions are no surprise to me...

 

[rjacket]

And she's in southern ca

Re reading this, the thing that stood out was how she had the sense to not get into the class action suit.

The people to criticize would be Honda, the class action lawyers, and all those who signed up to the class action.

Clearly, the class action and this lady proved that Honda made a mistake. She was far smarter than the class action participants who will only walk away with $100 each.

 

[bullwinkle]

More power to her-but I would argue that hybrids in general have underwhelming MPG performance. Guess she missed the "YMMV"!

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
More power to her-but I would argue that hybrids in general have underwhelming MPG performance. Guess she missed the "YMMV"!


Give me a break! 50mpg > 30mpg is ymmv?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: rjacket
I'm always surprised by how many apologists there are for businesses on these boards.


Irrespective of the specific issue in this thread, even big businesses have problems, too. It's not just small businesses that have difficult customers.

We've all seen how people try to return used oil to Walmart in exchange for new (or cash). And we know of warranty scams.

Aside from that, a company like Honda undoubtedly has competing claims (and power grabs) between engineers, marketing, and executives.

None of that makes them right in this case, but, simply put, you can't please all the people all the time.

 

[vortex9]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Honda's dropped the ball as of the past few years. Honda's hybrid technology isn't as well integrated or engineered as Toyota's system. Let's see how their new system works out.

And their weak transmissions that would have worked 20 years ago with their then torqueless motors but not today and their many design blunders...


I agree 100%. As a longtime Honda fan and enthusiast, my next vehicle will most likely not be a Honda. Honda was at its best in the 90's and early 2000's. The civic, accord, Crv and oddyssey are no longer class leaders like in the past.

 

[cronk]

That is pathetic, my 99 Saturn SL2 gets low to mid 30's on the highway. This lady probably paid 3 times what my Saturn cost new.

 

[rossn2]

EPA don't test jack..they get the numbers from the Manufacturers. They don't even use gas in the test..it's another liquid. And, they conduct the tests on a dino under controlled conditions, unless things have changed.
And, who can actually drive down the highway at 55mph without getting run over? Heck, Texas just changed some of it's highways to 75mph...what's that gonna do to mpg's?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Honda should have been required to buy back (at full sticker price) ALL Civic hybrids after the programming stunt they pulled!

 

[Norm Olt]

Take a look at the performance figures for a 2010 Accord V6 and compare them to those well-loved and very highly regarded performance cars of the mid '60's to early '70's:

The "muscle cars" and the "pony cars", the Z-28's, Mustang GT's, the GTO's, GTA's, 442's...

The full sized 421 Grand Prix, 396 Caprice and 455 Wildcat's.

A base V6 Accord will leave most of them in the dust in the 1/4 mile, in 0-60, is 100% better feeling (and much, MUCH safer!) @ 100 mph on the freeway and probably has a higher top speed as well. Run away and hide from them on a road course, out brake and out handle most of them on the skidpad, can actually be driven in the snow and...

Probably gets at the least twice the gas mileage!

Not too bad, really.

Now factor in maintenance and probable service lifespan and it becomes evident that there have been remarkable improvements made.

Don't misinterprit what I'm saying: those are the performance cars of my youth and most are and will continue to be undeniably cool.

But... They are not really that great today compared, performance-wise, with what, for the most part, are common everyday vehicles.

A "plain Jane" 328i, not a M3. A GTI vs. a R32. Even a 2010 Mazda 3, not a MazdaSpeed3.

Cheers!

 

[javacontour]

So what you are saying is they are cool for being what they where in their day.

I guess I'm getting old as I like a lot of the older sheetmetal compared to today's cars. I believe that's one of the signs of getting old.

I'll be right back, I need to tell some kids to get off my lawn.