Honda ATF-DW1

[gogozy]

Canadian Version of ATF-DW1 MSDS
@40C= 25.09 cSt; @100C = 6.835 cSt
Flash Point 170°C / 338°F


I also notice the low flash point of ATF-DW1 - 170c, where most of other major brand are around 200c. anyone know if this due to different test method? Does this also an (as one of) indicate the ATF-DW1's may have poor resistance break down at high temperature?

thanks.

 

[gogozy]

my apology... I think I had make a mistake, the 2nd file is ATF-Z1. not DW1.

 

[gogozy]

anyone think i am over-worry about 170C flash point? thanks.

 

[dwcopple]

yes

 

[gogozy]

thanks, haha, I finally have 1 reply!!
reason for my concern, is that old ATF-Z1 has same flash point of 170... Honda claims it's a synthetic based .. I thought ATF-DW1 shall have a high flash point

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: gogozy
thanks, haha, I finally have 1 reply!!
reason for my concern, is that old ATF-Z1 has same flash point of 170... Honda claims it's a synthetic based .. I thought ATF-DW1 shall have a high flash point

Honda ATF Z1 or DW-1 are not synthetic.

Im told the Canada brand HONDA DW-1 is synthetic

also the only improvement in DW-1 is for starting when car is cold.

I read that in Honda PDF

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: gogozy
thanks, haha, I finally have 1 reply!!
reason for my concern, is that old ATF-Z1 has same flash point of 170... Honda claims it's a synthetic based .. I thought ATF-DW1 shall have a high flash point

Looks like no one wnats to repond to your post.

well at least I did.....

wonder if a person can buy Canada brand HONDA DW-1 In USA ?

 

[Quakish]

this is where i struggle with the whole different dw-1 in the US and Canada thing. First has anyone proved that this is the case? Second so someone living in Winnipeg Manitoba gets synthetic DW-1 "because it's cold in Canada" while someone living in Nebraska or North Dakota gets non synthetic because it's so much warmer there?

It just doesn't make sense to me that Honda sells the exact same vehicles in both countries but is going to sell synthetic DW-1 in a country 1/10th the size of the US? Unless someone has done a virgin test on fluids from both countries showing the difference I think they are the same fluid.

 

[antiqueshell]

@Quakish:

Don't forget that Honda has distributors that are basically independent of each other. So Honda Canada, and American Honda can choose different products for their market this goes on around the world. Cost certainly is a factor, my feeling is that as long as the product does the job well, I don't care whether it is
synthetic or not, it meets OEM specs, and the cost for the dino formula is cheaper, my guess is that BOTH versions are made for
Honda by Idemitsu the OEM supplier to Honda.

 

[Quakish]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
@Quakish:

Don't forget that Honda has distributors that are basically independent of each other. So Honda Canada, and American Honda can choose different products for their market this goes on around the world. Cost certainly is a factor, my feeling is that as long as the product does the job well, I don't care whether it is
synthetic or not, it meets OEM specs, and the cost for the dino formula is cheaper, my guess is that BOTH versions are made for
Honda by Idemitsu the OEM supplier to Honda.


I'm pretty sure Idemitsu makes the fluid for both markets. it would blow my mind that Canada would get a synthetic ATF and the US would get a non synthetic ATF. If it was the opposite I could understand. We are used to getting second rate stuff up here. I think this whole different DW-1 stuff is [censored]. our countries have different criteria for what can be written on a label. someone picked up on the different labels and it became fact without anyone providing proof that the 2 DW-1 fluids are different. Show me a blackstone (or similar test) that shows the 2 fluids are different and I'll clam up.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Quakish
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
@Quakish:

Don't forget that Honda has distributors that are basically independent of each other. So Honda Canada, and American Honda can choose different products for their market this goes on around the world. Cost certainly is a factor, my feeling is that as long as the product does the job well, I don't care whether it is
synthetic or not, it meets OEM specs, and the cost for the dino formula is cheaper, my guess is that BOTH versions are made for
Honda by Idemitsu the OEM supplier to Honda.


I'm pretty sure Idemitsu makes the fluid for both markets. it would blow my mind that Canada would get a synthetic ATF and the US would get a non synthetic ATF. If it was the opposite I could understand. We are used to getting second rate stuff up here. I think this whole different DW-1 stuff is [censored]. our countries have different criteria for what can be written on a label. someone picked up on the different labels and it became fact without anyone providing proof that the 2 DW-1 fluids are different. Show me a blackstone (or similar test) that shows the 2 fluids are different and I'll clam up.


I would be surprised too but why would they bother to create two separate labels for two essentially identical markets??? Doesn't make any sense. I have to say that this kind of selections DO happen at various car manufacturer distributors. Honda and other car makers can and do allow different regional distributors of their products to offering different versions of similar products.

VW does this all the time, you have two independent distributors of VW cars ( VWoA and VW Canada), and they DO offer slightly different versions of fluids for the same model cars in both markets.

 

[Quakish]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I would be surprised too but why would they bother to create two separate labels for two essentially identical markets??? Doesn't make any sense. I have to say that this kind of selections DO happen at various car manufacturer distributors. Honda and other car makers can and do allow different regional distributors of their products to offering different versions of similar products.

VW does this all the time, you have two independent distributors of VW cars ( VWoA and VW Canada), and they DO offer slightly different versions of fluids for the same model cars in both markets.


labelling requirements in both countries are different. some claims can be made in canada and not the US. this goes the opposite way too. the fluids may be the same, they may be different. When you google Canada DW-1 you get the MSDS from Idemitsu. Same supplier honda used for Z-1. Other than hearsay and the different labels I have not seen proof the DW-1 sold in the US is different from Canada.

Like I wrote earlier, show be a virgin oil analysis that shows the 2 are different then I'll believe it.

 

[David1]

I have tried to find a place to buy Amazon Canada or Any Honda Dealer that is in Canda all say HONDA DW-1 and the bottle looks the same as ours.


have any of you 2004 owner readers seen this PDF???

http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2007/2007-05/2007_05_22.pdf

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Quakish
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
@Quakish:

Don't forget that Honda has distributors that are basically independent of each other. So Honda Canada, and American Honda can choose different products for their market this goes on around the world. Cost certainly is a factor, my feeling is that as long as the product does the job well, I don't care whether it is
synthetic or not, it meets OEM specs, and the cost for the dino formula is cheaper, my guess is that BOTH versions are made for
Honda by Idemitsu the OEM supplier to Honda.


I'm pretty sure Idemitsu makes the fluid for both markets. it would blow my mind that Canada would get a synthetic ATF and the US would get a non synthetic ATF. If it was the opposite I could understand. We are used to getting second rate stuff up here. I think this whole different DW-1 stuff is [censored]. our countries have different criteria for what can be written on a label. someone picked up on the different labels and it became fact without anyone providing proof that the 2 DW-1 fluids are different. Show me a blackstone (or similar test) that shows the 2 fluids are different and I'll clam up.


I would be surprised too but why would they bother to create two separate labels for two essentially identical markets??? Doesn't make any sense. I have to say that this kind of selections DO happen at various car manufacturer distributors. Honda and other car makers can and do allow different regional distributors of their products to offering different versions of similar products.

VW does this all the time, you have two independent distributors of VW cars ( VWoA and VW Canada), and they DO offer slightly different versions of fluids for the same model cars in both markets.

I was told the programming of Canada/US are different. no details on what sort of programming, maybe it's the maintenance minder, where syn-blend can last a cycle in US but may require a full syn in Canada.

 

[Quakish]

i have a case of DW-1 I bought from the US a year ago. Maybe I'll buy a litre of DW-1 from a dealer up here and see if they are different. just for sheets and giggles.

 

[AKhan87]

Good idea

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: Quakish
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I would be surprised too but why would they bother to create two separate labels for two essentially identical markets??? Doesn't make any sense. I have to say that this kind of selections DO happen at various car manufacturer distributors. Honda and other car makers can and do allow different regional distributors of their products to offering different versions of similar products.

VW does this all the time, you have two independent distributors of VW cars ( VWoA and VW Canada), and they DO offer slightly different versions of fluids for the same model cars in both markets.


labelling requirements in both countries are different. some claims can be made in canada and not the US. this goes the opposite way too. the fluids may be the same, they may be different. When you google Canada DW-1 you get the MSDS from Idemitsu. Same supplier honda used for Z-1. Other than hearsay and the different labels I have not seen proof the DW-1 sold in the US is different from Canada.

Like I wrote earlier, show be a virgin oil analysis that shows the 2 are different then I'll believe it.


Well camt somone email the maker Idemitsu or Honda / Acura and ask for the specs?

I did that for Supertech Synthetic oil and WP sent me the PDF with all the info and a nice email that I posted.. after I did that people said WOW
I will know what SYN oil Im going to use on my next Oil Change.
Reason is b/c the price... However my point is someone knows the answer and has proof.

All we have to do is know the correct person to ask, and ask for proof in the correct manner.

You seem to know what info you need and want and need to see for proof so you would be the best person to ask / email the company who makes DW-1 and actually see Canada DW-1 and USA DW-1 and see if there is a DIFF

hope you go for it.

 

[Quakish]

Originally Posted By: David1
Well camt somone email the maker Idemitsu or Honda / Acura and ask for the specs?

I did that for Supertech Synthetic oil and WP sent me the PDF with all the info and a nice email that I posted.. after I did that people said WOW
I will know what SYN oil Im going to use on my next Oil Change.
Reason is b/c the price... However my point is someone knows the answer and has proof.

All we have to do is know the correct person to ask, and ask for proof in the correct manner.

You seem to know what info you need and want and need to see for proof so you would be the best person to ask / email the company who makes DW-1 and actually see Canada DW-1 and USA DW-1 and see if there is a DIFF

hope you go for it.


that was a good idea. Idemitsu has a email address on their "contact us" page. i emailed and i did get a response - but it was a voicemail on my work phone (i emailed from work and my signature had my phone # in it). The response - same fluid from the same factory.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: David1

have any of you 2004 owner readers seen this PDF???

http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2007/2007-05/2007_05_22.pdf


I think this is why I've had such differing results with different fluids in our cars. I've used all of: original Z1, new DW-1, Castrol IMV, Valvoline MaxLife, and Valvoline Import ATF. The Valvoline products didn't work well for me. The Castrol worked the best of the aftermarket fluids. None worked as well as the Honda fluids.

And I think that very precise clutch timing talked about in that PDF is why. It stands to reason that fluids with different frictional characteristics will cause critical clutch timing to be thrown off. Some people apparently don't notice as much of a difference as I do. Maybe that's because their transmissions have a wider adaptive range where they can modify the shifting to match the new fluid. Maybe they're less sensitive to shift quality than I am. I don't know.

I use only Honda fluid now. Not because I think the transmissions will last longer or because I believe they'll blow up with other fluids. They simply don't shift as well on other fluids.

 

[wing0]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: David1

have any of you 2004 owner readers seen this PDF???

http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2007/2007-05/2007_05_22.pdf


I think this is why I've had such differing results with different fluids in our cars. I've used all of: original Z1, new DW-1, Castrol IMV, Valvoline MaxLife, and Valvoline Import ATF. The Valvoline products didn't work well for me. The Castrol worked the best of the aftermarket fluids. None worked as well as the Honda fluids.

And I think that very precise clutch timing talked about in that PDF is why. It stands to reason that fluids with different frictional characteristics will cause critical clutch timing to be thrown off. Some people apparently don't notice as much of a difference as I do. Maybe that's because their transmissions have a wider adaptive range where they can modify the shifting to match the new fluid. Maybe they're less sensitive to shift quality than I am. I don't know.

I use only Honda fluid now. Not because I think the transmissions will last longer or because I believe they'll blow up with other fluids. They simply don't shift as well on other fluids.


Did Honda change any design to the 5spd automatic since the problem in 2000-2001?

I don't hear as much issues with 2003+ Accords which got a 5spd auto.