Hemi Tick

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Wish you were closer and would def be a customer!

Always enjoy your write ups and you have the old school understanding of what is truly happening, the equipment to do it and not afraid of new technology - pretty rare combo especially with your honesty thrown in. Would be sending every woman I know to your shop bc you can be trusted on top of it.

Hoping immense success for you !
 
Nice write up. With all the hours of work to do, it's surely an effort to document this stuff and share.

Now give me a 360 or a 440. Preferably in a '73 Sebring with a pistol grip 4 on the floor.

Back in the 70's and 80's I don't remember too many a SBC going past 100K without a chain silent gear gone or a couple flat lobes.

No misfire codes though
smile.gif

_________________________

What was the roller lifter failure - bearings shot? Is this the "skating , not rolling" problem rearing its head?

Or overrev, float and pounding the bearings?

I don't know what nominal seat and open spring pressures these run. Thinking 90/200 at least.

Also Wondering if all the FM in the new oils adds to a skating issue.

I have to read up on the cylinder deactivation mechanism on these.

Thanks again.

_Ken
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite


Now give me a 360 or a 440. Preferably in a '73 Sebring with a pistol grip 4 on the floor.

Back in the 70's and 80's I don't remember too many a SBC going past 100K without a chain silent gear gone or a couple flat lobes.



Lol I just replaced the factory original timing set in my '74 360. It had the infamous nylon coated aluminum gear and a Morse chain. 80k miles and it sure was SLOPPY.
 
It certainly looks more involved to me than an LS cam swap. Maybe I missed it but did he say why he didn't want to change the lifters?
 
Just a thought on a different path, had you considered putting in a used engine. They are available at good prices, and can be found with significantly lower miles on them.

Are you buying someone else's problem? Maybe, but if from a wrecked unit, should be good.
 
Originally Posted by ls1mike
It certainly looks more involved to me than an LS cam swap. Maybe I missed it but did he say why he didn't want to change the lifters?


He said money was the reason.
 
Originally Posted by Danno
Just a thought on a different path, had you considered putting in a used engine. They are available at good prices, and can be found with significantly lower miles on them.



If I was to pay someone else, this is the route I'd opt for if I had one of these Hemi/LS failures. As cheap and plentiful as used engines w/ warranties are, I'd just plop a different one in it. It's all throwaway junk now that engines typically last so long and labor rates are high.

Back decades ago when engines were expensive and labor was less, it made more sense to repair them.

Same reason there are no local starter or alternator rebuilders anymore. When it fails, just chuck it in the trash and buy a new one!
 
Originally Posted by GMguy84
Surprised no "Class Action"/Lemon law against FDC on these POS hemi engines ??? Its like the most common failure i have EVER seen


I never seen one go past 150K miles without those cam/lifter issues ??


Indiana State police somehow gets their 5.7 Hemi Charger interceptors up to 150-200K miles and still running when auctioned off. Someday when i'm in that area I REALLY want to stop by their maintenance facility and ask whats they're secret lol


Dave


It's the exact same issue as the GM AFM one, I believe both GM and FCA use/used the same lifter provider. The difference is GM went with a billet cam core, whilst FCA didn't. I believe both are using updated lifters at this juncture as well.
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
"What could go wrong?" said the beancounter. "What could go right?" said the metallurgical engineer. We see who won that argument.

What a cluster. Thanks for the pics, my stepson is possibly facing the exact situation, including the money part. cline, just a question- was that the "original" SADI MDS cam or is that an updated one? I see the iron core so I'm not hopeful... I have at least talked my stepson into a billet core and MDS delete if his has eaten any lobes.

Just for a reference... how many hours (not book hours) did this take? Thanks!


IIRC, the last time we hashed this out, I found several examples of non-MDS engines experiencing the issue, so it isn't necessarily tied to MDS, but rather the brand/manufacturer of lifters, which impacted both GM and FCA.
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by GMBoy
Keep these write ups coming!

Curious, how much is a new engine vs $3600 to replace a few worn parts on this one? Understand the guy is going as low cost as possible.



Been down that road with Chrysler/FCA....They want to sell a short block for $2000, Then the heads, gasket set, cam, lifters etc for another $4000. God forbid you have a problem down the road. They aren't the only manufacturer that does this piecemeal BS either!
Coming from years at GM dealerships & several more years doing LSx swaps....It's a shock to the system!


That's nuts!

Were the new lifters any different from the old ones appearance-wise? I believe the part # is updated, but not sure if the appearance changed at all.
 
Old lifters on a new cams? Makes me wonder if he plans on keeping it very long. How much more would all new lifters cost?
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Dave, it's easy why they last so long for state troopers. They're either idling (no MDS), or WFO (no MDS here either). Yet if we duplicate their methods for longevity, it will result in brightly colored, one-piece outfits along with an itty-bitty living space for several years.
frown.gif




What is MDS ?
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger
#3 intake valve was moving @ 0.030" while #5 intake valve was moving over .500"...... …. Also asked a very good question that I honestly didn't have an answer for....."Why is the misfire intermittent"


Take this with a grain of salt, but I remember reading about a similar situation on an aircraft engine (I'm an A&P) and a few people with degrees far more expensive than my own said that the reason for the intermittent misfire is because on the cylinder with the wiped out lobe, there is enough lift of the valve to allow a small amount of intake charge in, but not enough to fire the cylinder. And not enough to exit the cylinder during the exhaust valve opening. Then over the course of three or four intake events enough pressure builds up to increase compression high enough to allow that cylinder to fire. Depending on the throttle opening this may be rhythmic or intermittent as the intake vacuum varies with engine load and throttle movement which in turn varies the amount of air actually getting into that cylinder.

Its not my theory, but it sounded fairly reasonable, at least to my level of expertise.
 
The way I am reading this , it is a lifter defect ? Or a cam defect ? Or both ?

I wonder if it is a failure of " heat treating " or using the wrong base material ? Or both ?
 
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Dave, it's easy why they last so long for state troopers. They're either idling (no MDS), or WFO (no MDS here either). Yet if we duplicate their methods for longevity, it will result in brightly colored, one-piece outfits along with an itty-bitty living space for several years.
frown.gif




What is MDS ?


It is the Chrysler version of Displacement on Demand, shutting down cylinders to increase fuel economy. It operates in the same way as GM's AFM system, using special lifters and oil pressure solenoids to disable/enable the system.
 
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
The way I am reading this , it is a lifter defect ? Or a cam defect ? Or both ?

I wonder if it is a failure of " heat treating " or using the wrong base material ? Or both ?


I believe it is a lifter issue, as it impacts both GM and FCA vehicles. GM used a billet cam core, FCA used SADI. With the GM system, my understanding is that the cam often survives because of the much harder material, whilst in the FCA case, you need to replace the cam because it gets damaged in the manner that the OP's pictures illustrate.
 
Just bought a 2013 Hemi Ram with 84k miles on it. Valvetrain seems noisy and I think I hear the infamous tick, but I'm not sure. I've had it at 2 shops (one was the dealer I bought it from) but they said there weren't any problems. Of course all the dealer did was pull codes.

Here's a vid of the engine running warmed up. Do you think this is a tick?

I'm hearing that Redline 5w30 with a 8 to 10k OCI is a good idea. Any other suggestions? The dealer did an oil change when it was traded, so I will likely wait a few thousand at least to change it. Planning to do Blackstone analysis each change.

Anyway, thanks.
 
Originally Posted by leviksu
Just bought a 2013 Hemi Ram with 84k miles on it. Valvetrain seems noisy and I think I hear the infamous tick, but I'm not sure. I've had it at 2 shops (one was the dealer I bought it from) but they said there weren't any problems. Of course all the dealer did was pull codes.

Here's a vid of the engine running warmed up. Do you think this is a tick?

I'm hearing that Redline 5w30 with a 8 to 10k OCI is a good idea. Any other suggestions? The dealer did an oil change when it was traded, so I will likely wait a few thousand at least to change it. Planning to do Blackstone analysis each change.

Anyway, thanks.



IMO, it Is a bit noisy especially on the drivers side. Are you sure there are no exhaust manifold leaks? Do you have any running concerns? Insufficient valve lift will show its face more under high engine load.
 
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