Having kids.....1.5 per family the norm?

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Originally Posted By: xBa380
They can claim they are the best things to ever happen to them, well, how I see it, they didn't have much going for them before-hand then. I'm busy with my hobbies, traveling, various projects and being able to do whatever we want.


Incorrect. having kids doesn't mean you give up hobbies, traveling, or "projects".

On the flip side, I'd argue that if this is the reason you don't want kids, you probably didn't have much going on for you in the past. Now you feel such a sense of relief that you finally figured out how to make yourself happy, you need to smother yourself in it and are afraid to share it with a little one!

laugh.gif
 
Economics are different for people here and there. I did without many things. Saved and didn't borrow to buy luxuries. Had 4 kids on one income. I stayed home to raise kids born in 88, 89 91 and 94. Hardest thing I have ever done by far. I see many people that want others to pay for day care so they can have two jobs and the big house and two cars. If you have kids, raise them yourself. It's your choice. It can be done but it requires some sacrifice.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Wife and I are in our 30s, we both work full time, and we have two young daughters (2 year old and 5 month old). There's no way we could pay all of our bills with just one of us working. We used to have my wife's parents watching the girls full-time, but my father in law's health has been deteriorating recently, and my mother in law is recovering from a broken pelvis, so we had to put the girls in daycare. Daycare costs $532 per week. My in-laws pay half of the daycare bill since we can't afford it on our own.
2006 Ford Ranger Sport
1992 Honda Accord EX
2004 Honda CR-V LX
1994 Ford Bronco XLT (project)
2011 Cadillac Escalade ESV (wife's)


That's pretty low/judgemental man.
 
Sheesh, sure is a lot of judgement and assumptions in this thread... yikes.

I have 2 kids. My choice. We planned it out after college was done, both of us have successful careers as professionals. Worked our way into a comfortable house and are debt free besides the mortgage. All planned choices. Plenty of things going for me, not that having a kid was just because life stunk.

I still mountain bike, hike, fish, hunt, and tinker. I didn't give up my hobbies when I had kids. I now have kids I can teach about my hobbies (and am having a blast with the older daughter teaching mountain biking right now). I still travel - just with my family in tow on many trips. I still have my projects around the house. Working on a downstairs bathroom now, and just finished staining the deck last night with the help of both my kids... Do I get things done as fast? No. Managing schedules for four people takes more work and sacrifice at times. But it doesn't mean I died and gave my life outside of kids up...

You make your choice, I'll make mine. I don't judge people who don't have kids. I've got family members who've made that choice, and for them, that's great. I've made my choice, and for me, its great.
 
At 3 years and 2 months my daughter still doesn't sleep through the night.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
We had one child; we might have had another if the first had slept though the night more than once in the first 16 months. That said, having just one kid save us a ton of money and kept us out of appliance vehicle purgatory.
To each his own...
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
There’s a quote that goes something like: responsible men plant trees whose shade they will never sit underneath. Not saying it’s truth or that you even need to care, but it appears to come from a time when every generation being selfless meant that future generations had a mild assurance of decent living.


I don't buy that for a second. Breeding doesn't help assure "decent living". Quite the opposite. Animal shelters and inner cities are both the result of, "planting too many trees". The end result of both is too much shade, and not enough sunshine. Life is what you as an individual make of it. This nonsense that it is somehow "a duty" to reproduce is just that.... Nonsense.

We have more people living in this country than ever before. 327+ MILLION. Compare that to the 50's when it was 157 MILLION. Or less than half. The quality of life was simpler, and in many cases people would argue better back then.

Today it's all but impossible to find anything that isn't over crowded. Especially on weekends. Highways, stores, restaurants. Just about everything except NASCAR. Between runaway "immigration", (which is more like an invasion), and people breeding like rats, this country is fast becoming overrun. Much like sex, drugs, and alcohol, just because a little is good, it doesn't mean more is better. We are already well past the, "too much" part of the end of that statement.


I don't think Reddy's post was about that (procreate as much as possible).
It is about the thinking of some older generations where your life's work is to make it easier for the next generations....
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Wife and I are in our 30s, we both work full time, and we have two young daughters (2 year old and 5 month old). There's no way we could pay all of our bills with just one of us working. We used to have my wife's parents watching the girls full-time, but my father in law's health has been deteriorating recently, and my mother in law is recovering from a broken pelvis, so we had to put the girls in daycare. Daycare costs $532 per week. My in-laws pay half of the daycare bill since we can't afford it on our own.
2006 Ford Ranger Sport
1992 Honda Accord EX
2004 Honda CR-V LX
1994 Ford Bronco XLT (project)
2011 Cadillac Escalade ESV (wife's)


That's pretty low/judgemental man.


It was pretty low, but kinda to the point. 5 vehicles for 2 drivers. They might not amount to a lot of money if sold, but, when one doesn't make enough to get by, the first thing to do is to sell what they can so as to pay the bills. I understand: if they were worth $16k, then it's way less than 32 weeks of day care (since he needs to keep at least one if not two). But...

I'm not sure the comment is judgmental. Unpopular, perhaps. Perhaps I need to be schooled on what a judgmental opinion is. I always thought "judgement" was something that had to be acted upon. But in common vernacular "to judge someone" seems to mean to hold an opinion that upsets the person, or is inflammatory, or is insulting. What am I missing?
 
I'll just say this: Life has never been 'easy'. I had typed up a bunch of personal experiences of family, but then thought better of posting it.

Those that think previous generations had it easy, are looking at history through rose-colored glasses.
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I'll just say this: Life has never been 'easy'. I had typed up a bunch of personal experiences of family, but then thought better of posting it.

Those that think previous generations had it easy, are looking at history through rose-colored glasses.


I think there is one generation born in the 20th century that had it wayyyyyy easier than the others during that century. The last generation that could support a large family on a single income including multiple cars and travel.
I'll give you a hint: I'm 29 and they are my parents.
 
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I'll just say this: Life has never been 'easy'. I had typed up a bunch of personal experiences of family, but then thought better of posting it.

Those that think previous generations had it easy, are looking at history through rose-colored glasses.


I think there is one generation born in the 20th century that had it wayyyyyy easier than the others during that century. The last generation that could support a large family on a single income including multiple cars and travel.
I'll give you a hint: I'm 29 and they are my parents.


I'll give you a hint: One example doesn't include everyone. There were people that could do that during the Great Depression, too.
 
Im 55 and had 3 kids in my early 20s. They are all adults and working on my grand kids now. I have one so far and a second on the way. Kids are okay. Grand kids are great!
 
Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZZman


Do you think cost is keeping the number of kids down or have we become more selfish over time and want "our" time?


Just curious how having "our" time would be selfish?




I have had people say I am selfish for not having kids. Really? How many people have kids "to take care of me when I am old." Isn't that selfish?


Heck, when people ask me why I don't want to have kids, I flat out tell them it's BECAUSE I'm selfish. I like me, my things, vacationing with grown people, going out on Wednesday nights until midnight and still getting a solid night's sleep before work the next day, WITHOUT having to get up and feed a flock of children.

I'm 29 and have LOTS of friends who have children, some already 10+ years old. Thanks to the joy that is Facebook, it's not hard to see where many of these people are in life and let me tell you, it sure doesn't look like "fun". I like that I was able to buy my first house at 24, make enough money to tuck a decent amount away into my retirement account, and have enough left over to support an incredibly fun lifestyle without having to worry about burdens (yes, I do view things that don't fit my plan as burdens, a.k.a. children).

I think I'll be happy for a long time with my dogs and my wonderful girlfriend.
 
Originally Posted By: 28oz
It's hard to see that since I grew up poor and had to fight for every scrap I've ever had. Just my experience. YMMV, of course.

But you did it to yourself so don't complain.

Originally Posted By: andyd
The socio/economic conditions that require both parents to work outside the home are just plain wrong.

No..what is wrong is having kids (you can't afford) in the present socio/economic conditions.

Wife and I raised 2 put them thru college, etc, etc, etc. In another life I would never have kids. We love our kids, but since they left...life has been a blast!!
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: 28oz
It's hard to see that since I grew up poor and had to fight for every scrap I've ever had. Just my experience. YMMV, of course.

But you did it to yourself so don't complain.



Did what to myself? Grow up poor? Not sure what you mean.
 
I’m concerned that the poorer the country the more kids the families produce. Education helps immensely. Many European and South American countries are doing very well at getting their formally large birth rates down. I’ve heard that the daytime soaps were very useful to bring down the number of children per family in some South American countries. The Soaps depicted small families and apparently it was emulated.
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
I’m concerned that the poorer the country the more kids the families produce. Education helps immensely. Many European and South American countries are doing very well at getting their formally large birth rates down. I’ve heard that the daytime soaps were very useful to bring down the number of children per family in some South American countries. The Soaps depicted small families and apparently it was emulated.


I recall seeing that, Smithsonian or National Geographic. I recall that the audience was seeing empowered women (in the soaps) controlling various aspects of their lives. The audience (largely women) in turn where starting to do likewise. Would not have thought a soap as having a positive influence.
 
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