Has Ford made G05 backward compatible yet?

[doitmyself]

According to Ford's web site, they stress NOT to put G05 in vehicles that came with green. In 2002, Escorts up to July came with green, after that they came with G05.

Do you really think they changed engine components to accept the G05?

Why ask? My son's "new" '99 escort has Gold fluid in it. My daughter's 2002 has green.

What's the chance of the Gold damaging the '99. Should we change it out?

Thanks.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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doitmyself:

According to Ford's web site, they stress NOT to put G05 in vehicles that came with green. ....

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All I see is:

http://www.motorcraft.com/products.do?item=6

"Only use where specified. Do not mix this product with systems originally equipped with any green-colored, conventional engine coolant such as Motorcraft® Premium Engine Coolant, meeting Ford Material Specification ESE-M97B44-A or any orange-colored,extended-life engine coolant such as Motorcraft® Specialty Orange Engine Coolant, meeting Ford Material Specification WSS-M97B44-D"

All I get out of this is:

- "use it where specified" .... typical OEM CYA weasel words

- "Do not mix this product with" .... any other coolants. Good standard advice.

If you flush the existing green coolant out, there's no reason why you can't use G-05.


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[Big Jim]

I can't remember the exact wording, but when Ford introduced the Gold coolant, they indicated that they were studying the posibility of backfitting it. I sort of doubt that they will end up approving it due to perceived liabilities.

Since "conventional" green coolant is getting harder and harder to find, this may end up happening by default. What are you going to do when the only "green" coolant is Prestone "for all makes and models"? Evidently the Prestone stuff is most nearly the same as their "Dexcool" except it is died green instead of orange.

Many have use G05 in other than original equipment applications without any reports of problems. I wouldn't be worried. It's better stuff anyway.

 

[Ray H]

Given that G-05 in its various OEM iterations worldwide has an established track record well over two decades, I would be willing to bet any Ford product, past through present, would do fine with it as long as the original green stuff is flushed out first. I'm not singling Ford out specifically, either - all three American auto manufacturers seem to be a day late and a dollar short on their recommendations more often than not. One thing, though - if you've got a cooling system leak, fix it before you do anything else.

 

[doitmyself]

I agree with all of you , but if you dig deeper into Ford's Web site (Premium gold coolant, TSB's, etc.) here is what you find:

Premium Gold Coolant: "Use only where specified. Do not use this product in systems originally equipped with any green-colored, conventional engine coolant such as Motorcraft® Premium Engine Coolant, meeting Ford Specification ESE-M97B44-A."

TSB 02-3-4 : Testing is currently underway to determine the backward compatibility of Motorcraft Premium Gold Coolant in vehicles equipped with the green-colored conventional coolant.......Until the final test results are available and deemed acceptable, DO NOT USE(Their empahasis)the yellow colored Motorcraft Premium gold Coolant in systems equipped with the green-colored Motorcraft......

They make it seem like they changed something in 2002 to their engines and that the previous engines might not handle the G05.

I suppose they are trying not to have the Dexcool type debacle happen to them

Thanks all. I will see if I can find someone "in-the know" at Ford for some truth. What do you think -maybe the guy at the Ford service counter? Or, the counter guy at Auto Zone....maybe Wal Mart???

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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doitmyself:

.... They make it seem like they changed something in 2002 to their engines and that the previous engines might not handle the G05. ....

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You might want to look at some part numbers on hoses, water pumps, gaskets, and radiators.

I don't see any across-the-board changes.

Zerex/Valvoline seems to believe their G-05 can be used in a wide variety of vehicles.

One of my buddies with a radiator shop had been using Mercedes coolant for everything for years and swore by it before it became OEM on Ford and Chrysler.

Strikes me what you're reading is a lot of CYA by the legal beagles.


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[Big Jim]

Along that thought, Ford used Dexcool in the 99 and newer Cougar. I cannot find any different part numbers for head gaskets, hoses, or water pumps between the Cougar and it's platform mate, the Contour. Yet, Ford doesn't want Dexcool in Contours.

 

[Kestas]

I agree with the consensus.

My take on it is that I haven't seen any radical changes in alloys or materials used in the cooling system over the years or across the manufacturers, nor have I seen radical changes in pressures, temperatures, or methodology of cooling a vehicle.

The only exception would be the use of a clear, pressurized overflow tank in modern vehicles. This reduces the introduction of air into the system over previous designs, making Dexcool less of a problem.

Therefore, you should be able to use any coolant you desire without harming the system as long as the old coolant is completely flushed out. I say go ahead and use G 05.

 

[tdimaniac]

the valvoline coolant technical director, david tutcotte, wrote that the g-05 can repalce the green in older cars:

"HOAT/hybrid G-05 for new Ford, Chrysler, and European applications like Mercedes. G-05 can also be used in heavy-duty applications like Cummins, Deere, or DDC/MTU. It can also be used to replace green coolant in older cars. Zerex G-05 is dyed yellow to aid application crossover."

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/DTurcotte_Mag_53_g.pdf

i am planning on replacing a 94 ford water pump this weekend (4.0L with about 205,000 miles on it), and the replacement pump manufacturer specifically recommends using a new long life coolant. i am going to use the g-05 after i make sure to flush out all the old green stuff (triple rinse with distilled water)

 

[Big Jim]

Evidently some dealers are using the new coolant only as well, even though there has been nothing from Ford to sanction it.

 

[oilmanatwork]

I read in a trade magazine (SSGM)up here in Canada. Something along the lines of. The newer coolants must be used in newer vehicals. Refering to new Fords I think. Because older green coolant can actualy cuase water pump seal failures.

THey have these articals online too. I'll try and find a link. I was cruising the BITSOG coolant forums today trying to learn more on this very subject.

 

[oilmanatwork]

Its somewhere in here.

http://www.autoserviceworld.com/

Closer

http://www.autoserviceworld.com/issues_SGM/past_issues.asp?PC=SGM

Found it

http://www.autoserviceworld.com/iss...30&story_id=79069124846&issue=05012005&PC=SGM

 

[Big Jim]

I just stumbled onto something that shows that Ford has sanctioned a limited ammount of backfitting of their "Premium Gold" (what we know as GO5).

Follow this link to a very comprehensive Ford Chemicals catalog in PDF. You will find a coolant usage chart on pages 72 and 73. You will see that most Ford products from 99 and up can be converted to GO5. The exceptions are the Cougars that originally came with Dexcool, and Villagers.

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/pdf/catalog.pdf

 

[tdimaniac]

well i changed to g-05 in the '94 ford ranger 4.0L after a through drain-flush-clean-flush-rinse-rinse-fill cycle. the temp gage now reads a little to the left of NORMAL, it used to read right on the N, but that is probably because most of the crud was removed from the system. if i have any coolant related problems i will post. i would not have done this if not for the great info on BITOG, thanks!

 

[SR77]

Big Jim, thanks for the link to the Ford Retro Specs. I have a 96 Explorer 5.0L V8 and I am planning on getting the coolant system machined flushed soon and was going to switch to G-05. After seeing that Ford link, I want to know why Ford stopped at 1999 vehicles it recommends can use G-05(Motorcraft Gold). What is the difference between the cooling system on the 99's from my 96? Is there inything in G-05 that could cause harm in older cooling systems? Has anyone successfully used G-05 in pre 99 Fords with proven success? If all of the auto stores are not carrying the old "green" coolant anymore, what do they expect pre 99 owners to do? Only option is to by from the Dealer and get ripped! Don't understand why they stopped at 1999 vehicles but Zerex says it can be used in all older vehicles with "green" coolant.

 

[Big Jim]

Many here have posted that they have used G05 in most anything with no trouble. I have no idea why Ford stopped the backward compatibility at 1999.

I do know that I have had Texaco Dexcool in my 1998 Ford Contour SVT since it was a year old. I have had absolutely no trouble with it. It does everthing that Texaco said it would do. Now that it has over 200,000 miles on it, I'm inclined to keep using Dexcool. I have toyed with the idea of changing to G05 so that it would use the same coolant as my 03 Escape.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by SR77:
Is there inything in G-05 that could cause harm in older cooling systems?

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This little tidbit from Valvoline about their Zerex G-05:

"It [G-05] ... will not harm hoses, plastics, or original vehicle finishes."

Ford was on record at one time questioning DEX-COOL's effects on certain polymers used in the company's gaskets. Ford now has issues with DEX-COOL's ability to control waterpump impeller pitting and perforating. What I'm personally not certain of is how much of these "concerns" are really valid or whether they're corporate posturing against arch-rival, GM. There've been issues raised about the possibility that DEX-COOL doesn't fully protect soldered cooling system components, but it has yet to be substantiated in controlled laboratory testing. The front of the G-05 jugs lists applications by automaker and then concludes the list in small lettering just above the quantity description with, "vehicles requiring green coolant". So, to summarize, I doubt you'd run into any problems using G-05 in a pre-2000 Ford (or any othr make). Posts by a number of longtime ricer owners who've used G-05 are also unanimous in their praise for G-05 - and not just because it retails for upwards of half what the stealerships charge for the OEM syrups. On paper, G-05 appears the current best of all possible worlds, since it's even OK'd for use in heavy-duty diesel engine applications due to its ability to control cavitation. It's reduced, but still effective silicate level, offers immediate corrosion protection against trapped air and "healing" in the event the OAT layer is damaged in use. It may take several months or several thousand miles (whichever comes first) before the OAT can establish or re-establish fully effective depth. I've had the Prestone-made "SuperTech" DEX-COOL clone in my Hyundai V6 for over a year with no problems, too, but next spring before the hot weather sets in, I'll flush and change it out with the G-05 I recently purchased. I also noted on the jug that G-05 is claiming 5 yr./150,000 mile protection. At some point previously, it "only" claimed 4 yr./100,000 mile protection - not that I would personally leave any brew in my cooling system that long. Mercedes-Benz has specified G-05 for over two decades in all their cars. That's not a bad track record.

 

[doitmyself]

Ray,

Zerex's "conventional" green fluid also lists 5yr./150,000 mile protection. I wonder how they do that? Check it out at their website.

 

[Ray H]

Oh, I did, and well, I don't get quite the same description on my monitor. If you look closer, Zerex 578-2 coolant (green marker dye, white jug) is listed for 5yr./100,000 mile protection. It's also listed as suitable for passenger cars, light trucks, and heavy duty vehicles (when used with a charge of supplemental coolant additive). This ain't your father's high silicate, old-style "Prestone" formula - it's silicate level is reduced to 250 PPM or less. For just a little more money (currently $10.99/gallon at my local Pep Boys), G-05 is already pre-charged and contains both solder friendly reduced silicate content AND gasket friendly, OAT chemistry for a one-two punch against corrosion. There's gotta be something to this stuff when both Mercedes-Benz and arch-rival BMW endorse G-05 as the only acceptable antifreeze/coolant for their engines' cooling systems.

 

[wiswind]

Last I looked....the Green Prestone was not available anymore. I have Prestone in my car right now....I claims to be compatible with both green "regular" and the long life coolants. I did a very complete flush.....it looked more yellow to me. They state that if used with a "normal" life product......it will be a normal life product. If used with a "long" life product.....or as I am.....that it will be a long life product. I still plan to change each year (25-30K miles).