Generator on Sale..thoughts?

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Well guys, I still say that if it's a Honda you can know it will be a quality item. Automobiles, generators, lawn mowers, outboard engine and so on.

I would be concerned about are the cheap junk generators, lower output at altitude, lower output in relation to rated capacity and short lifespan are the most common.. Some generators are different at Home Depot vs Tractor Supply even when they have the same model number. Champion, Generac, etc all do this. Surprised me when found that out. Same with lawn tractors/mowers and other items.

Honda and Yamaha generators are the same no matter where you buy them.



Honda generators are twice the price of my WEN and Yamahas are, well, more? I remember seeing one on sale a while back, but I want to say it was still a couple of hundred dollars more, still.

For the price, you could buy two WEN generators, run them in parallel for more power capacity, and throw one of them away if it fails. I don't know the stats, but I doubt the Honda is 100% more reliable than a WEN...right? Please tell me I'm right - I own a WEN!


I own a 5 year old Yamaha EF2000is inverter. It has 1400+ hours on it so far and runs like brand new. I use it during summer at our camp/cottage. It gets run approx. 6 hrs/day. Very easy on fuel and now that it's broken in, no longer consumes oil. It was relatively expensive but less than an equivalent Honda and the engine is actually better made than the Honda engine. No plastic internal parts.

Prior to buying the Yamaha, I had bought a brand new Hyundai 2000 watt inverter generator. It was heavy, louder, used more fuel and blew up with only 175 hours on it.

Bottom line is that if you buy cheap, it's gamble how long it will last. None of the Chinese units will be as durable as a genuine Honda or Yamaha. I've read reports of the Yamaha EF2000 having 20K hours on it and still running! That's incredible.

One important thing to watch out for now are Yamahas and Hondas built in China. I'd be leery about spending that kind of money for an unproven product. Some say they're good. Some say otherwise.

 

[krismoriah72]

Im trying to stay $500 or so and that puts me out of the yamaha or hondas.


Is the Generac $100 better than the Harbor Freight Predator?

Is the Champion at the same price better than the Harbor Freight Predator?

I would like to buy at brick and mortar-
Lowes- Champion
Rural King- Generac
Harbor Freight- Predator

 

[UncleDave]

The Wen might be great, could be a bargain or a pile. Who knows?

How long has Wen been in the genset business? They look like hand tool company.
Do they have them made by someone else or is this line in house?
What is the lash inspection interval? I can't find it on their inverter units.
Where do the engine and inverter assembly come from?
If it needs warranty work does it have to go back to Wen?
How easy are parts to get? Can I go pick a carb up off a shelf like the others?
You can get parts for the other two at motorcycle shops.

I don't know or can't say how reliable the Wen may or may not be but I can speak firsthand to both the Honda and Yamaha longevity.

How many hours do you use it a year? Lets touch base in 1000 hours or so and see how its going.

Im intrigued and would love to find an actual quality replacement for my Japanese brands.
My question list comes from having been disappointed in this quest for a long time.


UD

 

[cronk]

If you are looking at a 2000w inverter, I would suggest you get the Champion 2000w inverter.
I bought one 3 years ago, and have been thrilled with its performance. I was turned onto them on the RV forums, a lot of guys had been using them and they have proven to be very reliable.
They can be had for the same $450 price as Harbor Freight, from Amazon, Lowes(might have to buy online, free shipping to home or your local store)
and several other online sources.
The main reasons I would go wit the Champion:
1. The Champions have been around for several years and have a proven track record.
2. Parts availability. Any time I needed a part for a Harbor Freight item, it took a long time to get, sometimes having to ship from China.
Champion is headquartered in California, and they warehouse a complete parts inventory, and will sell parts direct to the consumer. I broke the air cleaner cover on my 3500w Champion, and had the part from Champion in CA to my doorstep in NY in just a few days. Their part pricing is also pretty inexpensive!
3. Customer service. Champion has techs that will talk to the consumer, even help you troubleshoot your unit if you are having a problem.
4. Warranty. Champion has a 3 year warranty! Harbor freight is 90 days.

Now I'm not saying the Harbor freight unit is bad, I have seen mostly good reviews, and a few bad, but since Champion prices their units pretty close to the HF units, just the 3 year warranty vs 90 days makes the Champion an no brainer!

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Well guys, I still say that if it's a Honda you can know it will be a quality item. Automobiles, generators, lawn mowers, outboard engine and so on.

I would be concerned about are the cheap junk generators, lower output at altitude, lower output in relation to rated capacity and short lifespan are the most common.. Some generators are different at Home Depot vs Tractor Supply even when they have the same model number. Champion, Generac, etc all do this. Surprised me when found that out. Same with lawn tractors/mowers and other items.

Honda and Yamaha generators are the same no matter where you buy them.



Honda generators are twice the price of my WEN and Yamahas are, well, more? I remember seeing one on sale a while back, but I want to say it was still a couple of hundred dollars more, still.

For the price, you could buy two WEN generators, run them in parallel for more power capacity, and throw one of them away if it fails. I don't know the stats, but I doubt the Honda is 100% more reliable than a WEN...right? Please tell me I'm right - I own a WEN!


I own a 5 year old Yamaha EF2000is inverter. It has 1400+ hours on it so far and runs like brand new. I use it during summer at our camp/cottage. It gets run approx. 6 hrs/day. Very easy on fuel and now that it's broken in, no longer consumes oil. It was relatively expensive but less than an equivalent Honda and the engine is actually better made than the Honda engine. No plastic internal parts.

Prior to buying the Yamaha, I had bought a brand new Hyundai 2000 watt inverter generator. It was heavy, louder, used more fuel and blew up with only 175 hours on it.

Bottom line is that if you buy cheap, it's gamble how long it will last. None of the Chinese units will be as durable as a genuine Honda or Yamaha. I've read reports of the Yamaha EF2000 having 20K hours on it and still running! That's incredible.

One important thing to watch out for now are Yamahas and Hondas built in China. I'd be leery about spending that kind of money for an unproven product. Some say they're good. Some say otherwise.


Good point. As you can tell, I don't use my generator very much - I purchased it after my son was born, along with an indoor-safe propane heater, just in case. We're happy using battery-powered lights and losing the ability to use larger electronics. I just didn't want us to freeze or lose all of our food in the fridge/freezer.

Time will tell if it's going to last a long time. If I get 10 years out of it with light use, I'll be very happy. At that point, the wife will probably have talked me into a whole-house solution, anyway. For me, this WEN generator bridges that gap nicely.

 

[Rab6715]

Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
I have a Champion 3500 watt generator that still runs but I am looking for a smaller one.

My Champion has a broken pull cord, the battery is totally dead (i have jumper cables that i jump start it with). The carb leaked on me so i put a cheap chinese ebay carb on it, the choke lever is broken so i have to carefully start it with a screwdriver.. other than that it runs great and does what its supposed to.


I have power outages where i live often, so it gets used many times per year. However i would like a small one to put in the bed of my sidebyside to go camping and also serve as a backup the next time this champion has an issue.


The Harbor Freight Predator 2000 is on sale now for $449.

NAPA has what looks to be its clone in blue for $600 on sale. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BHQBE2000

Amazon has a WEN that also looks to be a clone of the Predator https://www.amazon.com/WEN-56200i-2000-Watt-Generator-Compliant/dp/B00SMNLF4M

The Predator 2000 gets pretty good reviews..if the NAPA and WEN are both clones this must be a decent platform.

Thoughts?


Depends on what the generator is used for. For recreation/camping, and I was concerned about budget, I would probably buy a cheaper non Yamaha/Honda model. Something like a Champion, etc. If I were going to also be using it for power back-up, emergencies - hurricane's etc., I would not skimp on quality. You don't want to be running through a hurricane with some piece of junk that may or may not last. Buy once cry once, especially if you're really going to depend on the generator in the middle of the night. Also, be mindful of what you want to run, so you don't end up needing 6 gallons of gas every couple hours, usually not to practically during an emergency. 2-3K watts is a nice range and enough power usually for what you need to make it through the disaster. I personally have an Eu2000i and will be pairing with a new Eu2200i sometime soon. This gives a lot of flexibility to ramp up and down on power depending on what you need. The new Eu2200i has 120cc, vs the 79cc Yamaha. Yes, the Honda has a plastic cam and timing belt, but I wouldn't worry about those parts so much, failure rate is very low and parts costs/availability is very good. Both are good, and wouldn't have a problem buying either though.

 

[Rab6715]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Well guys, I still say that if it's a Honda you can know it will be a quality item. Automobiles, generators, lawn mowers, outboard engine and so on.

I would be concerned about are the cheap junk generators, lower output at altitude, lower output in relation to rated capacity and short lifespan are the most common.. Some generators are different at Home Depot vs Tractor Supply even when they have the same model number. Champion, Generac, etc all do this. Surprised me when found that out. Same with lawn tractors/mowers and other items.

Honda and Yamaha generators are the same no matter where you buy them.



Honda generators are twice the price of my WEN and Yamahas are, well, more? I remember seeing one on sale a while back, but I want to say it was still a couple of hundred dollars more, still.

For the price, you could buy two WEN generators, run them in parallel for more power capacity, and throw one of them away if it fails. I don't know the stats, but I doubt the Honda is 100% more reliable than a WEN...right? Please tell me I'm right - I own a WEN!


I own a 5 year old Yamaha EF2000is inverter. It has 1400+ hours on it so far and runs like brand new. I use it during summer at our camp/cottage. It gets run approx. 6 hrs/day. Very easy on fuel and now that it's broken in, no longer consumes oil. It was relatively expensive but less than an equivalent Honda and the engine is actually better made than the Honda engine. No plastic internal parts.

Prior to buying the Yamaha, I had bought a brand new Hyundai 2000 watt inverter generator. It was heavy, louder, used more fuel and blew up with only 175 hours on it.

Bottom line is that if you buy cheap, it's gamble how long it will last. None of the Chinese units will be as durable as a genuine Honda or Yamaha. I've read reports of the Yamaha EF2000 having 20K hours on it and still running! That's incredible.

One important thing to watch out for now are Yamahas and Hondas built in China. I'd be leery about spending that kind of money for an unproven product. Some say they're good. Some say otherwise.


I think all Yamaha EF2000i's are built in China. All of the ones I see locally for sale have made in China on them. I think a few years ago they were made in Japan, but not any longer. I'm not sure where my Eu2000i was made. The engine likely came from Thailand, while the casing might be USA or even Japan. I know the eu3000is is made in Japan still. I'm not too concerned about the OHC design with timing belt/plastic cam. Steel is better no doubt, but failure rate on the cam/timing belt is pretty low. I think I might swap my cam/belt out in 20 years, because I don't put on the mileage that you do, but it would still probably be good. I think the total cost of these parts is like $30-40, super cheap, but to take it apart is a bear, because its a split block, vs removable head. All other parts are highly durable - cast iron crank, dual bearings on the crank, iron liner. Both are good units, the Yamaha and Honda, only problem is their quality will most likely go down over time I fear.

 

[UncleDave]

The champion has a paltry 100 hour inspection interval - not even enough for a week long vacation. Same as a Briggs lawnmower.

The wen could be worse - who knows they dont say?!??!

A Honda or Yamaha built anywhere other than Japan is all about the parts made available to the assembly line - and keeping to the maintenance interval.
If the Chinese units have a lower lash interval or step back from the japanese spec- they are inferior - if the same, they are likely using Japanese parts but assembled in China.

Interesting the new predator 3500 shows a 300 hour lash interval - equal to the honda/ yamaha a step in the right direction!



UD

 

[krismoriah72]

I dont understand why no store other than Harbor Freight stocks the smaller 2000watt generators?

Every brick and mortar is online shopping only.

How can free shipping by UPS be cheaper for the manufacturer than putting them in the stores?

Its bound to cost alot to ship a Champion generator from the west coast to the east coast.

 

[boraticus]

I have equal appreciation for Honda & Yamaha. Now that Yamaha is built in China, that may change.

My Yamaha took forever to break in. It burned oil for the first 900 hours of use. Once it got into the 900 hr. range it started to use less oil. Now it still uses a bit but I can get a full 100 hours out of it without having to top it up. I keep an eye on it nonetheless.

Some the reports of longevity of the EF2000is with nothing but oil changes are remarkable. Mine has just over 1400 hours on it and all I've done is change oil. Most of it's running time is very low load. A couple lights, a satellite receiver and 42" led TV with the occasional few minutes running a microwave. Hopefully, it will hit 10,000+ hours one day.

 

[cronk]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The champion has a paltry 100 hour inspection interval - not even enough for a week long vacation. Same as a Briggs lawnmower.

The wen could be worse - who knows they dont say?!??!

A Honda or Yamaha built anywhere other than Japan is all about the parts made available to the assembly line - and keeping to the maintenance interval.
If the Chinese units have a lower lash interval or step back from the japanese spec- they are inferior - if the same, they are likely using Japanese parts but assembled in China.

Interesting the new predator 3500 shows a 300 hour lash interval - equal to the honda/ yamaha a step in the right direction!



UD


I've said it before and I'll say it again, recommend valve lash check intervals are not a good indicator of engine quality or reliability.
Honda recommends valve lash being checked every 200 hours or annually on its EU2200 generator, does that mean the Harbor Freight unit with the 300 hour interval is higher quality?
I think not!

 

[cronk]

A poster on an RV forum I frequent has a pair of Champion 2000i inverter generators he uses on a food truck.
This post made me think about him, so I went back and found his post.
He said he runs them 3-6 hours a day, 5 days a week, sometimes more.
If you average that out to 4.5 hours a day 5 days a week you get 22.5 hours a week.
52 weeks a year that is 1170 hours per year.
At his last post on the topic, he had them 5 years and they were still running fine, so 5 years at 1170 hours per year is 5850 hours.
Even if you deduct a couple weeks vacation every year, that is still over 5000 hours.
So obviously, Champion makes a good quality generator!

 

[krismoriah72]

Originally Posted By: cronk
A poster on an RV forum I frequent has a pair of Champion 2000i inverter generators he uses on a food truck.
This post made me think about him, so I went back and found his post.
He said he runs them 3-6 hours a day, 5 days a week, sometimes more.
If you average that out to 4.5 hours a day 5 days a week you get 22.5 hours a week.
52 weeks a year that is 1170 hours per year.
At his last post on the topic, he had them 5 years and they were still running fine, so 5 years at 1170 hours per year is 5850 hours.
Even if you deduct a couple weeks vacation every year, that is still over 5000 hours.
So obviously, Champion makes a good quality generator!


Yes i have watched alot youtube videos and also read some reviews and i believe it. The consensus is just too strong to deny that the champion 2000 is a great little generator and as of right now just about the cheapest.

I have pretty much made up my mind that I am going with Champion.


I stumbled upon another possible to throw into the mix if someone else is also looking at some point- Pulsar 2000 on ebay is the cheapest at $420 shipped currently.

This guy may be biased but if you watch his videos the pulsar is a pretty stout little generator.

 

[cronk]

I just checked the Pulsar web site for warranty, had to look in the PDF of the owners manual, on the last page, it states 1 year warranty.
So for $30-40 more, you get a 3 year warranty with the Champion.

I would also question the parts availability on the Pulsar brand.

 

[krismoriah72]

Originally Posted By: cronk
I just checked the Pulsar web site for warranty, had to look in the PDF of the owners manual, on the last page, it states 1 year warranty.
So for $30-40 more, you get a 3 year warranty with the Champion.

I would also question the parts availability on the Pulsar brand.


I agree. If you look at the Pulsar/Predator/Duramax and many others...they all look exactly the same with different color plastics.

Going to order a Champion..

 

[JimPghPA]

The Generac generator in the video is their model IQ2000 that is rated for 1600 Watts continuous 2000 Watts peak. So it would show an overload with the 1850 Watt hair dryer load.

 

[Lubener]

I wouldn't consider anything less than 5500 watt continuous capacity.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: cronk
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The champion has a paltry 100 hour inspection interval - not even enough for a week long vacation. Same as a Briggs lawnmower.

The wen could be worse - who knows they dont say?!??!

A Honda or Yamaha built anywhere other than Japan is all about the parts made available to the assembly line - and keeping to the maintenance interval.
If the Chinese units have a lower lash interval or step back from the japanese spec- they are inferior - if the same, they are likely using Japanese parts but assembled in China.

Interesting the new predator 3500 shows a 300 hour lash interval - equal to the honda/ yamaha a step in the right direction!



UD


I've said it before and I'll say it again, recommend valve lash check intervals are not a good indicator of engine quality or reliability.
Honda recommends valve lash being checked every 200 hours or annually on its EU2200 generator, does that mean the Harbor Freight unit with the 300 hour interval is higher quality?
I think not!



..and Ill continue to disagree with you.

How is is lash inspection time NOT an indicator of the quality of the metal in the head and durability and quality of the valve train?


Which Harbor freight unit has a 300 hour interval? - thats big jump from their typical 100 hours, but even the new predator 3500 has moved to 300.

A 300 hour interval would tell me they beefed up the material in the valve train and head considerably from the units Ive seen prior and make me feel a lot better about the unit as a whole - does lash inspection a whole engine make- no, but its the best single indicator of parts quality one can get from a maintenance schedule.



If the price were identical and you got to choose between a unit with 100 hour and another with 2 which would you choose?



UD

 

[UncleDave]

Sorry I forgot Harbor Freight = Predator I think 300 is pretty competitive.
Is the inverter , and rest of the rotational assembly as good don't know and likely not - but at least I can it a week on vacation without having to go into it.

In the case of the champions I never said they "were no good", or "couldn't last" just the they were not the equal of the japanese units.
Having to work on something 1-3X an otherwise identical unit becomes a real chore - unless you ignore the maintenance item. Most guys do.

I managed to kill a honda valve WITIHN the interval running it flat out in parallel with another in a commercial endeavor, does that mean they are bad?
They arent " bullet proof" as their lore would have you believe.

In the case of the food truck guy we know nothing about the load on it, or how high the unit is or what it leaks down to- so they could run great!, but be gross polluters or leak like sieves, he could be beating them or they could be practically resting just off idle - until we know a lot more about those hours and what condition its really in its hard to say how meaningful the stories of high hours are.


UD

 

[krismoriah72]

This is just a prediction but i think Champion is going another way with the small portables. I noticed that the square stackable that i ordered is on clearance now at Rural King..not sure but i think they are going to change designs to look like the Honda/Yamaha etc. These are due to be released in April 2018