Fram XG3600 8K miles

[Coprolite]

BOF- You make me laugh.

For me, the big writing on the side of the box saying that it is rated for 15,000 miles is enough. I wouldn't see FRAM using the excuse of 1 oci vs. 2 or even 5 if you want to be part of the new old school thinking (15k filter -new, 3k oci - old) as any reason to deny coverage. I didn't see any small print on the box. Is there any?

I hate to assume, but I would bet some serious testing has been done to give the filter a 15,000 mile rating.

In the end, you can do as you wish. I bet you will never run an Ultra for two OCI. I look forward to not changing the filter sometimes. Removing skid plates and cleaning up the mess of the old oil isn't the fun part of my oil obsession. Heck, I even have a Mityvac, so I can change the oil from up top when presented the opportunity.

The best part about a capitalist economy is that we can all choose to do it the way we'd like, to a certain degree.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I have a MC FL-400s oil filter from my last OCI but I only have a hacksaw to cut it open with. That was the OCI filter that was causing engine rattle upon startup.
I will cut that one open plus the current one on my engine, soon!

Hey, if I use an air hose to clean my air filter can I use it twice?

 

[panthermike]

Looks good! I switched to the Ultras as well they seem to be a great filter.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It's rated for 15K ... so why not do it if the engine is clean. Plus, I'm sure FRAM has some safety margin in their 15K FCI spec.

As I have said before, "To each his own!"
I "WON'T" do it until I have test results that it is ok to do so. Are people that tight or hard up that they can't buy another oil filter?

You won't do it because you aren't confident enough yet in your filter knowledge.

The Fram Ultras (and the previous generation XG which this is) can carry HUGE amounts of dirt, hence the 15K rating. The Fram XG2 for my Ford is rated for 30 grams capacity... which is huge for that size of filter! How... it's a full synthetic, depth media... which can carry more than a surface loaded cellulose media per square inch of surface area. The cellulose filters, or blended media fitlers, that I have specs for list about half that capacity in the same application and some of them are rated for 10K miles or at least for the "mfr's recommended interval" which could be 7.5K. There is a lot of overkill built into all decent quality filters.

No doubt you have seen the paper clip ad from Purolater. They tout one of their filters as carrying 13 grams, which equals 31 paper clips, they say. The XG is almost three times that. How long would it take your engine to generate 30 grams of contaminants? I don't really know. If it does so in a single OCI, even a single 15K OCI, you got BIG trouble in River City! That's a full OUNCE of junk. If you divide 30 grams, 3000 milligrams, by 15,000 miles that means the engine would have to generate 0.2 mg per mile to fully load the filter in 15K miles. That's a lot! I haven't seen much data on exactly how much wear is generated per mile of operation but the few I have show very small amounts in the thousandths (i.e. 0.0002) per mile. You'd about have to run in the desert with a no air filter to fill an 30 gram filter in 15K miles. An exaggeration but you get the point.

FYI, I have about 12K on a P1, which is rated at 16 grams for my application according to Puro, and I've set up a differential pressure setup on it. DP is one way to measure the load on the filter. With the 10W30 oil at 165F (it's been cold here) I am seeing only about 4 psi DP @ 2000 rpm on a filter rated to bypass at 8-16 (a spec I don't fully understand but assume to be it begins to open at 8psi). I got the oil up to a whopping 175 once on a warm day recently and it was down to 3 psi @ 2000 rpm. I don't have new fitler specs yet to compare this to, but my initial though is that this fitetr doesn't have much of a load yet. FYI, I am running a bypass filter, which is helping take some of the load but this filter ran 5K miles before the bypass was installed.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

JA, I know all about your testing and am very impressed. I have been following your results each time you reply with an update.
And, you're probabally correct about me not having enough knowledge yet to believe in using a oil filter for (2) OCI's. I am also NOT a FRAM user BUT will use a FRAM Ultra on my next OCI.

But, for only (1) OCI.

 

[Jim Allen]

The Fram Ultra is only one full synthetic filter. Any such filter will have more capacity for long OCIs. One OCI is fine, Blue, just make sure it's 15K on the Ultra ( : < ).

Oh and Fram qualifies that 15K recommendation by saying "with synthetic oil." Not sure what the oil has to do with filter capacity but its worthy of note.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The Fram Ultra is only one full synthetic filter. Any such filter will have more capacity for long OCIs. One OCI is fine, Blue, just make sure it's 15K on the Ultra ( : < ).

Oh and Fram qualifies that 15K recommendation by saying "with synthetic oil." Not sure what the oil has to do with filter capacity but its worthy of note.

Thank you sir. IF I were to use conventional oil (M5K) what would you recommend on an OCI with the FU? I see 2010_FX4 has pushed this oil beyond 5K miles.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: steve20
Re: reinstalling used filter----I would be more concerned about causing some internal damage to the media seating surface, or internal media itself than a visible gasket leak


Steve, how would you cause internal damage by reusing a filter?

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The Fram Ultra is only one full synthetic filter. Any such filter will have more capacity for long OCIs. One OCI is fine, Blue, just make sure it's 15K on the Ultra ( : < ).

Oh and Fram qualifies that 15K recommendation by saying "with synthetic oil." Not sure what the oil has to do with filter capacity but its worthy of note.

Thank you sir. IF I were to use conventional oil (M5K) what would you recommend on an OCI with the FU? I see 2010_FX4 has pushed this oil beyond 5K miles.

Minimum 7.5K IMO but a lot depends on the driving style and the engine. Are we talking a Ford Modular? With a good driving situation, I think 10K is a breeze but you should verify at least the first time with a UOA, maybe get a sample at 8K and get the TBN to make sure the oil isn't wasted. 2010_FX4 is out to 10K, I think, and is still using a MC FL870s. My 12K is is conventional, BTW. At 10K, you'd still have a lot of life left in the filter but it probably wouldn't be safe to run it to 20K, so you could change it without feeling too guilty. FYI, I've run P1s to 10K on our Honda on a semi-syn oil but I'd have to warn you that doesn't necessarily mean you could do the same with your (I presume) Ford. But I think it's very likely, but you're the pilot and mechanic.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

JA, I own a 07 F150, 4.2 V6, 97K miles.
BTW, I had to travel to North Louisiana (178 miles one way) this past Monday. The posted speed limit was 75 mph but I did 60-65 mph and averaged 22.8 mpg!

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Hey, if I use an air hose to clean my air filter can I use it twice?

Air filters I just whack against a tree a few times and put them back in!

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

Oh and Fram qualifies that 15K recommendation by saying "with synthetic oil." Not sure what the oil has to do with filter capacity but its worthy of note.


Because you know some dummy out there is going to see the 15k and decide that means his Supertech dino is now 15k oil. He's out there somewhere....

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Oh and Fram qualifies that 15K recommendation by saying "with synthetic oil." Not sure what the oil has to do with filter capacity but its worthy of note.


I think FRAM (and any long OCI filter maker) recommends full synthetic because they don't want someone running conventional oil for 10 or 15K miles which could sludge up the system and clog the filter.

Of course, anyone with common sense would know you could run the Ultra for 15K miles using conventional oil by doing 3 times 5K OCIs or 2 times 7.5K OCIs and keep the engine clean and sludge free.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Of course, anyone with common sense would know you could run the Ultra for 15K miles using conventional oil by doing 3 times 5K OCIs or 2 times 7.5K OCIs and keep the engine clean and sludge free.

ZeeOSix ~~>

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Will do two OCI's of 7,500 miles each...on each filter. My engine is clean...so I'm confident that the ULTRA can easily handle 15,000 miles.

Are you using the same filter for (2) OCI's, or (2) seperate filters? The wording in your statement is confusing.

Sounds like he's got two Ultra filters, and planning on doing 2 times 7,500 OCI, for a total duration of 15K miles on each filter. So his two Ultra filters will last him 4 OCIs, which will be equal to 30K miles total.


Sorry for the confusion....I'm doing two 7500 OCI's on one Ultra filter.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

#2
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/synthetic-mistakes

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Of course, anyone with common sense would know you could run the Ultra for 15K miles using conventional oil by doing 3 times 5K OCIs or 2 times 7.5K OCIs and keep the engine clean and sludge free.

ZeeOSix ~~>

ZeeOSix, when I did the smiley fishing thing that was you trying to get me hooked on the 4 times for 2 Ultra filters, which you know I could not be caught.

Maybe, just maybe, I might get

one day.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Of course, anyone with common sense would know you could run the Ultra for 15K miles using conventional oil by doing 3 times 5K OCIs or 2 times 7.5K OCIs and keep the engine clean and sludge free.

ZeeOSix ~~>

ZeeOSix, when I did the smiley fishing thing that was you trying to get me hooked on the 4 times for 2 Ultra filters, which you know I could not be caught.

Maybe, just maybe, I might get

one day.

But that's exactly what he said he's doing ... 2 OCIs per Ultra. I'm sure he'll have no issues whatsoever.

I'm going to do 2 times 5K OCIs on one Ultra with conventional oil (Mobil Super 5000). Should work out great.

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Sorry for the confusion....I'm doing two 7500 OCI's on one Ultra filter.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But that's exactly what he said he's doing ... 2 OCIs per Ultra.

I know. But it makes more sense, to me anyway, to just buy and install a new filter every OCI.
#2
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/synthetic-mistakes

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But that's exactly what he said he's doing ... 2 OCIs per Ultra.

I know. But it makes more sense, to me anyway, to just buy and install a new filter every OCI.
#2
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/synthetic-mistakes


But what #2 fails to realize in the link you provided is that if you use full synthetic oil with a good oil filter then that oil will remain clean over the entire OCI. There are many members here that have done UOA on synthetic oils that show they do very well with 10K+ OCIs. I'd have no problem running a full synthetic oil with a good long OCI filter advertised for 10K+ mile FCIs.