dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
They might as well make it 50k miles, because when they ALSO include the "Use our filter for 20k miles, or ... while following the OEM OFCI ... or one year ... whatever comes first ..." mantra, the upper end mileage they display for marketing purposes is completely moot. I don't know of a car or LD truck out there that's going to have an IOLM getting out to 20k miles. So the risk is non-existent for Fram. They can claim a super-duper long FCI because they know there's no way in Hades the OFCI will ever get there because of OTHER limits that will be incurred first.
Not unlike the hype over Mobil 1 annual oil; same limits apply.
Yes, but marketing rhetoric aside (and I understand and agree with what you are saying), will it actually last 20K miles without tearing or failing in some other way--meaning are they able to hide behind words or do they actually have a product that will do what they say? Based upon the ones that I used out to 17K, I say no problem at all and I would guess they moved the mark from 15K to 20K to compete with M1 filters.
Good question ...
My observations are limited, but (anecdotally) at least worth mentioning.
Some may recall I did some experimentation with our old 1995 Villager with the Nissan VG30E engine several years back. I ran a 10k mile OFCI with ST dino lube and a Purolator Classic white can (back before torn media was a known issue). UOA and filter autopsy showed no ill effects. I then ran a 15k mile OFCI on ST dino lube and a MC filter. Again - no ill effects. And this was on a van that was truly "severe" in the sense of soccer mom use; frequent starts and stops, short trips and long runs, cold and hot, etc. By the OEM criteria, I should have been doing OFCIs every 3k miles. And yet running 5x that factor (five times!), the UOAs and filters help up perfectly well.
So, you question is valid, but I suspect the Fram Ultra is WAY overcapacitized, even at 20k miles. Syn media with wire backing? What's likely to fail there? I routinely run "normal" cellulose filters to 10k miles. Should an Ultra not outlast them? I would think so. I would think their product is fully capable of even extreme use at 20k miles. It's just that they have an easy out in that most every scenario will limit their FCI risk long before the 20k, likely due to OEM criteria that they adopt into their limits.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
They might as well make it 50k miles, because when they ALSO include the "Use our filter for 20k miles, or ... while following the OEM OFCI ... or one year ... whatever comes first ..." mantra, the upper end mileage they display for marketing purposes is completely moot. I don't know of a car or LD truck out there that's going to have an IOLM getting out to 20k miles. So the risk is non-existent for Fram. They can claim a super-duper long FCI because they know there's no way in Hades the OFCI will ever get there because of OTHER limits that will be incurred first.
Not unlike the hype over Mobil 1 annual oil; same limits apply.
Yes, but marketing rhetoric aside (and I understand and agree with what you are saying), will it actually last 20K miles without tearing or failing in some other way--meaning are they able to hide behind words or do they actually have a product that will do what they say? Based upon the ones that I used out to 17K, I say no problem at all and I would guess they moved the mark from 15K to 20K to compete with M1 filters.
Good question ...
My observations are limited, but (anecdotally) at least worth mentioning.
Some may recall I did some experimentation with our old 1995 Villager with the Nissan VG30E engine several years back. I ran a 10k mile OFCI with ST dino lube and a Purolator Classic white can (back before torn media was a known issue). UOA and filter autopsy showed no ill effects. I then ran a 15k mile OFCI on ST dino lube and a MC filter. Again - no ill effects. And this was on a van that was truly "severe" in the sense of soccer mom use; frequent starts and stops, short trips and long runs, cold and hot, etc. By the OEM criteria, I should have been doing OFCIs every 3k miles. And yet running 5x that factor (five times!), the UOAs and filters help up perfectly well.
So, you question is valid, but I suspect the Fram Ultra is WAY overcapacitized, even at 20k miles. Syn media with wire backing? What's likely to fail there? I routinely run "normal" cellulose filters to 10k miles. Should an Ultra not outlast them? I would think so. I would think their product is fully capable of even extreme use at 20k miles. It's just that they have an easy out in that most every scenario will limit their FCI risk long before the 20k, likely due to OEM criteria that they adopt into their limits.
