Ford AWD garbage?

[DoubleWasp]

I've been in a lot of bad snow (snow up past bumpers) in my lifetime, and I would think such a poor performance in the snow could hardly be blamed on any type of AWD system. My first car that was AWD for the snow (Audi A8) was the last car I bought for the snow. Drove strictly RWD with powerful engines and zero traction control the rest of the time.

Even given those "awful" circumstances, I never found myself in dire straits with good snow tires. Only trouble I ever got myself in was if I happened to come to a dead stop on solid ice formed from running water (tends to be a lot slicker than ice from standing water). Then, I was going to be doing some goofy stuff to get out, but never had trouble otherwise. I was pretty notorious for ramming my cars through snowbanks to park in the unpaved sections of the street, and then driving straight out without any drama.

Whatever my Audi had going on for AWD, it simply supernatural in the snow. I had figured a heavy car with AWD would be, and it did not disappoint.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I've been in a lot of bad snow (snow up past bumpers) in my lifetime, and I would think such a poor performance in the snow could hardly be blamed on any type of AWD system. My first car that was AWD for the snow (Audi A8) was the last car I bought for the snow. Drove strictly RWD with powerful engines and zero traction control the rest of the time.

Even given those "awful" circumstances, I never found myself in dire straits with good snow tires. Only trouble I ever got myself in was if I happened to come to a dead stop on solid ice formed from running water (tends to be a lot slicker than ice from standing water). Then, I was going to be doing some goofy stuff to get out, but never had trouble otherwise. I was pretty notorious for ramming my cars through snowbanks to park in the unpaved sections of the street, and then driving straight out without any drama.

Whatever my Audi had going on for AWD, it simply supernatural in the snow. I had figured a heavy car with AWD would be, and it did not disappoint.

A. Audi has really, really good AWD (Torsen).
B. Audi has engine moved more forward compared to BMW or MB. Compare to BMW Audi is never that tactile in the curves, BMW being AWD or especially if it is RWD. However, because "hanging" engine over the front axle, it goes thru snow like a tank.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Also, they are first in the ditch, because, you know, AWD, Subaru, I can do anything.

In Tahoe, it's usually Range Rovers, new Tacomas driven by Bay Area types or lifted trucks also driven by Bay Area/Central Valley bros that are in the ditch after a good snowfall.

A Subaru with proper snow tires is invincible in the snow and ice, but FWD with snow tires is pretty [censored] good as well.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Also, they are first in the ditch, because, you know, AWD, Subaru, I can do anything.

In Tahoe, it's usually Range Rovers, new Tacomas driven by Bay Area types or lifted trucks also driven by Bay Area/Central Valley bros that are in the ditch after a good snowfall.

A Subaru with proper snow tires is invincible in the snow and ice, but FWD with snow tires is pretty [censored] good as well.

Well, after Subaru here I would say: JEEP, truck then rest.
As for Subaru. So, so. Good AWD, but at 10,000ft with that 2.5ltr NA engine, it is dead horse.
I actually think that Outback would be serious car if: good tranny or manual with good turbo engine so it behave good in high altitude.
That CVT is

 

[NGRhodes]

For snow covered roads Tyres are by far biggest factor.
I've seen a Peugeot 106 Rally, with open diffs, with winter rally tyres literally run circles round Evos and Subarus on summer tyres. And I was in my 205 GTi with summer tyres with a quaife LSD and he ran circles around me too - this was in Wales where we found a play area, they were able to find traction where the rest of us were just making ruts , 2wd or 4wd.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

As for Subaru. So, so. Good AWD, but at 10,000ft with that 2.5ltr NA engine, it is dead horse.
I actually think that Outback would be serious car if: good tranny or manual with good turbo engine so it behave good in high altitude.
That CVT is

I think in the future, Subaru will push turbos and probably will pull off what Saab did in the 1990s, a low-pressure "eco" version and a high-pressure performance version. The new Ascent is stock with the the FA25DIT.

Although Subaru thought of longevity by using a chain instead of a Bosch link-belt like on Honda and Jatco's CVTs. They have access to Toyota's drivetrain know-how. The 8-speed Lexus tranny would have been a better choice for the WRX(and maybe the STI), FXT and Legacy/Outback 3.6R. However, Subaru's transmission setups are like the longitudinal ZF setups with integrated center diff/coupling and transfer case, while the Lexus AWD setups are like a conventional 4WD setup.

 

[buck91]

Taken the wife's explorer through a number of snow storms in the past two years. Does it act like the 4WD in my F150? Nope. Actually for on-road applications it behaves much better as it doesn't exhibit any low speed front end pushing like a locked in 4x4 does. Even in some mud and slop playing in a melting field it did great. Now, it doesn't feel like a RWD based 4x4 system... because it isn't. And I don't care for the torque steer if you juice the gas. But it does function very well and adapts the torque bias very quickly.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: edyvw

As for Subaru. So, so. Good AWD, but at 10,000ft with that 2.5ltr NA engine, it is dead horse.
I actually think that Outback would be serious car if: good tranny or manual with good turbo engine so it behave good in high altitude.
That CVT is

I think in the future, Subaru will push turbos and probably will pull off what Saab did in the 1990s, a low-pressure "eco" version and a high-pressure performance version. The new Ascent is stock with the the FA25DIT.

Although Subaru thought of longevity by using a chain instead of a Bosch link-belt like on Honda and Jatco's CVTs. They have access to Toyota's drivetrain know-how. The 8-speed Lexus tranny would have been a better choice for the WRX(and maybe the STI), FXT and Legacy/Outback 3.6R. However, Subaru's transmission setups are like the longitudinal ZF setups with integrated center diff/coupling and transfer case, while the Lexus AWD setups are like a conventional 4WD setup.

Subaru has various options to choose from when it comes to transmission. ZF being one of them. However, Subaru is trying to outdo Toyota in a race to the most boring award.
Their commercials moved to hardcore fear mongering (buy Subaru or die), because it has 1000 electronic gimmicks that do things for you while neglecting handling, braking and power.
I recently drove Outback with CVT, and I truly hope I do not have to repeat that experience again.

 

[Black_Thunder]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Everything from Ford is garbage - they only survive because of the F lineup.
One day that lead will go away and they are toast.

Ford really really sucks.. Chrysler is not far behind as well.

They have downright stop competing in the SUV segment, there Explorers are far and few being sold.



tell that to all the 90's fords i have in my possession, and all run and drive just fine.

 

[Black_Thunder]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Everything from Ford is garbage - they only survive because of the F lineup.
One day that lead will go away and they are toast.

Ford really really sucks.. Chrysler is not far behind as well.

They have downright stop competing in the SUV segment, there Explorers are far and few being sold.



tell that to all the 90's fords i have in my possession, and all run and drive just fine.
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Everything from Ford is garbage - they only survive because of the F lineup.
One day that lead will go away and they are toast.

Ford really really sucks.. Chrysler is not far behind as well.

They have downright stop competing in the SUV segment, there Explorers are far and few being sold.


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agreed.

 

[LeakySeals]

My 06 Escalade has AWD. Only need it maybe a month total in NE. During a snowstorm and a day or 2 after. With so many moving parts all the time, there's more maintenance, more costly repairs. Always something to do on the drivetrain. Needs a new front diff this year. New TC chain after that. Costly repairs for such a small return. Having the option of 4wd would be better for the long term, just disconnect it. But its not really disconnected, still spins. I'm hoping that the system in the new 2018 jeep JL gets more widely adopted. It disconnects 4wd at the wheels. No spinning, as if it wasn't there.

No more AWD for me. No matter what make, brand, model. Too costly long term. Unless I change my ways and dump vehicles at 100k. Just gonna stay home on a snowy day.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
My 06 Escalade has AWD. Only need it maybe a month total in NE. During a snowstorm and a day or 2 after. With so many moving parts all the time, there's more maintenance, more costly repairs. Always something to do on the drivetrain. Needs a new front diff this year. New TC chain after that. Costly repairs for such a small return. Having the option of 4wd would be better for the long term, just disconnect it. But its not really disconnected, still spins. I'm hoping that the system in the new 2018 jeep JL gets more widely adopted. It disconnects 4wd at the wheels. No spinning, as if it wasn't there.

No more AWD for me. No matter what make, brand, model. Too costly long term. Unless I change my ways and dump vehicles at 100k. Just gonna stay home on a snowy day.

I think the problem is in Escalade and parts GM is using not AWD idea.