Euro Cars Used to be Very Reliable

[Seventh]

Originally Posted By: B320i
the 90s was the pinnacle of BMW


This. Ever since then they've been parts hungry plastic throw away cars.

I had been a BMW tech for only 4-5 years when the E65 7 series was introduced. Never seen anything like it. Cars down for months on end, brand new units torn apart to steal parts that were not available due to such high demand.

Most had over $100k worth of warranty repairs done by the time the warranty expired. Lots of them had $200k or more.

Still to this day we're submitting warranty claims $10k+ on cars less than 3 years old.

Awesome job security. That's why I still work on them

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
When were European cars known for reliability?

Mercedes, yes. They were tanks that didn't need much attention, however when they did they weren't cheap!

The Scandinavians made some fine automobiles. Still do. Not without their quirks, though.

As far as I can tell, the "old European cars were more reliable" meme comes from a combination of looking towards the past with rose colored glasses and knowing now, 30 years later, how to permanently fix common problems.

When you said European, what did you mean? Because I don't think anything British, French, Italian, or from the CCCP has ever been considered reliable.


I am not one for British anything, but I love those Triumph TR6's. No idea on their reliability.

British racing green is one of my favorite classic car colors too.

 

[dlundblad]

I have found that with some European cars, there's fewer aftermarket options so one has to buy the arguably more pricey OE parts. When this is taken into consideration, OE for say her Volvo vs. OE for my GM truck are quite comparable.

Now her car does have an electronic throttle body and a sophisticated PCV system.. Obviously my truck does not have these, but for whatever reason, the OE water pump for my truck is about 3x the Volvo's (Aisin?) water pump.

It seems to vary from store to store, but Oreilly, AAP etc. typically doesn't stock anything for her car either. When they do stock said parts, they are $$$. Makes sense seeing how it's not quite as popular as an S10. I try to buy online for this reason, but sometimes it's just not possible.

 

[Speak2Mountain]

Evidence: We owned 83 MB 300TD never ever a problem up to 250K
86 MB S class-never a problem up to 280K (until I put too much premium gas and burned a valve)
85 3 series never a problem up 150K
91 Volvo-never a problem up 130K

 

[Speak2Mountain]

Lets see:
2006 3 series
2009 Volvo S80
2010 Volvo XC90

all hot garbage

 

[Speak2Mountain]

Soul=$$$???

New A/C=thousands$

I'll keep my soul in my music, just need to get to work/home w/out breaking into a sweat or having to work a 2nd job at the gas station

 

[Speak2Mountain]

Yep that Volvo 240 was monster from 0-60

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
What happened?
Much rather buy an American, Japanese, or Korean vehicle


I did chuckle when I gave someone a ride once in my Mercedes and he thought they were expensive because they were reliable. They're expensive due to all the options it has, some of the things they do make it less reliable like using liquid filled motor mounts. Seems to make them fail earlier than just regular solid rubber ones.


Part of the reason that modern Mercedes cars can be so scary to own is that they're all toyed up and the toys love to break.
The earlier cars were simple but were designed and built to a very high quality level even where you couldn't see it and would never know it, except for the way in which the car drove and would still drive after a couple of hundred thousand miles.
This era came to an end when Toyota introduced the first Lexus cars, which offered a V-8 and S class size along with a lot of little features that Mercedes cars typically lacked for around the same money as a 300E. That this Toyota product was also very well designed and built didn't help and these cars began to eat into Mercedes US sales.
Mercedes joined the toy race, but the Germans and their suppliers were never as good at making well integrated and durable toys as were the Japanese, hence the current reputation of Mercedes and BMW cars being expensive to own and run.

 

[KrisZ]

European cars are very reliable in Europe, in a lot of cases more so than the Japanese. The key difference is that the American market doesn't see a large portion of the makes/models available in EU and the options we do see are usually optioned up with luxury items and all sorts of gadgets, hence the reliability suffers.

 

[willbur]

Good point. Also the drivers there are typically more knowledgeable about driving and maintenance than the ones here.

 

[jeepman3071]

They are some of the most complex vehicles on the planet. More complexity = more likely to break.

Look at all the Hondas and Toyotas people love, they are extremely simple. 4 cylinder port injected naturally aspirated engines. With the introduction of turbos and direct injection, it will be interesting to see how reliable these brands continue to be. Reliability is also relative. My GF currently owns a 2006 BMW 325xi with 130k miles on it, and it has not been any less reliable than her two previous cars, a 2006 Honda Civic and a 2010 Toyota Prius. Both of which are pretty much "known" for their reliability. The BMW has been owned about the same time as the previous two, maybe a year longer.

2006 Honda Civic - sold with 140k
-engine block cracked (covered under warranty, but car was in the shop for a week with no loaner)
-2 sets of rear struts
-radiator tank cracked
-starter
-a hesitation off idle no shop could pin point, car stalled twice in traffic
-air bag lights
-driver side axle shaft
-belt tensioner

2010 Toyota Prius - sold with 80k
-burned a quart of oil every 1000 miles
-engine knocked when first started
-dangerous ABS brakes that would seemingly engage for no reason. We thought it was tires at first, no dealer believed us.
-about 5 headlight bulbs
-shaking at highway speeds, replacing tires and balancing did not help. Alignment shops said no steering components were worn.
-paint peeling on roof even though it was washed and stored in a garage

2006 BMW 325xi - 130k
-water pump + thermostat
-oil filter housing gasket
-starter
-belt tensioner
-bent wheel

 

[FCD]

New cars suck in general.
Classics or nothing!

 

[CincyDavid]

Lexus killed German brands...the Germans tried to "out electronic" the Asians and failed. There's a reason we have Sony TVs at home, not Grundig.

 

[berniedd]

My brother in law bought a Mercedes Benz a few years ago and experienced nothing but headaches on that car. It was in the dealer's shop more times than he could count. When the warranty ran out, he sold it and got a new Audi. Same story again. He replaced it with a Hyundai Elantra and finally got satisfaction.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: berniedd
My brother in law bought a Mercedes Benz a few years ago and experienced nothing but headaches on that car. It was in the dealer's shop more times than he could count. When the warranty ran out, he sold it and got a new Audi. Same story again. He replaced it with an Hyundai Elantra and finally got satisfaction.


German cars aren't designed to be reliable. They are designed to provide a driving experience, whether sporty or for comfort. Sure the Elantra is more reliable, but it is hardly on the same level driving-wise as the others. I really don't understand people who buy cars knowing nothing about them then complain when they are blind sided by issues. Do research so you are aware of problems before buying something.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
the only reliable European car I can think of is the Volvo 240

After the first year (75) when they swapped the B 20 for the OHC B 21.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Why was the B21 superior to the B20 (aside from being newer)?

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: berniedd
My brother in law bought a Mercedes Benz a few years ago and experienced nothing but headaches on that car. It was in the dealer's shop more times than he could count. When the warranty ran out, he sold it and got a new Audi. Same story again. He replaced it with an Hyundai Elantra and finally got satisfaction.


German cars aren't designed to be reliable. They are designed to provide a driving experience, whether sporty or for comfort. Sure the Elantra is more reliable, but it is hardly on the same level driving-wise as the others. I really don't understand people who buy cars knowing nothing about them then complain when they are blind sided by issues. Do research so you are aware of problems before buying something.


I agree.

The Focus in my sig is terribly reliable and offers a simplistic design I cannot get from any other manufacturer today. That said, it's terribly boring but allows time and funds for more entertaining things in life.

 

[MCompact]

I've dealt with mostly older BMWs, but my wife's 2004 X3 made it to over 180k before we sold it and there was only one expensive repair- but since at that point the truck had been paid off for over 5 years it wasn't a big deal. The 328i hasn't been that expensive to run; ditto for the ti. The 2er had the auxiliary fan replaced under warranty while the i3 has had no warranty claims. As others have noted, I think maintenance plays a large part in a German vehicle's reliability record.
I guess I'll be a BITOG test case on reliability of the newer BMWs; I plan to keep the 2er for another 7-8 years- unless I win an M2 in the BMW CCA raffle...

 

[BrocLuno]

My wife has a Jag XJ6 with 180K on the clock. Some repairs here and there, but comfort is hard to beat

Previous Jag was a nightmare ...

Saab has 140K and runs fine. All systems work

Our Volvo went 283K before it would no longer pass smog w/o a new CAT (worth more than the car).

My Ford trucks have gone 220K (all original), and 443K (with engines). Stock running gear.

VW Sirocco went close to 250K w/o much. Audi Fox went well over 200K before I put a rod out the side of the block ...

528e went over 190K and sold it. Still running around the valley. But the climate system sucked ...

Just sold my 1970 C-20 with 344K (and engines). Stock running gear.

It's all about the same if you do the needed maintenance. Thing about Euro cars is they are made to be kept for a long time and fixed regularly. In a long life you will replace more "consumables" ...

Japanese and USA cars, use and toss ... USA trucks, not so much

 

[Speak2Mountain]

I'm not buying the Euro cars just need more care when electronics fail after 10k miles or major components fail in months. No! Don't put this on the American owner for not keeping up with maintenance. Euro makes do not test their electronics as thoroughly as the Koreans/Japanese/Americans...hence...more problems....less money.

I wish Euro cars were like they were in the 80's but they follow this avant garde themes and they turn into $ pits after the warranty has ended.