driving in snow: tips?

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Anybody offer any winter driving schools in your area? Best thing to learn what happens when traction is lost. It is also a [censored] of a lot of fun. Sliding sideways, oversteer, understeer. Get your confidence up, most peoples first reaction is to let off the gas HIT THE BRAKES with even the slightest amount of sliding, and that is usually the worst thing you can do.
FIFY!

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.


You want toe in for stability.

Yes, why is the car more stable? Because the tires are fighting each other in a straight line, and as you start a corner the outside tire is already "pre-loaded" with some slip angle. Sure, it works very well on pavement where tread block deformation can keep the tread from actually sliding on the road.
On ice though, if your toe angle is too great for your tires to grip enough to deform the tread block, you've got a tire sliding. What happens then? The tire with static grip moves the rear end over until its tracking essentially straight and you've got to let the car make a steering correction, or you'll be turning... What makes it really exciting is often with changing grip levels on each side of the lane, the side sliding will switch on you. My Focus was in spec for rear toe and camber but in the second winter on my snow tires, it just got too sketchy on a partially icy highway bridge as the back end would wiggle so much I wasn't sure I could stay in my lane. I have half decent ice tires too, so its not like I was running studdable hockey pucks...
If you don't believe me, increase the rear toe and camber to the max spec on one of your cars, and see how stable the rear becomes on snow and ice. What works on pavement doesn't always translate to low grip situations...

 

[bullwinkle]

Also, in FWD cars-remember that if the front loses traction, you lose power, braking, AND STEERING! In ice, I actually do better in a FWD manual transmission car, with appropriate snow tires on all 4 corners, than in a 4X4-if things really go south, put it in neutral/push in the clutch-then you still have steering.

 

[nickaluch]

Slow and steady if u need to go out. If possible just use a sick or personal day and stay home. Next day roads should be plowed.

 

[eljefino]

If you're on a road with a crown, it will pull you into the ditch, particularly driving uphill.

If the snow is deeper near the ditch, that can also pull you in.

Snow driving is pretty good for the winter rookie for building experience. Black ice is worse. It's at its worst when you have a substantial rain wash all the salt off the roads, then even a thick frost after a cold night will cause this.

Congrats on the snow tires. They'll help you turn way better than normal all-seasons. Turning is important!

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted By: Iowegian

For driving in snow, turn off traction control!


Do not listen to that advice.

You need to learn how the vehicle behaves in snow and icy conditions. Good snow tires will give you more confidence and will save you.

Learn how to drive in a lower gear when it's really slippery. In my caravan I'll put it into second gear when it's really slippery and upshift once I get going.

I always look out for timid drivers when it snows and try to get head of them or get them away from me they are a danger.

 

[skyactiv]

Keep in mind stabbing the brakes on ice & snow in a vehicle with ABS will make your stopping distance longer, sometimes much longer.

 

[NGRhodes]

Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
Plan very far ahead (nothing wrong with walking your potential route to better judge conditions), look at what other road users are doing to avoid getting stuck because they got stuck. Be smooth, maintain momentum. Minimise wheelspin when stationary to avoid building your own ruts and getting more stuck. Steep inclines, wait at bottom/top one at a time. Help each other.
Carpet or mats, shovel, salt/sand/grit in the boot to help you get unstuck.


What?


Haha, that does read bad, I mean checking out the road surface to gauge how compacted/loose/slushy, not get out and walk the entire route

 

[CT8]

Don't drive is the only advice I can give.

 

[BrocLuno]

Look and see if anyone is offering a tire like the TreadWrights in your size... They have ground glass in the tread rubber. They grip fairly well on snow and ice w/o studs or chains. TreadWright

In heavy snow, take the time to install your X Chains. Drive up to 40 mph w/o hassle

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Slow down.
Practice on an empty parking lot skid manoeuvers, hard braking and counter steering.


This.

Drive according to the conditions, but be familiar with the limitations and personality of your vehicle.

I went from driving a north of 6,000lb SUV (Expedition) with 260HP to a 5,000lb SUV with a MUCH shorter wheelbase and 475HP on tap. That took some familiarization. The Jeep is far more keen to come around than the long wheelbase Expedition was, and since it has significantly more power, it's much more sensitive to throttle input. It has stability control. I can still spin it out in a parking lot with enough of a throttle stab to send the rear sideways, which it simply cannot correct for.

Get comfortable with your vehicle at its limits after finding out what those limits are and it will make you a better driver operating that vehicle within them.

 

[earlyre]

the only winter driving advice I ever got that stuck with me, and that I hand out, is very simple.

"Don't Drive Like an Idiot, and you'll be fine"

really if you think about it, it pretty much encompasses alot of what others have already said here...

 

[Andrew1972]

No sudden moves(acceleration, braking, stopping, turning etc) and if you keep at speed limit or likely less yes you'll do fine.

I was lucky in drivers ed teacher who got excited for winter storms. She used make us get up to speed on unplowed/snow/icy parking lot and jerk wheel making us understand who to regain control gradually.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Make sure you understand if your car has ant-lock brakes. (It would have to be be pretty old not to.) If it has them, test them out on a clear area away from traffic. Get the speed to 30 miles per hour and nail the brakes. You’ll experience how they feel and sound. If it’s working correctly it will help keep you out of a skid. You’ll be able to turn while the brakes are applied.

Avoid using cruise control on hilly highways or on icy roads. The cruise might make the car gear down on a hill and if the roads is slippery the sudden extra tourque might cause you to spin out.

If a road looks icy, it IS icy. Take it easy and slow down.

 

[Gebo]

First thing you need to do is determine whether your drive wheels are in the front or the rear. When you start to lose traction and your rear end starts breaking loose, it can make a difference which way you turn your steering wheel depending on whether you have a front wheel or rear wheel drive car.

 

[eyeofthetiger]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.


You want toe in for stability.

Yes, why is the car more stable? Because the tires are fighting each other in a straight line, and as you start a corner the outside tire is already "pre-loaded" with some slip angle. Sure, it works very well on pavement where tread block deformation can keep the tread from actually sliding on the road.
On ice though, if your toe angle is too great for your tires to grip enough to deform the tread block, you've got a tire sliding. What happens then? The tire with static grip moves the rear end over until its tracking essentially straight and you've got to let the car make a steering correction, or you'll be turning... What makes it really exciting is often with changing grip levels on each side of the lane, the side sliding will switch on you. My Focus was in spec for rear toe and camber but in the second winter on my snow tires, it just got too sketchy on a partially icy highway bridge as the back end would wiggle so much I wasn't sure I could stay in my lane. I have half decent ice tires too, so its not like I was running studdable hockey pucks...
If you don't believe me, increase the rear toe and camber to the max spec on one of your cars, and see how stable the rear becomes on snow and ice. What works on pavement doesn't always translate to low grip situations...


That's not a fair example. Foci are tail-happy, even on pavement. A typical factory alignment on a typical FWD car is much more stable than a Focus.
What you need to do is toss that control blade rear suspension in the dumpster and mount a n 8.8" rear end back there. A 5.0 V8 fits nicely under the hood.

 

[zorobabel]

Driving in snow can be very stressful.
MAKE SURE you have your emotional support animal with you is my advice.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
Plan very far ahead (nothing wrong with walking your potential route to better judge conditions), look at what other road users are doing to avoid getting stuck because they got stuck. Be smooth, maintain momentum. Minimise wheelspin when stationary to avoid building your own ruts and getting more stuck. Steep inclines, wait at bottom/top one at a time. Help each other.
Carpet or mats, shovel, salt/sand/grit in the boot to help you get unstuck.


What?


Haha, that does read bad, I mean checking out the road surface to gauge how compacted/loose/slushy, not get out and walk the entire route

Yeah, that would mean you'd walk the route, then walk back to the car, then drive the route. Would probably take 2.5 times as long as just walking.

 

[fdcg27]

If by winter shoes you mean that you've got dedicated winters on your car, then you really shouldn't have much trouble.
I've had dedicated winter tires in the past and they really are awesome in real winter conditions. The problem is that they're inferior to a cheap set of Chinese all seasons on dry roads or wet above freezing roads, and that's what you'll find for 95% of your winter driving.
OTOH, I've driven through the winter season through all of my driving life, so I'm pretty comfortable with it.
Everyone has hit the important points.
Drive at a speed comfortable for conditions, avoid abrupt steering, braking or throttle inputs and leave plenty of space between you and the car ahead. Test out braking before you really need it.
Momentum matters on upgrades and when trying to get through deep snow, like the pile that the road crew plow might have left at the end of your driveway.
Leaving later is always a good plan, since the fools have already slid into the ditch or utility pole by then and traffic is typically lighter. You can also gain the advantage of daylight so that you can see better.
Take it easy and feel it out as you go and you'll be fine.
Winter driving is a learned skill and experience really is the best teacher, although some seem to forget the lesson with each winter's first real snowfall.
Finally, there is nothing worse than an ice storm. Freezing rain and sleet are really nasty things. If you find your car encased in ice on a winter's morn, just plan on getting to work either later than usual or not at all. There is nothing more treacherous than icy roads and in those conditions, no tire will save you.
The good news is that icing conditions occur only at temperatures near freezing, so salt is very effective and the roads are typically fine after an hour or two.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.


You want toe in for stability.

Yes, why is the car more stable? Because the tires are fighting each other in a straight line, and as you start a corner the outside tire is already "pre-loaded" with some slip angle. Sure, it works very well on pavement where tread block deformation can keep the tread from actually sliding on the road.
On ice though, if your toe angle is too great for your tires to grip enough to deform the tread block, you've got a tire sliding. What happens then? The tire with static grip moves the rear end over until its tracking essentially straight and you've got to let the car make a steering correction, or you'll be turning... What makes it really exciting is often with changing grip levels on each side of the lane, the side sliding will switch on you. My Focus was in spec for rear toe and camber but in the second winter on my snow tires, it just got too sketchy on a partially icy highway bridge as the back end would wiggle so much I wasn't sure I could stay in my lane. I have half decent ice tires too, so its not like I was running studdable hockey pucks...
If you don't believe me, increase the rear toe and camber to the max spec on one of your cars, and see how stable the rear becomes on snow and ice. What works on pavement doesn't always translate to low grip situations...


That's not a fair example. Foci are tail-happy, even on pavement. A typical factory alignment on a typical FWD car is much more stable than a Focus.
What you need to do is toss that control blade rear suspension in the dumpster and mount a n 8.8" rear end back there. A 5.0 V8 fits nicely under the hood.

I know it felt unfair that I was going to get into a car accident going in a straight line over a few patches of ice that should be no issue at all... Fortunately I found a alignment shop that would set the rear toe set near zero, and I have driven happily ever since in any condition.
Most cars don't have this problem, but if you have one that does and the alignment guy says its in spec and there's nothing to do, have him set it at the minimum toe in, and see if it helps.