driving in snow: tips?

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Get your confidence up, most peoples first reaction is to let off the gas with even the slightest amount of sliding, and that is usually the worst thing you can do.


I don't know about that, especially on understeer setup cars, which is the majority on the roads.
The worst thing I see people do is white knuckle the steering wheel and just hold on with zero, or very little input.
When you're in a skid, you have to work that steering wheel hard.


If you don't let off the gas, it is nearly impossible to loose control of a FWD car.

FYI, I teach winter performance driving.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
warm tires have no grip.

Huh?


It's true when you get stuck in snow. Excessive wheel spin will create a very thin water layer under the contact patch and hydroplane. Sort of like ice skates melt a bit of ice and basically hydroplane on a very thin water film.

OK, I understand what he meant now. Thanks.

 

[supton]

I like to minimize my time driving in bad weather, so I drive faster. During a good winter the snowbanks can be used to keep you on the road.

I like to avoid driving in traffic, and will avoid rush hour, especially if it's going to be bad weather. Works well at helping keep distances up. Slowing down usually does quite a bit.

I routinely "test out" the ABS when it snows. Just to keep me aware of what the road really is like, and what it feels like. I also suspect some hooning (in safe areas!) may also help.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
warm tires have no grip.

Huh?

I saw, that. car RPM at 3,500. Girl with a stick-shift...
I was trying in vain to explain, go slow...

One day driving to work icy roads, there was a young man stuck cross-ways in the road ahead blocking traffic in both directions. He spun his wheels like crazy, but the car just sat in the shallow ruts polishing the ice. After watching this for a few minutes, I walked over and asked if he'd like me to drive his car out of that mess. He agreed. Slowly (no drama, no wheel-spin) I backed up a little and went forward a little and just like that his car was back on his side of the road in the preferred direction. It took less that 30 seconds.

Experience trumps enthusiasm on ice.

 

[Leo99]

Some good advice here.

My first choice is to stay home. It's a nightmare out on the roads with people slipping and sliding and crashing.

If you have to drive, practice first. I learned to drive in the snow in a RWD Buick. I can do it but it is stressful. My lower back gets very tense and it's just not good for me to drive in winter conditions for over an hour.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: 2010Civic
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
Plan very far ahead (nothing wrong with walking your potential route to better judge conditions), look at what other road users are doing to avoid getting stuck because they got stuck. Be smooth, maintain momentum. Minimise wheelspin when stationary to avoid building your own ruts and getting more stuck. Steep inclines, wait at bottom/top one at a time. Help each other.
Carpet or mats, shovel, salt/sand/grit in the boot to help you get unstuck.


What?


Yeah, that's the same as staying home and walking and not driving. The whole point of driving is to get there faster than walking.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Don't spin your wheels, especially on ice. You'll just heat up your tires and warm tires have no grip.
...

Hhehehe,
I did that some winters ago. Snow frozen solid around the car. Luckily it was the home parking.
Had to take the bus. Solved 2 days later by a rain (yeah, rain in winter)

I like cold weather just not the ice and snow to deal with for a few months.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Get your confidence up, most peoples first reaction is to let off the gas with even the slightest amount of sliding, and that is usually the worst thing you can do.


I don't know about that, especially on understeer setup cars, which is the majority on the roads.
The worst thing I see people do is white knuckle the steering wheel and just hold on with zero, or very little input.
When you're in a skid, you have to work that steering wheel hard.


If you don't let off the gas, it is nearly impossible to loose control of a FWD car.

FYI, I teach winter performance driving.

Cool! You obviously have more experience in that regard than me, but I believe what you're saying can be classified as an advanced level, bordering on pro. because it goes against the basic instinct of wanting to stop.
I believe proper steering/counter steering techniques are a bare minimum that can be acquired much easier because they don't go against natural reactions.

 

[mattwithcats]

Downshift, and go slow...

If you have a manual, stay out of top gear, and keep the top speed to 40-45...
Light on the brakes, use the gears to slow down.

Automatic
Old school - with D, 1, and 2...
Use 1 to start, shift to 2 once your going.

Newer tranny, manualmatic mode, slip the gearshift to the left. Car will now shift up when you tap the lever forward, and down when pushed backwards. Keep out of top gear, 40-45 max, downshift and light brake when starting to slide.

To get unstuck, have someone push in one direction, and use motor to push in the other, gently.. Rock the car, try not to spin the tires excessively...

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Get your confidence up, most peoples first reaction is to let off the gas with even the slightest amount of sliding, and that is usually the worst thing you can do.


I don't know about that, especially on understeer setup cars, which is the majority on the roads.
The worst thing I see people do is white knuckle the steering wheel and just hold on with zero, or very little input.
When you're in a skid, you have to work that steering wheel hard.


If you don't let off the gas, it is nearly impossible to loose control of a FWD car.

FYI, I teach winter performance driving.

Cool! You obviously have more experience in that regard than me, but I believe what you're saying can be classified as an advanced level, bordering on pro. because it goes against the basic instinct of wanting to stop.
I believe proper steering/counter steering techniques are a bare minimum that can be acquired much easier because they don't go against natural reactions.



Just takes practice to make new automatic reactions. Like when if the back end steps out a bit, just need to correct steering, stay steady on the throttle.

Empty parking lots are good for this. Hold a steady throttle and try and get the car out of control. Is is quite difficult with FWD.

I LOVE driving in slippery snowy conditions. It is very similar balance/feel to driving a car on a racetrack, but at 1/20th the speed. When you are driving a car on track at 10/10ths, it feels very similar, just happens much faster.

 

[cjcride]

Use Snow Tires, Slow Down and if you don't have to drive don't.

 

[IndyIan]

My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.

 

[Kestas]

Before any snowstorm I toss a shovel and a gallon of sand in the trunk. There have been many times I wish I did that when I was younger.

As far as driving techniques, I try to manage the momentum of my car to get through situations.

I too brake hard during the first snows of the season in order to test the conditions and calibrate my driving.

This year I mounted brand new winter tires on my winter car. Wow!... what a difference In holding the road!

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Use at least a six second following distance. Make slow steering inputs. Keep the speed down. Watch for black ice, it's hard to detect and can lead to loss of control. Allow for more travel time. Don't expect anything out of other drivers. Consider everyone else on the road a potential threat. I find using "3" with my five-speed AT gives adequate stopping power without too much braking. Don't venture out when conditions are threatening unless absolutely necessary. STAY HOME.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.



Zero rear toe is a terrible idea. You want toe in for stability.

 

[eyeofthetiger]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.



Zero rear toe is a terrible idea. You want toe in for stability.


I set rear toe to zero or slight toe out on autocross cars. It is scary on the highway.

 

[JTK]

To me, the worst part is drivers in light trucks, SUVs and tractor-trailers riding your arse and then blinding you, or shoving you into the shoulder as they pass. Good wiper blades are important.

Decades ago, AWD wasn't really around and so few people had 4x4, that everyone kind of in the same boat traction wise and traveled at appropriate winter driving speeds.

 

[PSS]

Leave lots of space between you and vehicle in front of you. Normally it should be 4 seconds. Increase it significantly for snow.

Few people leave enough cushion between them and the vehicle in front of them. Then guess what. Accidents happen.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My tip for a car that has a nervous back end in the snow, like it moves a bit in a straight line when running over patchy snow or ice on pavement, is get an alignment to set the rear toe close to zero... Especially if there is lots of rear camber as well. Don't accept that its "within spec" if the car feels bad... I'm actually surprised there isn't a class action lawsuit for this as its easy to demonstrate the difference in stability.
It makes a huge difference on some cars as they can have one back tire sliding on ice when going in a straight line which is making the car unstable before you do any inputs.
Also I like square shoulders on my snow tires, they help the tire work better as the slip angle increases.



Zero rear toe is a terrible idea. You want toe in for stability.


I set rear toe to zero or slight toe out on autocross cars. It is scary on the highway.


Agreed. I run zero rear toe on my FWD racecars but that is because I WANT the back end to come around at anything less than half throttle.

 

[JLTD]

Slow down, and be smooooth.

Imagine an egg between your foot and the pedals. Don't break the egg.