Driver crashes after passing out with n95 mask

[AZjeff]

This morning during our every other week food shopping excursion I noticed that probably 90% of shoppers and workers are wearing some sort of mask. Unfortunately a fair number of them are obviously being worn improperly including below the nose. And then there are the N95 masks like we use at work for dust that have the exhale port.

ABN_CBT_ENGR no doubt what you say is true, but if there's any chance a mask might catch any little nasty bit I'll take it.

As for passing out wearing a mask, at some point personal awareness has to kick in unless a person goes from OK to unconscious in seconds.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
This morning during our every other week food shopping excursion I noticed that probably 90% of shoppers and workers are wearing some sort of mask. Unfortunately a fair number of them are obviously being worn improperly including below the nose. And then there are the N95 masks like we use at work for dust that have the exhale port.

ABN_CBT_ENGR no doubt what you say is true, but if there's any chance a mask might catch any little nasty bit I'll take it.

As for passing out wearing a mask, at some point personal awareness has to kick in unless a person goes from OK to unconscious in seconds.


In all seriousness this is physics and basic filtering engineering and really applicable to the expertise on this site too.

The effectiveness of even the best of these "masks' worn properly and perfectly will give you the same degree of protection from biological entities as a fish net crammed into a mason jar will filter the oil in your engine effectively.

Co2 loading "sneaks" up on you and you gradually can get loopy and lose judgment before it can make you drowsy or just go out like a light. It doesn't give much warning and most of the time its subtle and not recognized.

 

[PandaBear]

N95 is serious stuff. I wear it when going to stores and it feels like I am hiking at 12000 feet altitude with a heavy backpack on. This is needed when you are dealing with known patient infected with COVID-19, you would rather not take that chance. You need to deep breath and you need to stay calm to avoid using too much oxygen to compensate for the restriction.

This doesn't mean it is bad, it is another tool if you can even get one these days. Most fabric or non N95 mask is a lot more breathable, and a good alternative if you can't breath through N95.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


As for not 100%, even if it's only 40-90%, it's still better than nothing. Got to get away from this all or nothing mentality. Seatbelt/Airbag won't save your life 100% of the time either. In fact if you have a bad airbag, it may kill you.


Respectfully in this case

That's a non sequitur comparison in relation to necessary protection from a bio ( or chem) agent ( or body armor for that matter)

Try scuba diving with just a 1/4" hole in the air hose and report back on that 90% air you are still getting.

Theres no real second place winner in a gunfight


Respectfully, it's the same thing. They talk about viral load. Even if it's not 100%, it might reduce the viral load that you receive so even though the effectiveness of it may be low, it's still better than nothing. If used properly. Not going to help and might make it worse if people keep touching it. Would you rather get some air in a hose that's leaking or none at all? Either way, you might be dead both ways, but at least one is better than nothing. I think you are confusing the concentration of the bio/chem agent. If you're a few feet away, the concentration might not be that high. If you're intubating a patient, they call that being near the volcano.

 

[tcp71]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hy-people-catching-coronavirus-says.html

 

[ZeeOSix]

If PPE didn't work to some beneficial degree, then nobody in the hospitals dealing with CV-19 would be wearing it.

 

[Ws6]

N95s are fine. Unless you're extremely physically compromised, any issues encountered will be psychological in nature.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
If PPE didn't work to some beneficial degree, then nobody in the hospitals dealing with CV-19 would be wearing it.

PPE itself works, it's the organic component and reality of logistics that reduces its efficiency by a massive margin.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
If PPE didn't work to some beneficial degree, then nobody in the hospitals dealing with CV-19 would be wearing it.

PPE itself works, it's the organic component and reality of logistics that reduces its efficiency by a massive margin.


Of course if it's used correctly (that was an unspoken given). Any tool meant for a specific job that isn't used correctly can cause compromises.

 

[CT8]

Darwin at it again. :Last fall I wore a N95 mask when i unloaded 300 90 lb bales of hay. I didn't pass out but I thought the big one was coming.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Excellent point Subie (ashamed I overlooked it after all those don and doff drills)

If it doesn't seal 100% of the time with all facial activities then its worthless from jump street.

Actually, OSHA is fine with it failing 1 of the 3 tests during fitment.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
If PPE didn't work to some beneficial degree, then nobody in the hospitals dealing with CV-19 would be wearing it.

PPE itself works, it's the organic component and reality of logistics that reduces its efficiency by a massive margin.


Of course if it's used correctly (that was an unspoken given). Any tool meant for a specific job that isn't used correctly can cause compromises.

Most isolation policies are rather "meh".

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Wolf359


As for not 100%, even if it's only 40-90%, it's still better than nothing. Got to get away from this all or nothing mentality. Seatbelt/Airbag won't save your life 100% of the time either. In fact if you have a bad airbag, it may kill you.


Respectfully in this case

That's a non sequitur comparison in relation to necessary protection from a bio ( or chem) agent ( or body armor for that matter)

Try scuba diving with just a 1/4" hole in the air hose and report back on that 90% air you are still getting.

Theres no real second place winner in a gunfight



Exactly ^^^^^^^


All "feel good" stuff in certain circumstances with mask.

 

[Shannow]

Having written a bunch of protocols over the last months, best thing that you can say about masks is that it stops you touching your nose and mouth...in this instance.

Testing shows it reduces viral load somewhat, but distancing and hand hygeine are the clear winners...surface cleaning a close second, but you can't trust something that you didn't do or see done.

I've got a skull kerchief (biker style) that I might start wearing...and a cthulu mask on the way....

 

[bbhero]

I agree ^^^^^↑↑

Distance + hand hygiene.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Having written a bunch of protocols over the last months, best thing that you can say about masks is that it stops you touching your nose and mouth...in this instance.

Testing shows it reduces viral load somewhat, but distancing and hand hygeine are the clear winners...surface cleaning a close second, but you can't trust something that you didn't do or see done.

I've got a skull kerchief (biker style) that I might start wearing...and a cthulu mask on the way....

Agreed. I like gloves though. Keeps blood and...stuff...off your hands

 

[bachman]

I'll take a guess that some of the motorists driving with the mask on are making a few stops or running errands and just leave it on rather than a repeated on/off.
Fitment adjusting isn't a pain but I'd understand some feeling it's just easier if they are in and out of the car for a few stops and do tear pretty easy; On /Off is how or when that usually happens. I'd expect many have already discovered that and might feel they can conserve use by less stress on them.
I have experienced a number of masks that were fine to wear for the day or an entire work shift EXCEPT of a tear at the puckered sides and that renders them useless anywhere including hospital or health-care environments.

Secondly, I wonder if some driving around are wanting to display the "Look at me I 'm wearing a mask ! " feeling proud of setting an example even though in a car, it really isn't a thing.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Ws6

Actually, OSHA is fine with it failing 1 of the 3 tests during fitment.


Wow, that totally contradicts all the OSHA guidance I have been given to operate under and no plant I have been to allows for that.

Its not in CFR 1910.134 nor APP A or B nor is it referenced in the official memo from 14 March,2020 regarding temporary enforcement guidance for fit testing of N-95 series particulate masks for the duration of this "event" that I can find in my packet.

My packet even reinforces the need for removal of make-up, facial hair and facial movement tests necessary to ensure proper sealing.( that's another issue but since in reality the entire N-95 particulate mask is NOT "fit for purpose" for this particular application, proper fitting makes very little difference)

Could you please direct me to this documented exclusion so I can incorporate it?

Thanks

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by Wolf359


Respectfully, it's the same thing. They talk about viral load. Even if it's not 100%, it might reduce the viral load that you receive so even though the effectiveness of it may be low, it's still better than nothing. If used properly. Not going to help and might make it worse if people keep touching it. Would you rather get some air in a hose that's leaking or none at all? Either way, you might be dead both ways, but at least one is better than nothing. I think you are confusing the concentration of the bio/chem agent. If you're a few feet away, the concentration might not be that high. If you're intubating a patient, they call that being near the volcano.


First, this isn't directed to you or anyone here and I'm responding basically "out there to the masses" so please don't think that. This is like watching 1984 again with the "Ministry of Truth" and me being Winston.

If this is a true bio agent ( which it is- it is a real disease) then it can pass in all ways any other viral agent can.That also means its alive and reproduces in volume as well.

Viral loading is nothing but a concentration/quantity of virus in a given media. ( body fluid, skin etc.) That's primarily a direct contact hazard not significantly different than industry BBP training and stuff and in those cases impermeable membrane PPE and a face shield is most effective.

A "particulate filter" has but one purpose- to filter particulates which are AIRBORNE. ( for example if you got a drop of "virally loaded blood" on it- it would seep through and expose you) ( the little oogies don't jump up from the fluid and get on you) There must be a lot of "truth ministers" out there hoping people don't connect the dots on that issue because they talk about "touching your face" but IF it got on your "shirt" or in your hair and you took it off- guess what, you just touched your face. ( and everywhere else and those contacts tend to migrate)

So if the "line" is that a N-95 mask is some form of "protection"( in terms of an airborne agent) then any "compromised seal" is no seal- regardless of any attempts to minimalize it. Also since its a "particulate filter" then the filter media has to be capable of filtering the beta down to that size ( a concept that shouldn't even need to be brought up on this board specifically with all the expertise here and its entire purpose)

As far as contaminated or concentration, that's an impossibility to measure or predict other than if you get exposed to 1 or 1 million oogies- at that point your individual body characteristics and immune response takes over and theres no "number' or "concentration" threshold that will determine if an individual "gets it" whether their own body will defeat it or require additional treatment.

Along the same lines- if these "measures' are really effective against this "thing" in reducing exposures and all that then "logically' we can expect EVERY disease that spreads the same way to have a reduction because if these measures are effective against one then they have to work for all. (I notice the times I have asked that of some medical professionals they start not wanting to address that)

 

[dlundblad]

The wife and I were working in the yard yesterday when the mail lady came by. We received 3 packages that wouldnt fit in the mailbox so I went down to get them.. She had a mask around her neck/ chin. I approached her slowly thinking she'd want to mask up before I got to her. Nope.

I see people driving with gloves and masks all the time. It's strange. Gloves IMO are especially bad because you literally touched everything then you go to touch your car door, steering wheel, keys etc. If you're wearing gloves, at least take them off and pitch them before getting in your car. I feel they give a false sense of security and/ or make people oblivious to actual dangers.