Does Amsoil make a product like Delvac?
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Amsoil does have a diesel oil like Delvac 1. It is S3000. It is probably one of their best products but sometime seems to be ignored for some reason.
Actually, they have two. The S3000 is a 5w-30 Heavy Duty Diesel oil meeting the following specs:
DIESEL SPECIFICATIONS
API CI-4+, CH-4, CF, CF-2
ACEA B3, B4, E2, E3, E5
Global DHD-1
Mack EO-M+, EO-N Premium Plus 03
DDC Power Guard 93K214
Caterpillar ECF-1
Cummins CES 20071, 20072, 20076, 20077, 20078
Volvo VDS2, VDS3
MB 228.1, 228.3
GASOLINE SPECIFICATIONS
API SL, SJ
ACEA A3
MB229.5, 229.3, 229.1
BMW LL-01/98
VW 501.01, 502.00, 503.00, 505.00, 506.00
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Porsche
Saab
And then there is a European Formula 5w-40 . This is probably the oil you are looking for. It meets these specs:
API SL, CI-4, CF
ACEA A3, B3, B4
BMW LL-01/98
Daimler Chrysler 229.3, 229.4, 229.5
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Opel Diesel Service ill GM-LL-B-025
Porsche
Volvo
Saab
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 503.01
Both of these oils seem pretty impressive, but I don't think we have seen much of the Amsoil 5w-40 in use yet. Give it time - it's cheaper than the S3000 by a bit more than $2 per quart.
DIESEL SPECIFICATIONS
API CI-4+, CH-4, CF, CF-2
ACEA B3, B4, E2, E3, E5
Global DHD-1
Mack EO-M+, EO-N Premium Plus 03
DDC Power Guard 93K214
Caterpillar ECF-1
Cummins CES 20071, 20072, 20076, 20077, 20078
Volvo VDS2, VDS3
MB 228.1, 228.3
GASOLINE SPECIFICATIONS
API SL, SJ
ACEA A3
MB229.5, 229.3, 229.1
BMW LL-01/98
VW 501.01, 502.00, 503.00, 505.00, 506.00
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Porsche
Saab
And then there is a European Formula 5w-40 . This is probably the oil you are looking for. It meets these specs:
API SL, CI-4, CF
ACEA A3, B3, B4
BMW LL-01/98
Daimler Chrysler 229.3, 229.4, 229.5
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Opel Diesel Service ill GM-LL-B-025
Porsche
Volvo
Saab
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 503.01
Both of these oils seem pretty impressive, but I don't think we have seen much of the Amsoil 5w-40 in use yet. Give it time - it's cheaper than the S3000 by a bit more than $2 per quart.
Hi,
Medic - for the benefits of all readers here do the Amsoil products you mention have:
a)official Approval for all those Maunfacturer's you list?
b)they been formally tested/approved(as needed) to API and ACEA standards by those bodies?
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Medic - for the benefits of all readers here do the Amsoil products you mention have:
a)official Approval for all those Maunfacturer's you list?
b)they been formally tested/approved(as needed) to API and ACEA standards by those bodies?
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
I doubt they are API licensed oils. We all know Amsoil's stand on this subject. I have to agree that an API licensing means nothign to me. ILSAC has more meaning in my book with the exception of it requiring an API rating.
What are the API standards for a HDEO?
Another interesting quote from the European Formula page:
What are the API standards for a HDEO?
Another interesting quote from the European Formula page:
No "up to" wording for anybody to attack
Hi,
Medic - in recent times the API's HDEO standards have been formulated by a Committtee from the engine makers - similar to what happens at the ACEA
This was as a result of many US engines failing (from various Manufacturers)due to specific engine design issues (valve train, piston cleanliness, internal deposits and etc) and operation issues (constant maximum torque, low engine speeds @ max speed limits etc) etc. etc.
Some of the ACEA HDEO standards use the same Manufacturer's test protocols as used by API but are more specific to Euro engine designs/application
The main variances in US and Euro diesel design has been how emissions (including soot) are managed. This relates to combustion processes, chamber/piston design, boost pressures, injection processes and etc. And, typically, US diesels have a large sump capacity with Euro engine at about 50% of that. Many Euro engine makers specify synthetic oils (in US that is NOT pushed)and use centrifuge by-pass filtration along with FF filters. Most Euro makers now allow OCI's well in excess of nine times recommended by US makers
Heavy diesel engine suppliers (US engines), and Oil Companies here are quite paranoid about using the Approved oils and only in the allowed viscosity! In OZ this is either a 15w-40 mineral or a 5w-40 synthetic
They have ample "history" that this should be the case
I have found UOAs a requirement in determining OCIs in both cases
Many car engine makers (Subaru etc)of course recommend the same OCI regardless of whether it is a mineral or a synthetic in the sump
Perhaps Amsoil does "meet" all the requirements but even in this case Delvac 1 is not made as a 5w-30 anywhere to my knowledge
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Medic - in recent times the API's HDEO standards have been formulated by a Committtee from the engine makers - similar to what happens at the ACEA
This was as a result of many US engines failing (from various Manufacturers)due to specific engine design issues (valve train, piston cleanliness, internal deposits and etc) and operation issues (constant maximum torque, low engine speeds @ max speed limits etc) etc. etc.
Some of the ACEA HDEO standards use the same Manufacturer's test protocols as used by API but are more specific to Euro engine designs/application
The main variances in US and Euro diesel design has been how emissions (including soot) are managed. This relates to combustion processes, chamber/piston design, boost pressures, injection processes and etc. And, typically, US diesels have a large sump capacity with Euro engine at about 50% of that. Many Euro engine makers specify synthetic oils (in US that is NOT pushed)and use centrifuge by-pass filtration along with FF filters. Most Euro makers now allow OCI's well in excess of nine times recommended by US makers
Heavy diesel engine suppliers (US engines), and Oil Companies here are quite paranoid about using the Approved oils and only in the allowed viscosity! In OZ this is either a 15w-40 mineral or a 5w-40 synthetic
They have ample "history" that this should be the case
I have found UOAs a requirement in determining OCIs in both cases
Many car engine makers (Subaru etc)of course recommend the same OCI regardless of whether it is a mineral or a synthetic in the sump
Perhaps Amsoil does "meet" all the requirements but even in this case Delvac 1 is not made as a 5w-30 anywhere to my knowledge
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Doug likes to jump in with his .02$US
I kinda like him to show me that these oils don't meet those standards. What portion of ANY the testing do the oils fail?
I kinda like him to show me that these oils don't meet those standards. What portion of ANY the testing do the oils fail?
FWIW, I wasn't the person who brought S3k 5w-30 into the discussion. I also added that the oil in question was probably the european formula, 5w-40, and not the S3k 5w-30.
If I had a VW TDI, I would have no problem running Amsoil 5w-40 in it for the recommended period of time. I may also add Schaeffer's new S9k 5w-40 in the future, based on their past performance in diesel engines.
I will also stand by my feelings on API licensing. It's one thing to meet their specs, but another to be required to pay them $$$ (up front cost & commission instead of a one time fee) to get an oil licensed. This is a cost passed on to the consumer. What does the consumer get for this money, a cool looking star burst on the front of a bottle that he will throw out.
IMHO, the API is a monopoly. There are other, much better systems available.
If I had a VW TDI, I would have no problem running Amsoil 5w-40 in it for the recommended period of time. I may also add Schaeffer's new S9k 5w-40 in the future, based on their past performance in diesel engines.
I will also stand by my feelings on API licensing. It's one thing to meet their specs, but another to be required to pay them $$$ (up front cost & commission instead of a one time fee) to get an oil licensed. This is a cost passed on to the consumer. What does the consumer get for this money, a cool looking star burst on the front of a bottle that he will throw out.
IMHO, the API is a monopoly. There are other, much better systems available.
You might want to check the standards for the new
5/40 Schaeffer's is selling. I believe their stance is any diesel before 1994 is ok. And please correct if I am incorrect on the info.
5/40 Schaeffer's is selling. I believe their stance is any diesel before 1994 is ok. And please correct if I am incorrect on the info.
Hi,
Pablo - I chose not to add my $0.2 for a while due to certain "over merchanising" that became tiresome
Don't you like me to jump in"?
Are you inferring that I should not contribute any more?? I'll gladly leave the Board again if you wish as I have nothing to sell and only knowledge to gain! I can access that without posting!!!
Dispute my posts if you wish we may all be winners!!!!
Pablo - read my posts in here again - they do not infer that Amsoil fails any tests at all. Perhaps you could politely respond to my post to Medic which had some questions.......
And by the way I have some respect for Amsoil's products but the tendency to oversell does become a bore
And, I am not connected to ANY Oil Company except as a Commercial user. I hold Commercial Accounts with ExxonMobil, Castrol and Shell and selectively use products from each!
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Pablo - I chose not to add my $0.2 for a while due to certain "over merchanising" that became tiresome
Don't you like me to jump in"?
Are you inferring that I should not contribute any more?? I'll gladly leave the Board again if you wish as I have nothing to sell and only knowledge to gain! I can access that without posting!!!
Dispute my posts if you wish we may all be winners!!!!
Pablo - read my posts in here again - they do not infer that Amsoil fails any tests at all. Perhaps you could politely respond to my post to Medic which had some questions.......
And by the way I have some respect for Amsoil's products but the tendency to oversell does become a bore
And, I am not connected to ANY Oil Company except as a Commercial user. I hold Commercial Accounts with ExxonMobil, Castrol and Shell and selectively use products from each!
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Doug - Of course you are allowed to participate and I/we highly value your opinion. I think your technical real world experience makes you one of the best posters here. But, your "statement" has the usual tired connotation and has nothing to do with the original question, so I just wasn't going to let it slide by.
BTW - I tend to include the Amsoil 15W-40 in this mix, not because it's a 5W-40, but really the cold temp properties are better than many 10W-X's. And the 15W-40 is FULL API licensed, but I'm not impressed....because we know the tough tests are for the XW-30's
BTW - I tend to include the Amsoil 15W-40 in this mix, not because it's a 5W-40, but really the cold temp properties are better than many 10W-X's. And the 15W-40 is FULL API licensed, but I'm not impressed....because we know the tough tests are for the XW-30's
Hi,
Pablo -
My answer to the posters question was valid.
Your comment "But, your "statement" has the usual tired connotation and has nothing to do with the original question, so I just wasn't going to let it slide by." certainly did not answer the questions.
So, the real answer to the poster's question: "Does Amsoil make a product like Delvac" is no. But Amsoil does sell a synthetic 5w-30 HDEO which may be similar! Correct?
If the question had concerned Shell's Rotella T 5w-40 the answer would have been yes!
Of course the intended application should cause the answer too
2003TRD - another part of the answer too is that Delvac 1 5w-40 is a synthetic "mixed fleet" HDEO with appropriate dual API quality ratings of (at least) CI-4/SL. Yes, it primarily is a serious Commercial diesel oil and due to ExxonMobil's strange marketing behaviour - rather hard to get almost anywhere in the world except via Commercial sources. They are so frustrating!
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Pablo -
My answer to the posters question was valid.
Your comment "But, your "statement" has the usual tired connotation and has nothing to do with the original question, so I just wasn't going to let it slide by." certainly did not answer the questions.
So, the real answer to the poster's question: "Does Amsoil make a product like Delvac" is no. But Amsoil does sell a synthetic 5w-30 HDEO which may be similar! Correct?
If the question had concerned Shell's Rotella T 5w-40 the answer would have been yes!
Of course the intended application should cause the answer too
2003TRD - another part of the answer too is that Delvac 1 5w-40 is a synthetic "mixed fleet" HDEO with appropriate dual API quality ratings of (at least) CI-4/SL. Yes, it primarily is a serious Commercial diesel oil and due to ExxonMobil's strange marketing behaviour - rather hard to get almost anywhere in the world except via Commercial sources. They are so frustrating!
Regards
Doug
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Delvac 1)
MY89 Porsche 928 S4 Auto (Delvac 1)
Yes they make several oils that are like Delvac.
The one I prefer, is the 10w40 AMO. Specs are pretty close. Though the 15w40 is the best price to performance there is.
The 5w40 is API SL and CI-4. So it does meet the current US specs for a HDEO. Though price wise,
15w40 is first
10w40 is second
5w40 is third being most expensive of non-Series 3000 oils.
The Series 3000 5w30 HDD, can be used in place of all of the above oils.
Doug has the real life experience with expensive equipment like warranty, operating expenses,what works and what doesn't.etc. I would say his .02$US is more like $100.00 US I have spent alot of time around trucks and equipment . The info Doug shares with us is right on. I wish I knew a much.
Doug made the allegation. I didn't.
I told him I respect his credentials. They were never in question. I don't quite get your point.
Back to the original question. I think the Amsoil 5W-40 naturally comes closest in viscosity to Delvac and in gas engines exceeds it in wear protection. The Amsoil 10W-40 is not my favorite oil, but the wear rates seem equivalent to or better than Delvac.
In warmer climates the 15W-40 is the best value. The 5W-30 HDD is a great oil but so expensive.
I told him I respect his credentials. They were never in question. I don't quite get your point.
Back to the original question. I think the Amsoil 5W-40 naturally comes closest in viscosity to Delvac and in gas engines exceeds it in wear protection. The Amsoil 10W-40 is not my favorite oil, but the wear rates seem equivalent to or better than Delvac.
In warmer climates the 15W-40 is the best value. The 5W-30 HDD is a great oil but so expensive.
Never tried the Amsoil 5w-40. An interesting synthetic oil.
I would say that the AME 15w40 is clostest to the Delvac 1.
Here is a comparison of what we can find on each website.
AME Delvac 1
visc @ 100C cst 14.3 14.8
visc @ 40 C cst 90.2 102
visc index 164 151
CCS visc 3367@-20C ?????????
pour point -46C -45C
flash point 236C 226C
Noack volatility 6.5% ?????????
HT/HS >4.1 ?????????
TBN >12 12
It looks like the AME 15w40 reads more like a 5w40 than the Delvac 1.
I will jump back in here only to answer the original question.
In a way, yes, Amsoil does make a product like Delvac 1. It is their european formula 5w-40. It is like Delvac 1 on the respect that it is a 5w-40 oil rated to be used in both diesel and gas engines, and obviously designed for european vehicle requiring an ACEA A3 or B3 oil. It will provide lubrication to vital engine parts, just like Delvac 1.
Differences: Manufacturer. Delvac 1 is manufactured by Exxon/Mobil. Amsoil 5w-40 is not. Delvac 1 is API licensed, Amsoil 5w-40 is not, but does meet their required specs. The two oils have different additive packages. Amsoil 5w-40 is slightly more expensive.
In a way, yes, Amsoil does make a product like Delvac 1. It is their european formula 5w-40. It is like Delvac 1 on the respect that it is a 5w-40 oil rated to be used in both diesel and gas engines, and obviously designed for european vehicle requiring an ACEA A3 or B3 oil. It will provide lubrication to vital engine parts, just like Delvac 1.
Differences: Manufacturer. Delvac 1 is manufactured by Exxon/Mobil. Amsoil 5w-40 is not. Delvac 1 is API licensed, Amsoil 5w-40 is not, but does meet their required specs. The two oils have different additive packages. Amsoil 5w-40 is slightly more expensive.
wu-li makes a good point.
I can tell you for the buck and the wear rate the 15W-40 is my fav.
I can tell you for the buck and the wear rate the 15W-40 is my fav.
Pablo,
I don't know what sort of test rig that Amsoil uses to claim that their oils "meet or exceed" specification blah blah.
Maybe you can fill us in on their test lab, which follows all of the API and OEM tests that the API and others use to certify their oils.
Personally, if they followed those tests to the letter in their own lab, and had third parties (like Terry and Molakule) endorsing the tests, I would have no problem at all with their claims.
I've not seen too much listed bar 4 ball wear, but must admit that I haven't searched long and hard to find their lab.
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