Dealer installed swirl marks

[CKN]

Originally Posted by SirTanon
When properly applied and allowed time to cure, most true 'Ceramic' coating are actually quite hard, and can resist quite a bit of punishment. This is not to say that all are, but most are.

CarPro Cquartz, for example, is quite hard and durable when applied correctly and provided sufficient cure time.


None of them are completely scratch-proof though, so I always try to wash mine as I would with any other nice automotive finish.


If I'm spending two grand on a coating-and a car wash "swirls it"-I'd just save my money...............

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by Cardiobuck
This is a place that hosts classes to teach other would be detailers how its done.


As long as you don't live in the same state so he can help keep his competition at bay.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by The Critic
Todd runs a great operation. His background is a lot different than most detailers though - he has a Fortune 500 sales background. He is a marketing genius....


Yes, for a motorcycle company. I won't mention which one.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by parshisa
Yes, i had some detailing background (not on professional level for a living but have done a fair share of cars, including both of mine cars corected and ceramic coated). Most time consuming part of any detail is paint correction. Coating itself costs really nothing and it doesn't take all that much time to install. With that said, no matter how many layers have been installed, once it is compromised (auto carwash) - it needs to be removed (compound/polish) and re-applied. You can leave it as is, and it will still show it's hydrauphobic properties, but it will be swirled. Sorry, but coatings are no magic.

Also, don't be fooled by the amount of fancy cars in the shop. There was thread on Autogeek about the guy who got his cat detailed in one of the shops full of cool expensive cars, but it was a complete junk job, and he came back to the shop 3 times before he finally requested refund. And he did get it because the shop name is was exposed to public knolwdge and trashed on forum. Just post on AG forum and ask for detailers innyour area. There are bunch of good detailera on thw forum that do care about their reputation and do amazing job.cheers

+1. And if you are going to re-do the car, please use something reputable......not Ceramic Pro.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by CKN
If I'm spending two grand on a coating-and a car wash "swirls it"-I'd just save my money...............

You're not. You're paying that for the correction and the coating.

If you can't see the value in it that's fine - why say anything at all?

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by CKN
If I'm spending two grand on a coating-and a car wash "swirls it"-I'd just save my money...............

You're not. You're paying that for the correction and the coating.

If you can't see the value in it that's fine - why say anything at all?



I hear the "block feature" works pretty good if you don't like my posts..........

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by CKN
If I'm spending two grand on a coating-and a car wash "swirls it"-I'd just save my money...............

You're not. You're paying that for the correction and the coating.

If you can't see the value in it that's fine - why say anything at all?

I hear the "block feature" works pretty good if you don't like my posts..........

You got it, bud.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by parshisa
Yes, i had some detailing background (not on professional level for a living but have done a fair share of cars, including both of mine cars corected and ceramic coated). Most time consuming part of any detail is paint correction. Coating itself costs really nothing and it doesn't take all that much time to install. With that said, no matter how many layers have been installed, once it is compromised (auto carwash) - it needs to be removed (compound/polish) and re-applied. You can leave it as is, and it will still show it's hydrauphobic properties, but it will be swirled. Sorry, but coatings are no magic.

Also, don't be fooled by the amount of fancy cars in the shop. There was thread on Autogeek about the guy who got his cat detailed in one of the shops full of cool expensive cars, but it was a complete junk job, and he came back to the shop 3 times before he finally requested refund. And he did get it because the shop name is was exposed to public knolwdge and trashed on forum. Just post on AG forum and ask for detailers innyour area. There are bunch of good detailera on thw forum that do care about their reputation and do amazing job.cheers

+1. And if you are going to re-do the car, please use something reputable......not Ceramic Pro.





I thought Todd used Gyeon and Kamikaze mainly for coatings? Those two brands are the ones he pushes and with good reason. They are top notch.

 

[Vikas]

Do you know what I do? I rarely if ever wash my cars. The only way car paint get swirl marks is by something rubbing it. Even when I wash it, I will just have the car air dry it. My car may be extremely dirty and filthy but it has no swirl marks. The dealer must have laughed when I asked him not to wash my car given how dirty it was when I brought it in but he did honor my request. By the way, I asked him if the carwash was brush-less. If it was, I would have asked him to wash my car.

I would have thought that $2K coating would withstand occasional automatic car wash.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Vikas
I would have thought that $2K coating would withstand occasional automatic car wash.

I'm not sure why people think this and AGAIN, it is not a $2k coating. It is $2k for a full detail including paint correction and coating application. A proper detail including a full paint correction is not cheap.

Coatings:

1. Enhance the gloss
2. Repel water and the grime it carries
3. Make the car easier to wash
4. Protect against etching and water spots

They can protect against minor scratches, but nothing will save you from the brushes of death or improper wash technique. Grinding dirt into the finish is grinding dirt into the finish.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Vikas
I would have thought that $2K coating would withstand occasional automatic car wash.

I'm not sure why people think this and AGAIN, it is not a $2k coating. It is $2k for a full detail including paint correction and coating application. A proper detail including a full paint correction is not cheap.

Coatings:

1. Enhance the gloss
2. Repel water and the grime it carries
3. Make the car easier to wash
4. Protect against etching and water spots

They can protect against minor scratches, but nothing will save you from the brushes of death or improper wash technique. Grinding dirt into the finish is grinding dirt into the finish.




Exactly.

 

[john_pifer]

My sister and brother-in-law bought a new 2014 Nissan Pathfinder, black in color. Beautiful vehicle, except for the nasty swirls left in the paint by whatever 8 buck an hour moron they have washing cars in the back. The swirls were obviously left by a machine buffer of some sort. I didn't even point out the swirls to my sister and BIL because they never noticed (they're not "car people"), and it only would have served to sour their new car purchase that they were excited to show me.

I did call the dealership. I got the email address of the GM and sent him an email, letting him know that whoever he had working in the "detail department" was ruining the finishes on brand-new cars with a buffer that he had no clue how to use properly.

Infuriating.

 

[Cardiobuck]

CKN,
You laughed at the idea there was such a thing as 'dealer installed swirl marks'. I don't mean to be rude of if you have to be educated on the colloquialism....well of course you wouldn't spend that kind of money on this sort of thing. Fair to say it's outside your area of interest. Value is pretty arbitrary. No car you care about should ever be washed by a machine.

I looked back at my old receipt and it was actually $1500, not $2000. It was a good value considering how much time was spent and the result. Much of the great result that was achieved is actually from the paint correction, as rooflessVW has said. Doing the correction properly takes a lot of time (thus $$) and you want someone you trust doing it as there is only so much paint there to work with. In my eyes the ceramic was just a way to help preserve the finish in its paint corrected state. You could probably coat it with many different brands and have a result that looks similar.

SirTanon,
Time....
Time is the most precious thing I have. No matter how much money I make I've not found a way to have, create, buy, or generate more time. I'm not afraid of confrontation I'm afraid of giving the dealer more of the thing I value most. In the end I did end up taking the service managers phone call. It went how I figured it would. He was a pleasant enough guy and since a bit of time had passed so was I. He actually offered to have his guy correct the paint for me. No way in [censored] his guy is touching it. I've never had a dealership do this type of work for me and with good reason. They typically do not employ the best people and I am too picky. It was never about money. It was about right and wrong and the issues I have with people who should have just stayed in bed for the day. The dealer made a mistake and has lost much more than just my business, that is enough.

Critic,
You could have actually been helpful and recommended the ceramic you prefer rather than just putting down CeramicPro. Perhaps you could share what you use and even post a photo or two demonstrating how superior another product is. I am always willing to learn.

The car is currently in the possession of the only guy I trust to make it right.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by Cardiobuck
CKN,
You laughed at the idea there was such a thing as 'dealer installed swirl marks'. I don't mean to be rude of if you have to be educated on the colloquialism....well of course you wouldn't spend that kind of money on this sort of thing. Fair to say it's outside your area of interest. Value is pretty arbitrary. No car you care about should ever be washed by a machine.

I looked back at my old receipt and it was actually $1500, not $2000. It was a good value considering how much time was spent and the result. Much of the great result that was achieved is actually from the paint correction, as rooflessVW has said. Doing the correction properly takes a lot of time (thus $$) and you want someone you trust doing it as there is only so much paint there to work with. In my eyes the ceramic was just a way to help preserve the finish in its paint corrected state. You could probably coat it with many different brands and have a result that looks similar.

SirTanon,
Time....
Time is the most precious thing I have. No matter how much money I make I've not found a way to have, create, buy, or generate more time. I'm not afraid of confrontation I'm afraid of giving the dealer more of the thing I value most. In the end I did end up taking the service managers phone call. It went how I figured it would. He was a pleasant enough guy and since a bit of time had passed so was I. He actually offered to have his guy correct the paint for me. No way in [censored] his guy is touching it. I've never had a dealership do this type of work for me and with good reason. They typically do not employ the best people and I am too picky. It was never about money. It was about right and wrong and the issues I have with people who should have just stayed in bed for the day. The dealer made a mistake and has lost much more than just my business, that is enough.

Critic,
You could have actually been helpful and recommended the ceramic you prefer rather than just putting down CeramicPro. Perhaps you could share what you use and even post a photo or two demonstrating how superior another product is. I am always willing to learn.

The car is currently in the possession of the only guy I trust to make it right.


I have no interest on spending $1,500 on a glamorized detail job. And if you follow my posts at all-you know I can well afford it. Here is the last truck just before I traded it in-at top dollar I may add. It's a combo of NuFinish and Meguiars Cleaner Wax-and yes I use the car wash in the winter time-

 

[HYUNDAIFAN0001]

Originally Posted by CKN
I have no interest on spending $1,500 on a glamorized detail job. And if you follow my posts at all-you know I can well afford it. Here is the last truck just before I traded it in-at top dollar I may add. It's a combo of NuFinish and Meguiars Cleaner Wax-and yes I use the car wash in the winter time-

WOW...talk about a band-aid fix.

As long as you're happy...that's all that counts...but NuFinish?...wonder what's left of your actual Clear Coat protective layer.

 

[Cardiobuck]

Originally Posted by parshisa
Also, don't be fooled by the amount of fancy cars in the shop. There was thread on Autogeek about the guy who got his cat detailed in one of the shops full of cool expensive cars, but it was a complete junk job, and he came back to the shop 3 times before he finally requested refund. And he did get it because the shop name is was exposed to public knolwdge and trashed on forum. Just post on AG forum and ask for detailers innyour area. There are bunch of good detailera on thw forum that do care about their reputation and do amazing job.cheers

I was using Todd at Esoteric detail as a point of reference for what I could have spent. I did not actually go with him. I'm not sure I was "fooled" by the brand of car he was working on. I was impressed as I stood there by how they looked. I was impressed at the effort to disassemble components. I appreciated the laser focus of the middle aged guys working there who only paused their work long enough to say high to me. This is not a run of the mill place. But again I did not go with them.

I went with a guy that for ceramic only uses Ceramic Pro. I'm sure people will criticize that and say he should offer a choice to go with other brands. He does plenty of non ceramic detail work where he will use products from other companies. I like him because it is just him and one partner who do the work. I don't want a place that has a bunch of teenagers running around. I also don't want a place that is so large one guy gives the quote and someone else does the work. I also like him because he and his partner are currently giving me their weekend. I need the car back by Sunday night and he just updated that he should finish it today and plan to arrange for pickup Sunday afternoon/evening so I can have it for the work week. They aren't even open on Sundays, he has to come back to the shop for this to happen. There is talking about service and then there is giving up your precious time on a day off to make something right for a valued customer.

As for the choice of CeramicPro and asking the Audi forums for advice. User snagitseven, a major AudiWorld contributor and site moderator, gives high praise to Ceramic Pro because it is what he has on his 2013 A6 and after 6 yrs he is still happy with the results. He has posted impressive pictures to back up the endorsement.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by HYUNDAIFAN0001
Originally Posted by CKN
I have no interest on spending $1,500 on a glamorized detail job. And if you follow my posts at all-you know I can well afford it. Here is the last truck just before I traded it in-at top dollar I may add. It's a combo of NuFinish and Meguiars Cleaner Wax-and yes I use the car wash in the winter time-

WOW...talk about a band-aid fix.

As long as you're happy...that's all that counts...but NuFinish?...wonder what's left of your actual Clear Coat protective layer.

What about that is a band-aid?

NuFinish is non-abrasive. Meguiar's Cleaner Wax is safe for continued use on clear coat finishes.

I don't care for NuFinish, but I've at least seen the light that it isn't harmful, works for thousands of people, and is better than nothing.

Meguiar's Cleaner Wax is a quality product that continues to stand the test of time nearly unchanged.

 

[slo town]

OP:

As I said very early in your thread, I feel your pain. It would anger me too.

It"s amusing to read some of these posts. Some of them even said brush type car washes are safe to use because muddy vehicles are not allowed to use them. Who would have thought Utah had car wash police there to prevent that. Car wash police. Really? Sounds like the "guaranteed job for everyone" type of thing. That sounds like something my commie state of Cali would do.

Anyway, bummer, OP.

Scott

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
OP:

As I said very early in your thread, I feel your pain. It would anger me too.

It"s amusing to read some of these posts. Some of them even said brush type car washes are safe to use because muddy vehicles are not allowed to use them. Who would have thought Utah had car wash police there to prevent that. Car wash police. Really? Sounds like the "guaranteed job for everyone" type of thing. That sounds like something my commie state of Cali would do.

Anyway, bummer, OP.

Scott


The car wash attendants are very good about not allowing muddy trucks through the wash. And BTW- US News and World report ranked Utah #3 for our economy. The minimum wage is $7.50. Fast food is paying between $10.00 and $13.00 an hour. You would be hard pressed to find a $7.50 an hour job. You would be surprised how many ex-Californians that I have met here in Utah that have fled California and never looked back.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by HYUNDAIFAN0001
Originally Posted by CKN
I have no interest on spending $1,500 on a glamorized detail job. And if you follow my posts at all-you know I can well afford it. Here is the last truck just before I traded it in-at top dollar I may add. It's a combo of NuFinish and Meguiars Cleaner Wax-and yes I use the car wash in the winter time-

WOW...talk about a band-aid fix.

As long as you're happy...that's all that counts...but NuFinish?...wonder what's left of your actual Clear Coat protective layer.

What about that is a band-aid?

NuFinish is non-abrasive. Meguiar's Cleaner Wax is safe for continued use on clear coat finishes.

I don't care for NuFinish, but I've at least seen the light that it isn't harmful, works for thousands of people, and is better than nothing.

Meguiar's Cleaner Wax is a quality product that continues to stand the test of time nearly unchanged.

\

Yeah-the NuFinish hate on this board is really remarkable. On my vehicles-I use cleaner wax for the first coat-then NuFinish over the top of that. As you can see from my previous picture-it makes a real nice shine.