Current Civic's reliability?

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
The "new" Civic is a fantastic car to drive for the money. I've spent some time behind the wheel of my dad's and it's impressive, particularly chassis/suspension/steering feel. The 2.0 is probably as bulletproof as you can get in terms of engines and I'd totally trust Honda's CVT at this point. I found the CVT completely inoffensive and will go so far as saying it functioned very well when driving my dad's.

As for the 1.5T, fuel dilution is a known attribute of these engines. Unless you're in a particularly cold climate I probably wouldn't worry as, other than noting the behavior, there is zero indication of ill-effects due to it. Honda has designed all of its modern turbo engines with the exact same reliability targets as its naturally aspirated engines.





Nope! The shade-tree mechanics/engineers here on BITOG say other wise. Who would you believe?

 

[Subdued]

Originally Posted By: flinter
What the heck is a "catch can"???
it's something apologists add to their otherwise completely stock engines to make up for poor PCV design

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: Subdued
Originally Posted By: flinter
What the heck is a "catch can"???
it's something apologists add to their otherwise completely stock engines to make up for poor PCV design



It's something that the engineers when they designed the motor felt was not needed......and if added is another maintenance item "Mr. Average Joe Owner" will neglect.

 

[parshisa]

My god, so much hate for the car. unreal

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
My god, so much hate for the car. unreal


Don't take it personally, it's just a car.

And for the record, from what I read, because I haven't driven the new Civic yet, it is a very good car. In fact some postulate that it's too good and it steals sales from the new Accord, because the Accord is priced so much higher.
I never said, nor implied that the car itself is bad. But the 1.5 turbo engine does appear to have been rushed to production without properly addressing the fuel dilution problem. Other automakers don't have this problem to the same extent this engine has.

You don't need to be an engineer, just use some common sense, that if you have the oil level rise half an inch in the span of few thousand miles, it cannot be good in the long term for regular people that never even bother to check the oil level. Would anybody here, be it an engineer, carpenter, accountant, doctor etc. add half a quart of gas to their oil every OCI? I'm pretty sure the answer would be a resounding NO. If you have a little bit of car knowledge, you know it is not good to add gas, or any other solvent to engine oil.

For those that are aware of the problem, even though they try to pretend there is none, and they take preventive countermeasures, like siphoning out the old oil out and adding new, doing UOAs and shorter OCIs, bumping oil grade etc. yeah, there will probably be no negative effects, but after so much hassle.

 

[parshisa]

I think the whole fuel dilution thing is just overhyped. Yes, the problem exists and yes, in some cases the problem is major. Does it need to be solved by Honda? absolutely. Is there anything car owner can do about it in order to reduce the severity of it? For sure! Is this problem common for Honda engines only? [censored] no.

Technology comes at a cost. People like the benefits of the new technologies but it sometimes comes at a cost. Averge Joe is too [censored] lazy and/or careless to care about something like oil in the engine. Too many variables here and it would be unfair to blame the manufacturer only.

 

[Mr Nice]

Just change the oil every 5K on those turbo Honda engines.

 

[JTK]

I've searched and asked this in other threads on the Honda / fuel dilution discussions to no avail. Have there been engine failures, with the suspected cause being fuel dilution on the new 1.5T Honda engine? I'm not trying to defend or trash Honda, just curious because I haven't seen any failure reports.

 

[KrisZ]

This is fuel dilution, meaning the engine will operate more in the boundary and mixed modes instead of full hydrodynamic mode. This means there will most likely never be a catastrophic failure.

Read up on VW PD diesel cam lobe wear problem. In most cases the engines were running fine even with severely worn out cam lobes.

Engine are very durable and design defects like this don't manifest themselves right away and in a catastrophic manner. It's a gradual process that may last past 100k miles. At that point many people will probably see any performance loss as normal, worn out engine.

 

[JTK]

^ KrisZ, I hear you and thanks.

I am aware of what fuel dilution is and what it can do. I'm just curious to know if there have been actual Honda failures due to it.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: JTK
^ KrisZ, I hear you and thanks.

I am aware of what fuel dilution is and what it can do. I'm just curious to know if there have been actual Honda failures due to it.


You would have to define failure. Wiped out bearings? Seized engines? A hole in the block?

 

[JTK]

Has there been any of those on a newer Honda 1.5T?

 

[KrisZ]

Then going back to my earlier point, fuel dilution has a low probability to manifest itself in that type of failure. I would expect in most cases a gradual degradation of compression and oil pressure that would become noticeable past warranty period.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Then going back to my earlier point, fuel dilution has a low probability to manifest itself in that type of failure. I would expect in most cases a gradual degradation of compression and oil pressure that would become noticeable past warranty period.

It's not going to help Honda's rep on having most engines get to 200k and still running like new anyways... Atleast with oil burning, the low/no maintenance crowd has to add oil to ward off engine destruction. With fuel dilution some of these cars will be run with alot of gas in the pan and not much oil.
I'm curious how much dilution is actually possible with gas evaporating much easier than oil? You would think you could evaporate alot of gas from 80C oil splashing around at even 1600rpm. But I guess the PCV system restricts a lot of vapor flow from the engine into the intake and its clearly not taking away all the gas vapor that would be produced if the engine was vented to the atmosphere.

 

[CincyDavid]

I would almost prefer fuel dilution to the oil consumption we've had with the '14 Accord 2.4l engine...one of the kids drives it, and it seems like every time I check the oil it's down a quart. She says "it says I have 15% oil left so I thought it was OK"...I have told her over and over that's an oil life monitor, NOT an oil level monitor. At least she'd never run it dry with fuel dilution issues.

 

[gofast182]

This is from the owner of Temple of VTEC who has direct access to Honda engineers during product releases. Some is anecdotal, some is solid. The comment below is in the context of turbos no longer being ultra-expensive to replace.

Quote:
As for the turbocharger cost, I heard that the part on the CR-V is under $1000. Not sure about the labor cost. After speaking to the powertrain guys about these new turbo engines, they swear up and down that they're designed with exactly the same durability and maintenance targets as their previous N/A engines. I guess we'll find out. But I was talking with the service manager at one of the local dealers which is a high volume store, and he said that they haven't seen a single issue with any of the turbocharged engines (strictly related to the turbocharger) coming through the service department yet. He actually said the V6s are the most problematic (relatively speaking) of all of the Honda engines, but of course we've had V6 Hondas on the road since the '90s so there are clearly far more aged ones out there. In talking to the guy, it sounds like the most problematic ones have had VCM.


So yes, a bunch of us non-engineer amateurs can note that 1.5T UOAs do commonly have a degree of fuel dilution they ideally shouldn't; however, this is mostly in colder conditions and there are no known failures related to it. I'd buy with confidence if I were in the market.

 

[andrewp1998]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
Can you name one make/model that doesn’t require significant financial investment (even routine maintenance) after 100k??


any Toyota. the hondas have gone downhill since 99/00. The ones of the 90's were much better built!