Chevy volt is 10,000$ over priced.

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
You folks that are bashing this innovative product:
Please remember that the first of anything is usually not perfect and rather expensive.
Remember the first PC's? They weren't so hot either....see how far we've come?

Did any of those require a gov. subsidy to people to buy it?

NO. Innovative products don't need "help" from big brother to move their product.

This thing is a national disgrace and embarrassment. The leaf gets more than twice the miles for $10,000 less.



Well I guess that true if you don't count the first 10 years of computers existence. At that time the government was pretty much the only purchaser of computers.

 

[c502cid]

OK, I can understand the anger at the bailout of GM. I fully agree the taxpayer should NEVER get the responsibility of financing a for profit business. However, not one of you internet geniuses sees fit to have any kind of anger at all towards the HUGE subsidies (read: taxpayer financed money grab) the auto manufacturers, both import and domestic, get when building a new auto plant anywhere in the states. The imports have been the biggest money sucking pigs of US tax dollars and not one of you says a word.
Rant off.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
OK, I can understand the anger at the bailout of GM. I fully agree the taxpayer should NEVER get the responsibility of financing a for profit business. However, not one of you internet geniuses sees fit to have any kind of anger at all towards the HUGE subsidies (read: taxpayer financed money grab) the auto manufacturers, both import and domestic, get when building a new auto plant anywhere in the states. The imports have been the biggest money sucking pigs of US tax dollars and not one of you says a word.
Rant off.
That might be the case with the "Imports" but I don't see them with their hands out like GM had knowingly created a mess and was going downhill for years but decided to look the other way all the time corporate employees and management were riding golden parachutes into the sunset, I also don't see them telling customers what cars they will drive instead of listening to customers needs/wants, and with the exception of Toyota, I don't see them trying to sweep every problem under the carpet with "blame it on the customer" approaches, I only see productive companies keeping U.S. folk employed building quality vehicles.

I think you just want to justify the highly overpaid unionized jobs where people could afford a house on a single income and eat steaks 7 days a week versus the rest of us that need 2 incomes and have to watch our pennies a little more closely. This all came at the expense of vehicle quality IMO because you can't short a short piece of string and still tie up to far away ends!

 

[ekpolk]

Veering a good bit off course. . .

 

[edhackett]

Yup, overpriced for a Chevy. It should have been trimmed/badged as a Buick or Cadillac.

Ed

 

[Rickey]

Hmmmm.....all this bashing of a product that I dare say no one here has seen or driven at the time of this posting.

Where does such unfounded bias come from?

If I had the cash to spare I would by one as soon as it's available. I'm certain that the quality will be there. And GM needs the business to be able to pay US $ back.

"Long on bashing and short on facts" +1

Will it be cost effective? Time will tell.
I think that future versions most certainly will be cost effective.

There were plenty of progress resistors that predicted the failure of the PC revolution.
The Volt bashers will be just as wrong as they were, for many of the same reasons.

Is Volt overpriced?
Considering that it is a groundbreaking innovative new product.
NO !!

Rickey.

 

[c502cid]

Stevie, I hate the unions as much as I hate the gov't teat. Bottom line... the free market will decide if this vehicle is overpriced or not, not the collective know it alls on BITOG.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, I hate the unions as much as I hate the gov't teat. Bottom line... the free market will decide if this vehicle is overpriced or not, not the collective know it alls on BITOG.
True enough... Have to get my point in so when they vote the way I think I know they will I can say, told you so to the GM lover boys!

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
Stevie, I hate the unions as much as I hate the gov't teat. Bottom line... the free market will decide if this vehicle is overpriced or not, not the collective know it alls on BITOG.


Hate? That's pretty strong, isn't it? In truth, I doubt that the "pure" "free market" will ever get to pass judgment on this vehicle (or others like it). Like it or not, however, there are some things best left to the market alone, and others for which non-economic control works better. Shall we just go "government hands off" and remain slaves to the foreign oil bloc (who would love things to go that way)? Or we could go pure hard-core free market, as in, "we'll dispatch the police to your house to apprehend the burglars in your den -- right after your credit card number clears and the funds are confirmed in our account." Where would you draw the line?

Now, I realize as an "admin," that despite having nudged this topic back toward topic twice, now I've strayed, AND in doing so, have edged toward the P part of the RSP rule. I apologize for that...

So let's get back to the basics -- is the Volt "overpriced" at $40k-ish. I have to say YES, whether it is there with or without government assistance/interference. The whole idea of a car like this is to save money by saving on fuel (notice I didn't say "gas"). A buyer who can afford a $40k car probably doesn't have to spend a lot of time worrying about paying for gas. So what's the point? Buy a Prius for roughly 55% of what a Volt costs, and take your savings to the bank. If Chevy/GM offers a Volt for less than $30k (and with a 5th seat), and I'll buy one in a heartbeat.

Government subsidies? Please. Who cares? At $40k with only four seats, I don't care if Santa Claus is giving them away -- with four seats, it TOTALLY FAILS to meet my transport mission requirements. And the price tag is still absurd.

With a gun to my head, I'd still take a Volt over a plug-in-required Leaf, but this concept still has a lot of growing to do before I withdraw my objections. And note well that I already own TWO parallel hybrids (actually serial-parallel hybrids making them I suppose, hybrid-hybrids

), so I'm not puffing from a no-knowledge perspective.

C'mon GM -- give your POTENTIAL customers something they want AND need -- then, irrespective of the subsidies, you'll have buyers lined up in the morning at the dealers before they open. We ain't there just yet...

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: meep


6. electric grid loses nearly 90% of generated power in transmission, per numbers a decade back. I haven't see the power line technology change-- assume it's roughly the same now-- THAT would need to improve. If we can alter the way we produce electricity, so that we could lower transmission loss, the we could handle the increased electric consumption w/o increasing production waste.




You have that backwards. The power transmission system in the US delivered over 90% of the power that entered it a decade back. Losses were a bit over 7%. Losses are under 7% now.


Dude I hope you are right. 15 yrs ago in college that's what they'd said, I'm gonna go read---

-------------

Nissan Leaf: $25k (?)
+ trailer hitch $200
+ hitch platform $100
+ Honda EU2000 $1k (inverter genset)
= Chevy Volt

If I had a leaf, I would def keep a small genset in the trunk... I know a portable gennie won't keep you on the highway, but after a 2hr dinner might get your last 5 miles home...

 

[greenjp]

GMBoy's post from page 4 bears repeating:
"1. To get the technology out there. You have to start somewhere and all new technologies cost a lot at first. Anybody remember the first microwaves and VCR's?? They were expensive and now cost almost nothing. But also remember, the Volt is going to be offered as an under $400/month lease too and that is pretty competitive.

2. The Volt is a perfect HALO car for Chevrolet to suggest being green to the public and to revitalize GM's public opinion.

3. Political reasons - and many."

Remember folks, the Prius was initially a money loser for Toyota, essentially subsidized by sales of profitable gas guzzlers like the Tundra. It worked brilliantly to position Toyota as the "responsible" automaker of fuel efficient vehicles, despite the fact that nearly all of their other models were equaled, and in many cases bested, by competitors.

jeff

 

[StevieC]

Microwaves and VCR's are made in China now instead of this continent to cut down the price and they are a lot easier transported and safely transported than vehicles with big batteries via shipping containers on mega ships.

That is why VCR's / Microwaves are cheaper today and why GM will not be able to do the same with the Volt in time.

 

[LTVibe]

Chevy Volt overpriced? One dealer in California thinks they're 20 grand under-priced:

California Chevrolet dealer asking for $20,000 over Volt’s MSRP

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Microwaves and VCR's are made in China now instead of this continent to cut down the price and they are a lot easier transported and safely transported than vehicles with big batteries via shipping containers on mega ships.

That is why VCR's / Microwaves are cheaper today and why GM will not be able to do the same with the Volt in time.

I think you are off the mark again. The real reason the price came down isn't because of where it is made but because of economies of scale and the engineering being payed for. Don't worry though, maybe GM someday soon will start importing cars from China and then maybe everyone will be happy. I'm guessing not since some people seem to have an emotional based animosity towards the brand.

 

[wallyuwl]

To Stevie and ekpolk who say GM doesn't listen to what the market wants:

seems like the market is responding pretty well to the Traverse, Acadia, LaCrosse, Equinox, Terrain, CTX, and Malibu. And their trucks continue to sell pretty well. I suspect the same will be true of the Cruze. And don't forget about the Camaro - average time on the lot is under ten days still I believe, over one year after launch (and they aren't cheap, either).


The post Jeff just made (marked Aug. 3rd at 2:10 pm) is right on. And this vehicle was in the works LONG before there was even a possibility of a govt. bailout or signs GM was even in serious trouble.

 

[c502cid]

Remember folks, the Prius was initially a money loser for Toyota, essentially subsidized by sales of profitable gas guzzlers like the Tundra. It worked brilliantly to position Toyota as the "responsible" automaker of fuel efficient vehicles, despite the fact that nearly all of their other models were equaled, and in many cases bested, by competitors.



It is forbidden around here to speak if you aren't drinking the Toyota kool aid..... Toyota taking govt money "who cares", GM taking gov't money bad.

If this was about the Toyota Volt this forum would creaming themselves over the revolutionary thoughts and pure goodness it brings, led by the master kool aid drinker himself..... This forum veered into politics early and you know what, was allowed to continue. If it was a few weeks ago and the subject was Toyota...locked. I call bulldoody. Ban me, for the love of God, please ban me.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: c502cid
Remember folks, the Prius was initially a money loser for Toyota, essentially subsidized by sales of profitable gas guzzlers like the Tundra. It worked brilliantly to position Toyota as the "responsible" automaker of fuel efficient vehicles, despite the fact that nearly all of their other models were equaled, and in many cases bested, by competitors.



It is forbidden around here to speak if you aren't drinking the Toyota kool aid..... Toyota taking govt money "who cares", GM taking gov't money bad.

If this was about the Toyota Volt this forum would creaming themselves over the revolutionary thoughts and pure goodness it brings, led by the master kool aid drinker himself..... This forum veered into politics early and you know what, was allowed to continue. If it was a few weeks ago and the subject was Toyota...locked. I call bulldoody. Ban me, for the love of God, please ban me.

Okay I'm always for giving the customer what they want. So have a nice time off.

But this thread is going to get back on discussing ONLY the Volt and GM or it will be locked up with more people getting time off.

ANY comments PM me.

Bill

 

[Pesca]

Originally Posted By: meep

Nissan Leaf: $25k (?)
+ trailer hitch $200
+ hitch platform $100
+ Honda EU2000 $1k (inverter genset)
= Chevy Volt

If I had a leaf, I would def keep a small genset in the trunk... I know a portable gennie won't keep you on the highway, but after a 2hr dinner might get your last 5 miles home...


They did a study on the first users of the Leaf (prototypes) and they noticed that that fear of not reaching the chosen destination was just a phase in the accomodation of the new car.

After a while, people were more talking on "how much hours left they have in the car" than "how far I can go".
After they got confidence in the car doing the work, most of all fears disappeared.

It is like the CVT for transmissions, That will be the user that will have to change his habits of using his new toy to get the best of it.
Soon, Companies will install reserved electrical outlets space in parking lots like they reserve space for hybrid cars or for families and pregnant women. Like that you will have a space for your car closer to entrance and drive free of charge thanks to your company.
Nissan is also talking to municipalities to install fast recharge stations. they already have some in few cities like Paris and Lyon, I believe (The Mitsubishi I-Miev is already sold over there).

The Leaf is definitively a car I am looking for as soon as I am getting bored by my Rogue. It is the ideal second car in a family in my book (my longest commute to work has been 55 kms one way, so I could easily do it, not even counting on my company to recharge my battery).

Like other said, the Volt has just the inconvenients on both hybrid and EV systems, and is too overpriced for what it is.
I still hope they sell a good number of them in order other manufacturers to get in this type of cars.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: Pesca

The Leaf is definitively a car I am looking for as soon as I am getting bored by my Rogue. It is the ideal second car in a family in my book (my longest commute to work has been 55 kms one way, so I could easily do it, not even counting on my company to recharge my battery).

Like other said, the Volt has just the inconvenients on both hybrid and EV systems, and is too overpriced for what it is.
I still hope they sell a good number of them in order other manufacturers to get in this type of cars.


The Leaf can be a good second vehicle for the family. It will never suffice as a primary vehicle in the USA because of its limited range. Even with recharge stations, if you can only go 100, or even 200 (maybe in its next generation), miles at a time it won't work.

The Volt, on the other hand, can be a 20-something or empty-nester's primary (or only) vehicle with no such reservations. As with everything else, future generations will be better and cost less.

 

[Pesca]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: Pesca

The Leaf is definitively a car I am looking for as soon as I am getting bored by my Rogue. It is the ideal second car in a family in my book (my longest commute to work has been 55 kms one way, so I could easily do it, not even counting on my company to recharge my battery).

Like other said, the Volt has just the inconvenients on both hybrid and EV systems, and is too overpriced for what it is.
I still hope they sell a good number of them in order other manufacturers to get in this type of cars.


The Leaf can be a good second vehicle for the family. It will never suffice as a primary vehicle in the USA because of its limited range. Even with recharge stations, if you can only go 100, or even 200 (maybe in its next generation), miles at a time it won't work.

The Volt, on the other hand, can be a 20-something or empty-nester's primary (or only) vehicle with no such reservations. As with everything else, future generations will be better and cost less.


I totally agree with you 100%, I believe we have the same vision of the future: An hybrid as primary car (even a slight one like the Hondas) and an electric one if a second car is needed.

It will only get better as technology is improving everyday. They already working on the next generation of battery, better suited for cars than the Lithium-Ion ones.